450 Million bullets, meh... not all that much

When I first heard the Depertment of Homeland Security (DHS) put in an order to buy 450 million hollow point bullets I got a little scared. My first thought was WOW!! That's a lot of bullets, my second thought was of Hitler's SS and the continual downfall of America, and my third thought was to verify the source before I went any further.

It is in fact true...
as evidenced by ATK's media report. ATK is a Fortune 500 company and here's the report:
ATK Secures .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE)

ANOKA, Minn., March 12, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- ATK (NYSE: ATK) announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

So then I was a little concerned... the DHS doesn't really use that many bullets do they? Maybe some training, some dudes at the airport?

But after some easy research I recognized that my fear was unfounded... no imminent invasion and murdering of the American people (although that is legal now thanks to the NDAA.... )

Under the Department of Homeland Security are at least five organizations that use ammunition on a regular basis:
(Source: DHS Org Chart )
US Secret Service (USSS)
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC)
US Customs and Border Patrol
Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
US Coast Guard (USCG)

The one that REALLY caught my interest with a surprise is FLETC!

In the DHS FLETC subsite we find Facts about the firearms Division of FLETC and viola! We find:

"Training requires the use of approximately 15 million rounds of ammunition annually."

I could go on but this one single group within the DHS uses 15 million rounds annually. I don't think we really need to be worried about 450 million over 5 years for the entirety of the DHS. We might wanna be angry about our tax money being used for this, or the ramifications that America is a warring, hegemonic, greedy nation, but I don't really see this as a sign of an incoming hometown invasion sequence.

I agree entirely and thanks for starting the thread for perspective on this. I've seen a few threads mention the number like they are arming up for an invasion or police state.

Well.. if DHS was just the TSA, I'd be scared alright....but like you note, the rolled half the Federal Government under the new agency they made after 9/11... Coast Guard, Secret Service, as well as TSA and the other goons we know so well.

Indeed.. 450 million rounds isn't that much when it's so many BIG agencies all drawing from that same stack.

reply to post by Thermo Klein


this is an up to 5 year contract. Starting at just ONE year. turn that 15 million into 100 million and I might find your explanation more fitting. Not that I think you are wrong, but ya know..

"a base of 12 months with 4 additional option years and a max of 450 million rounds"

I wonder if they expect the price of ammunition to go up in the next few years and they want to get it while it's still cheaper? This seems like a good motive to me.

reply to post by Dustytoad


the 15 million is for ONLY the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center [FLETC]. All the other groups can take from that 450 million but figure this training center alone counts for 75 million over 5 years.

Edited to Add:

The ammunition includes lead projectiles and reduced hazard (environmentally friendly) ammunition.
The reduced hazard ammunition accounts for approximately 70 percent of the ammunition expended for training.

well... maybe not

Nice digging! This never concerned me because 1)Bush admin did nothing to secure the homeland except attack our rights, Katrina showed us that. 2)This is govt spending the nutters would let Obama get away with, maybe hoping the economy gets a little boost or a couple of jobs.

Well considering how many rounds I go through each year and I am only one person, I was never really worried.
The OS just sounded like a fluff piece to see if the American public was feeling froggy.

reply to post by Thermo Klein


Nice bit of research that I haven't seen posted yet when talking about the large order of bullets. Now my only concern is this, the training center I imagine is the one who shoot off the most bullets annually being there are a training center and they only use15 million rounds a year but the order was 450 million rounds. So unless they don't plan on buying bullets for quite some time then I would still be concerned but not paranoid. I wonder how many bullets the Secret Service, Coast Guard, Feds, use annually.

After reading all the threads concerning this issue, I kept thinking to myself. "What's the big deal?"

People that carry weapons have to train,,,and they are pistol rounds, only good for close range..

If the American people decided "enuf' was enf'", those pistol rounds wouldn't equate to $#!t.

Lots of rifles out there.

If it's one shot one kill, then they could kill 450 million people. Hollow points are not designed for target practice but to kill and maim. Its very scary times we live in.

My thoughts on this are simple. The DHS needed a new ammo contract. Their previous one must have run out. Now over the years all these agencies have been using a mix of 9mm, .40, and .45. Now that they are all grouped together they have all phased into the .40 caliber DHS wide. That easily explains this new contract in my opinion. It is actually a smart move in my opinion. They are just buying in bulk that's all. We as citizens have that same right. At least for the time being.

reply to post by TDawgRex


I recall seeing a story about 175 million rifle shells too but I don't have a link or solid verification.

reply to post by LDragonFire


Actually hollow points are designed to transfer the majority of their energy into the target. Does it cause a lot of damage? Sure do, but FMJs and similar jacketed round go THROUGH things. The whole point is to have the round stop at the target instead of continuing through to hit bystanders.