Two Portlanders refuse to testify before grand jury after FBI raid

reply to post by Renegade2283
I belong to a certain electrical union here, and they gave me a bumper sticker that reads "Keep Portland Wired". Sort of a spoof on the "Keep Portland Weird" stickers you see everywhere here.

reply to post by VikingWarlord


Haha, interesting. Did you know that "Keep Portland Weird". Initially started with "Keep Austin Weird". We just kind of adapted it. Though I think it fits Portland better.

It is below the FBI, and I support their exercising of rights afforded to them. The fact they've been occupying homes that don't belong to them doesn't help their image and situation, but the fact is if this is the stuff the FBI is focusing on in America these days, we have it pretty good here lately.

They should consider themselves lucky considering FBI activity in recent years infiltrating like-minded groups and ultimately setting them up on terrorism charges. The alternative for them is chasing after Animal Liberation Front members - They have to justify their funding somehow.

reply to post by Sek82

You would think their efforts could be focused somewhere else, say REAL terrorist cells undoubtedly operating within our borders. Or how about assisting ICE in detaining some cartel members that are cruising around recruiting in the south.

reply to post by VikingWarlord
Well said, meanwhile drug runners are roaming freely to and fro down south with guns and cash in addition. Other than that, I'm not sure there's a whole lot to do for them to do in the domestic terrorism department, honestly.

reply to post by VikingWarlord
Probably just an excuse to use all their toys and get some good practice in for when the hammer comes down. During the the Sherwood cruise-in (car show) the local police paraded around their new LRAD unit along with their armored rigs. They had kids climbing in and out of their patty wagon, it was a little disturbing. All these vehicles were for a town that has almost no crime, and a population of only 20,000. Why would they need all of this gear?

Remember, the government is we the people. When anarchists go against the government in a wet dream to making it fall, they really go against we the people, in hopes of enslaving we the people to another form of government. Their flavor looks to be communist. It is the governments sworn duty as representatives of we the people to protect we the people from seditious conspiracy and insurrection.

You all act as if this is a travesty, no it is LAW and has been in one form or another since WWII or earlier.

18 USC § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

18 USC § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

reply to post by TinfoilTP
I'm no fan of communism, that doesn't work. However...
"... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...." Thomas Jefferson.

He then goes on to caution..


"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. ..." Thomas Jefferson.

reply to post by VikingWarlord


You can argue that till you are blue in the face but if you possess the literature and conspire with at least one other person you will be arguing it with appeals to the courts for the next twenty years. Nothing would save you except an actual change of government, which the commies won't be finding enough support to ever do in this Country in our lifetimes so waste your life on a lost cause, its yours to waste.

reply to post by VikingWarlord


I believe the issue is not free speach, I believe they are looking to link suspects to this.

articles.latimes.com...

The speach itself is not illegal, but it is being used to link these people to vandalism. Much like owning a gun is not illegal, but they can test to see if your gun was used in a crime. We will have to see how it pans out.

reply to post by TinfoilTP


I am totally against communism.

Apparently it is about Vandalism. I am just at a loss why the FBI got involved rather than the police. Can somebody riddle me that?

What a pathetic pile of crap this is. This has nothing to do with revolutionaries. What chance do homeless squatters have a starting a revolution in the United States? Zero! The average American could not tell the difference between socialist, fascist and democratic. If there is no air conditioning and wifi they won't get off their lazy asses even if their couch is moved into the gas oven.

Some overzealous a-hole city attorney is probably more concerned about real estate values. With the huge homeless population and congress unable to do a damn thing the pigs are worried about citizens taking matters into their own hands and moving into the vacant houses that the banks are intentionally keeping vacant to create artificial shortage and drive prices back up.

This post also goes to the weenies afraid of being on a list. Would you rather be locked up with no rights? Because that's where we may be heading.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
Remember, the government is we the people. When anarchists go against the government in a wet dream to making it fall, they really go against we the people, in hopes of enslaving we the people to another form of government. Their flavor looks to be communist. It is the governments sworn duty as representatives of we the people to protect we the people from seditious conspiracy and insurrection.

You all act as if this is a travesty, no it is LAW and has been in one form or another since WWII or earlier.

18 USC § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

18 USC § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of
existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

Am I the last sane person on ATS? This post sounds like it was written by the ministry of Propaganda. Most of this post is full of mealy mouthed apologists for fascism. Wtf?

reply to post by VikingWarlord


Communist thought process or not, they still have a RIGHT to their opinion and to express that opinion. That is insured in the Constitution of the United States. I may not agree with what they spew, but I will darn sure stand up for their right to say it.

call me whatever. I would die by Gestapo.

How can people in the FBI do this crap? I wonder if they are foreigners. I still can't imagine an FBI agent (American?) doing this and thinking....what a great job I am doing....my kids will be proud of people like me that transformed a democracy into a living hell.

I know they are smart.....cant they see the logical conclusion to what they are doing? The blood that will flow.

Are they retarded? Their family will suffer in the same world. I wish I could jump forward and take snap shots of the living hell that will be this country to show these morons.

There is no good that can come from this.

Hey FBI......you are traitors. You should be ashamed of the worthless POS that you have become.
Your country HATES YOU and hopes secretly that you and yours suffer. You are worse than genocidal Nazi´s.
You know better. Which means you willingly accept to turn your back on your country.

So what? now you arrest me, torture me and my family? then what? feel better? Oh no then it's back to doing that to the millions of YOUR PEOPLE. A dog knows better than you.

FBI.....may terrible things happen to you professionally as well as personally.

TRAITORS. Your mothers and fathers would be proud of the traitors you have become. Your teachers, coaches....they would pat you on the back.
Pathetic.

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
call me whatever. I would die by Gestapo.

How can people in the FBI do this crap? I wonder if they are foreigners. I still can't imagine an FBI agent (American?) doing this and thinking....what a great job I am doing....my kids will be proud of people like me that transformed a democracy into a living hell.

I know they are smart.....cant they see the logical conclusion to what they are doing? The blood that will flow.

Are they retarded? Their family will suffer in the same world. I wish I could jump forward and take snap shots of the living hell that will be this country to show these morons.

There is no good that can come from this.

Hey FBI......you are traitors. You should be ashamed of the worthless POS that you have become.
Your country HATES YOU and hopes secretly that you and yours suffer. You are worse than genocidal Nazi´s.
You know better. Which means you willingly accept to turn your back on your country.

So what? now you arrest me, torture me and my family? then what? feel better? Oh no then it's back to doing that to the millions of YOUR PEOPLE. A dog knows better than you.

FBI.....may terrible things happen to you professionally as well as personally.

TRAITORS. Your mothers and fathers would be proud of the traitors you have become. Your teachers, coaches....they would pat you on the back.
Pathetic.

edit on 3-8-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)

No, they are just enforcing the law. See my post above quoting a few laws.

reply to post by TinfoilTP


animal farm type laws that change at the whim of a few to interfere in the lives of many.
Literature is protected....see the constitution for a reference. Your laws are crap. People can't talk or print things....then they don't live in a democracy...is that it? We are not a democracy anymore?

Please explain how the laws you quote reflect a democratic society?

If people that grew up in a democracy see your laws they WILL find issue with them. They did not give their consent to those laws....no one did. That will bring trouble. If they really wanted to change the very nature of the government they should have legally asked and gotten a vote for it...democratically. They did not, so they acted illegally and expect people to not follow their example.

You can say mass. A democratic populace will not accept your laws...even if they be written....with words....on paper....they don't reflect the will of a people who still believe they GIVE consent to be governed. Not that the government governs with their consent or not.

Hey if you like the fact that in 20years your kids will not have what you had growing up...then fine.

Look to other countries where the freedom of press is illegal and where people can't voice their concerns out of fear. They have terrorists who instead of talking about things they feel are a problem instead act on those feelings because they can't talk about them and have them addressed.


That is the country you are giving your kids. A place where human frustration or dissent are punished...Yeah, they will just forget all about it. Works every time.

They don't have a magic formula. They will crack down on the people....and create the next generation terrorist.

That does happen every time. No matter how hard or smart the rule of authority is. Nice legacy for our kids. I am sure that won't get out of hand. Once in office people become saints. They never abuse their people.

reply to post by JayFlores
This is where there is controversy, they supposedly vandalized government property and squatted in houses. Does that activity warrant investigation by the FBI? I just don't like the fact that in the warrant they mentioned going after literature that they possessed. That is a bit much.