Toward Reclaiming Our Birthright, Anarchists Unite!

A relief to witness other Anarchist here,

seems almost taboo as of now to be an anarchist,

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by MikhailBakunin

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
1)"uniting" anarchists is an oxymoron.
2) anarchy is an evil thing, in every way. It should not be strived for.

So the anarchists who fought for women's and black's rights during the early 1900's, when giving women and blacks equal rights was unfathomable, were .... not really there? And the direct action towards the red army pre-ww2.... evil?

I'm sorry but maybe you've been fed propaganda so much throughout your lifetime that now you're a walking billboard for the true evil.

I understand a lot of the true literature that shows you the true meaning of "the cause" is oppressed and diluted....
to help you get a better grasp of what you're attempting to portray in your post....

do some research, I recommend.... Our Daily

Bleed

edit on 3-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: add something

1)those were not anachists. Once again, you all are proving you don't know what anarchy is.
2)saying " do some research" is weak. I know all about anarchy. I've lived it. And the majority who advocate it have NEVER experienced anything even close. If they had, they would not advocate it.

Whats with your infatuation with lists and telling people what they don't know and what you do? I'm sensing a form of cockiness or perhaps a big number person? Well, I hope that works out well for you.

Alright, the anarchist is the freedom fighter who stands up against tyranny and government (they go hand-in-hand). I say "do some research" because anarchy or more accurately put anarchism is not.... evil or let's run around and break stuff, the whole viking thing. Anarchism takes an evolved state of man. It takes the mutual understanding of all apart of "the cause" to work together and everyone plays your part. It is the next step of man and it will happen when the time is ready.

What I'm noticing in modern society is the fabricated notion that "anarchy" is an absolute state. This is entirely, 100% false. As long as I've lived and you will live there will be governments, therefore anarchism is a slow progression, striving for absolute freedom. Before you can understand anarchism you must understand we will never find an absolute free state of being. To be a true anarchist your mindset must be of the post-conventional state (like the hippie movement and let's work together for others).

I have an excerpt for you since you've proven to be illiterate in this department.

This is from a guide for those interested in the politics of an anarchist (not your 3rd world country... rape, pillage, and plunder... but from a philosophically educated perspective, with actually valid points towards the matter)
Berkman
"Chapter 20: What is Anarchism?
"CAN YOU tell us briefly," your friend asks, "what Anarchism really is?"

I shall try. In the fewest words, Anarchism teaches that we can live in a society where there is no compulsion of any kind.

A life without compulsion naturally means liberty; it means freedom from being forced or coerced, a chance to lead the life that suits you best.

You cannot lead such a life unless you do away with the institutions that curtail your liberty and interfere with your life, the conditions that compel you to act differently from the way you really would like to.

What are those institutions and conditions? Let us see what we have to do away with in order to secure a free and harmonious life. Once we know what has to be abolished and what must take its place, we shall also find the way to do it.

What must be abolished, then, to secure liberty?

First of all, of course, the thing that invades you most, that handicaps or prevents your free activity; the thing that interferes with your liberty and compels you to live differently from what would be your own choice.

That thing is government.

Take a good look at it and you will see that government is the greatest invader; more than that, the worst criminal man has ever known of. It fills the world with violence, with fraud and deceit, with oppression and misery. As a great thinker once said, "its breath is poison." It corrupts everything it touches.

"Yes, government means violence and it is evil," you admit; "but can we do without it?"

That is just what we want to talk over. Now, if I should ask you whether you need government, I'm sure you would answer that you don't, but that it is for the others that it is needed.

But if you should ask any one of those "others," he would reply as you do: he would say that he does not need it, but that it is necessary "for the others."

Why does every one think that he can be decent enough without the policeman, but that the club is needed for "the others"?

"Property is theft!" "Anarchy is order." "Whoever puts his hand on me to govern me is a usurper & a tyrant. I declare him my enemy." WHOEVER PUTS HIS HAND ON ME TO GOVERN ME IS A USURPER AND A TYRANT. I DECLARE HIM MY ENEMY.

recollectionbooks.com...

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
A relief to witness other Anarchist here,

seems almost taboo as of now to be an anarchist,

The whole Hot Topic thing and the punk movement from the 70's have all played a huge role in fabricating and filtering anarchism into this half-baked notion that anarchism is not direct action against state and government but a reason to vandalize, dehumanize, and in a distasteful fashion, criminalize. People, mostly kids filled with teen angst, use this distorted view, on the once respected ideal of living, as some make believe cloak. At one point, the true anarchists actually displayed great honor and intimacy in their romance for "the cause". I picture those martyrs as having great tact and class.

"Alright, the anarchist is the freedom fighter who stands up against tyranny and government (they go hand-in-hand). I say "do some research" because anarchy or more accurately put anarchism is not.... evil or let's run around and break stuff, the whole viking thing. Anarchism takes an evolved state of man. It takes the mutual understanding of all apart of "the cause" to work together and everyone plays your part. It is the next step of man and it will happen when the time is ready. "

You guys showed up!

Thanks, and rather than argue what we already know, it may be more fruitful to acknowledge we're on the same page and discuss ideas to promote and expand the cause...education is certainly part of that, but in my view explaining why governance is the evil it is, that authority is a myth and a bad one at that, these approaches would tend to bear more fruit than defending "anarchy" (although, I very much agree and enjoyed reading these, especially the one quoted above!)
Most people rarely think of anarchy, but discuss politics daily...the wedge in, in a sense is deconstructing the lie of authority...I recently realized that the extent to which most people expect an "expert" or "authority" to be both competent to the job, and responsible to the parties relying upon them is so out of line with people's daily experiences (never mind a crisis!) that this can open a person's mind, merely by pointing this out and EXPANDING it to include other authorities...a general level of incompetence that even your hardened politico can recognize may the best argument against all forms of authority.

What do you think? Plus what did you think of the STOP re-think it, idea?

Thanks so much for your input. Serious anarchists, I'm actually excited.

Please flag. Not that I care about flags, just attracting more like-minded individuals before the topic slips off the first few pages. Thanks.

reply to post by joechip


I appreciate it, man. I, however, try not to peg myself as an anarchist, but do admit to having anarchist sympathies and really enjoy reading about the real ones who've put their neck on the line for the common good of man and utilize media outlets like conventions and rallies displaying amazing speeches or lectures.

I wish I could do something productive for "the cause"....

Anyone who makes plans for after the revolution is a reactionary. Mikhail Bakunin

You see, I recently developed an "unknown" (my ass, covered up more like it, been known since 2007) disease, and went to a series of different medical "professionals" who deferred, one after the other, to the previous "medical authority's" diagnosis (or lack of) to not only end up sicker, but having my basic sanity questioned. This woke me up, as I grew sicker, to the fact that I had to solve this on my own or die.

I didn't want to die, of course, but the implications hit me like a tidal wave...this disease is NEW, caused almost certainly by genetic modification of our foods, and some authority (actually many different ones) gave the okay for it...are you beginning to smile, I hope so, because as sick as I was, I did.

I realized, as a lifelong anarchist, this could be the key, along with an organized campaign of educational efforts, to finally exposing the lie of "authority" once and for all and in such a way that it would never come back!

A horrific disease that disfigures people, that people generally hide in shame (irrational, but understandable) and that ends most often either in death, institutionalization, or both. Caused by the arrogance of Big Business in cooperation with Government...the arrogance of "authority."

And its not just a local phenomenon, either, this is worldwide...I need anarchists (my old friends were worse than useless) to join in an effort I believe could actually change things for the better.

I spent most of my time researching a "cure" (I'm not cured, but much, much, better) but in the back of my mind the whole time was this nagging idea that this was actually a good thing, at least a good thing to have happened to me. Because I know for a fact there is a cover-up. I know for a fact if this got out and people believed it (many have it and don't believe it) it would blow up so hard in the the authorities faces, there would be no possible "apology" no possible way for the average man and woman to "forgive and forget" and continue with business as usual.

But the educational campaign is crucial, which is why I started with that, with those ideas...lend your own, let's craft a brilliant, brilliant, media campaign so the transition can occur with peace and not more horrors.

Thanks so much, this is all I really care about, means everything to me...

reply to post by joechip


what exactly needs to be done by anarchists?
I'm sorry for your new discovery... that's pretty crazy

reply to post by MikhailBakunin


Hopefully my edited, added onto explanation answered your question. If not, in short, # is gonna hit the fan and soon. Wouldn't it be great if that # was the fertilizer for a new world of peace and freedom and no more false authority?

Only anarchists get it, that's why I need them (besides the fact that they are often the smartest people in the room)

Not just the smartest, but also almost never cynical (cynicism is the death of the mind) are generally very open-minded and by definition, think out of the box!

" WHOEVER PUTS HIS HAND ON ME TO GOVERN ME IS A USURPER AND A TYRANT. I DECLARE HIM MY ENEMY."

This is already understood by anarchists, it has to be explained to everyone else, those on the left and the right and the middle...you have been usurped. By Government that had neither the wisdom, morals, nor competence it claimed, and it ruined the lives of millions...."see with your own eyes" what the arrogance of "authority" causes...The authority of Big Business that feeds you and entertains you (AND MOST IMPORTANTLY ENSLAVES YOU in its farce of a lack-based economic system), the authority of Government which "regulates" (haha) that previous entity, and the authority of the Medical Establishment that hid it from you for FIVE YEARS, and put thousands in mental institutions, denying their plight, and their basic sanity to save face....

Forgivable? I think not.

And yes, that excites me. That is what I've been waiting for all my life. They hid HIV/AIDS as well, but not for as long, and they had all kinds of manipulative tricks, including widespread homophobia to help in that effort...also, hard to prove they caused it...this one, not the same puppy at all

But without the proper set up, this will simply be another bait and switch, one party will blame the other, etc...It has to be explained carefully that THERE ARE NO REAL AUTHORITIES! That no one has the right to govern another, nor the competence, nor the wisdom...that the whole thing is a sham...all of it. Then perhaps we can craft a non-defining social order, take back our planet, etc.
.

reply to post by MikhailBakunin


1)I'm sorry that you don't like the way that I format my posts....no, scratch that, I'm not. Deal with it, or don't.

2)I have no infatuation with numbers or lists, I do, however, enjoy calling out flat out falsehoods when people post them.

3)You sense cockiness through the internet? Wow...impressive.



4)Here, look at this:

a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

www.merriam-webster.com...

5)Care to show me where I said ANYTHING about running around "breaking things"?

6)What you are missing here is that "anarchy" or "anarchism" are utopian ideas. In sentiment, they sound great. In practice, it CANNOT work. You talk about all buying into it for it to work. Which in itself would make it not anarchy. See, if EVERYONE falls in line with the theory, then that theory is now the governing rule, which is the antithesis of anarchy.

7)Ahhh yes, the old straw man "since you are illiterate". Can you not state you case without the juvenile and sad tactics?

8)Again, tell me where I said ANYTHING about "rape, pillage and plunder". The fact that you have to make up things and put words in my mouth tells me all I need to know about your stance.

9)The biggest problem I have with anarchists is their hypocrissy. "Your form of governing is wrong. Mine is better". Do you not realize that it is a different side to the same coin? That you are not advocating anarchy? That all you are really doing is advocating a new form of governance?

10)you said:
"Yes, government means violence and it is evil," you admit; "but can we do without it?"

Can you show me where I said anything of the sort? Seriously, stop making things up.

11)you said: That is just what we want to talk over. Now, if I should ask you whether you need government, I'm sure you would answer that you don't, but that it is for the others that it is needed.

You are wrong. I would not say that. I am not that naive.

12) The biggest question here, one that you have avoided, is this: Have you EVER experienced ANYTHING remotely close to true anarchy? That you advocate it tells me that you havent.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


" In practice, it CANNOT work."

In practice, in reality rather, it worked for the majority of our time on the planet, nearly 200,000 years. If you have no perspective, you have no way to see the world but the tiny ethnocentric, historiocentric (pretty sure that's a neolog) box you've imprisoned yourself in....an alienated box by definition, and just because you cannot see out of it doesn't mean many of us don't see beyond the shadows on the cave walls, (to bastardize Plato and mix metaphors)

Go away, please, this thread is not about debating the merits or validity of anarchism, or any other silly arguments. This thread has a purpose and you serve it in no way.

Originally posted by joechip
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

" In practice, it CANNOT work."

In practice, in reality rather, it worked for the majority of our time on the planet, nearly 200,000 years. If you have no perspective, you have no way to see the world but the tiny ethnocentric, historiocentric (pretty sure that's a neolog) box you've imprisoned yourself in....an alienated box by definition, and just because you cannot see out of it doesn't mean many of us don't see beyond the shadows on the cave walls, (to bastardize Plato and mix metaphors)

Go away, please, this thread is not about debating the merits or validity of anarchism, or any other silly arguments. This thread has a purpose and you serve it in no way.

edit on 3-8-2012 by joechip because: to add.

edit on 3-8-2012 by joechip because: to add

1)It worked? REALLY? The ONLY reason we have governments today is because of anarchy rule, and the fact THAT IT DID NOT WORK.

2)More silly little labels and accusations. Again, can you not debate a topic without resorting to infantile tactics?

3)Claiming that "i cannot see outside of the box" does not make it so. More generalizations and accusations about a person you know nothing about. Sad. Just sad.

4)No, I wont go away. Its a free board. If you dont like what I have to say, report it or ignore it. Saying "go away" is nothing but playground whining.

Why is it that you guys wont answer my question? Have any of you EVER experience anarchy?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Listen, if you want to start a "debate thread" title it something like Anarchy is a Sham, or whatever you like and in my spare time I'll be glad to pop in occasionally and rip you to metaphorical shreds...really, I'd be happy to...this is NOT that thread.

You are both in spirit and letter off-topic. Keep on with it, if you must I shall ignore you.

Originally posted by joechip
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Listen, if you want to start a "debate thread" title it something like Anarchy is a Sham, or whatever you like and in my spare time I'll be glad to pop in occasionally and rip you to metaphorical shreds...really, I'd be happy to...this is NOT that thread.

So stop replying and report me. Go ahead. Wait and see if the posts are removed.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


One reply more, that's all you get here, but it should be sufficient to show even a witless dolt like yourself that you are outmatched:

"
1)It worked? REALLY? The ONLY reason we have governments today is because of anarchy rule, and the fact THAT IT DID NOT WORK."

The only reason we have governments today is not at all because of "anarchy rule", which is a nonsensical phrase by the way, but rather governments formed along with organized religion in response to the ability to store food, which means POWER, which came about with the advent of agriculture....

You think you can debate, but you can't. Not for real anyway.

"Several factors flowed together to create the unexpected development of
civilization. While the establishment of agriculture did not guarantee further
change, it did ultimately co tribute to change by encouraging new forms of
social organization. Settled agriculture, as opposed to slash-and-burn
varieties, usually implied some forms of property so that land could be
identified as belonging to a family, a village, or a landlord. Only with
property was there incentive to introduce improvements, such as wells or
irrigation measures, that could be monopolized by those who created them or
left to their heirs. But property meant the need for new kinds of laws and
enforcement mechanisms, which in turn implied more extensive government. Here
agriculture could create some possibilities for trade and could spur
innovation - new kinds of regulations and some government figures who could
enforce them."
history-world.org...

That's how you debate, punk, now piss off.

reply to post by joechip


For the record, you've been reported for T&C violations.

1)Again, why is it that you guys cannot discuss without name calling and ad hom attacks? They do not help your argument.

2)If anarchy worked so well for so long, why is it not still in effect? how did those societies fair? What level was famine at in said societies? How high was crime in said societies? What kind of technological advancements did those societies make? Ooops....that pesky logic thing again.

3)You just sealed your own fate in this "debate" and you dont even know it. Read your quote again. It speaks specifically of the reasons why anarchy CANNOT work in this day and age.

And, the 800lb gorilla in the room that you continue to choose to ignore: HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE EXPERIENCED TRUE ANARCHY? Its not even a hard question.

So, since you all choose to avoid the question, I think its safe to say that none of you advocating anarchy have ever experienced it. Which is generally the case with anarchy. Only those without experience would advocate it. Anyone who has lived it knows how bad it truly is.

If you mean "punk" and "dolt" I believe both have been clearly illustrated by your own behavior on the thread and I'm not at all afraid...

I knew you couldn't debate...you don't get to just bypass the way in which my response invalidated your argument and simply attack it directly, you must defend your original statement IN LIGHT of my response, then you may attack it...otherwise the point goes unchallenged and is won by me.

Really this isn't a debate thread...start one if you wish, I'll be happy and I mean this, to drop by daily and school you.

But nevermind...it's your world, right, crap all over the place, have fun..stupid is fine, but the intellectual dishonesty you display is not worth anyone's time...you have now been ignored. So I won't be reading anymore of this tripe and I recommend that others do the same. Thou art a TROLL

ps...Won 2nd place state my first year btw, on a split decision against seniors from the same school debate team, our school was legendary...won 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. that year at state championships...
.

Originally posted by joechip
If you mean "punk" and "dolt" I believe both have been clearly illustrated by your own behavior on the thread and I'm not at all afraid...

I knew you couldn't debate...you don't get to just bypass the way in which my response invalidated your argument and simply attack it directly, you must defend your original statement IN LIGHT of my response, then you may attack it...otherwise the point goes unchallenged and is won by me.

Really this isn't a debate thread...start one if you wish, I'll be happy and I mean this, to drop by daily and school you.

You didnt debate. You posted a quote, one which supports my statement, not yours. This is sad. Go ahead, carry on with your "only respond if you agree" thread. You should be thanking me for keeping it alive this long anyway.

That said, I recommend you join your high school debate team, to learn what a debate actually is.

I do notice, though, that you CONTINUE to ignore my question, which is an answer in itself.