"Why Do Creationists Get Laughed At?"

In the debates I have had thus far in this section of the fora, I have come across a lot of the typical pseudoscience and fallacy arguments concerning science and creationism. Most of which are direct appeals to ignorance with both the producer of the material and the reader knowing they are. So why not dispel much of it with just a few videos:

This video discusses Creationist logic and use of math as some means to debunk evolution:


Ben Stein on Darwin and Evolution fallacy arguments:


Creationist arguments to genetic information / probability and the Dover Trial


Creationist arguments on decay rates, black body radiation ect.


The amount of information in the human genome, the increasing of knowledge, and the practical application of knowledge through the scientific method:


Creationist lack of understanding of science, and knowledge gained through science.


Darwin and the Cambrian Explosion


Oh the precise argument!:


And I love the probability and chance fallacy argument:


Creationists quote mining:


Oh yes..the Fine tuning argument (never mind how it's fine tuned for consciousness to exist) Thunderfoot does his own good job of trashing that dishonest argument as well:



Oh the flood myth and the fossil record:




Creationist Geology:

reply to post by TheJackelantern


What are your opinions on all of these videos? Or even your opinion on why creationists get laughed at??

I am a creationist and I really could care less who laughs at me for my beliefs.....I do the same laughing right back at the people doing the laughing in the first place!

I am interested to hear your opinion on the topic, and will watch the videos when I get home....

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by TheJackelantern

 

What are your opinions on all of these videos? Or even your opinion on why creationists get laughed at??

I am a creationist and I really could care less who laughs at me for my beliefs.....I do the same laughing right back at the people doing the laughing in the first place!

I am interested to hear your opinion on the topic, and will watch the videos when I get home....

I am an atheist and believe in evolution, and even I agree with you on what you're saying..

Well I am not opposed to watching a wall of videos totaling 115min...

how about a bit of description accompany each video?

What are your opinions on all of these videos? Or even your opinion on why creationists get laughed at??

The opinions are not meaningful here (yes a position that needs to be dishonest is a joke of its own), the facts discussed are. And are you saying we should respect such dishonesty or destruction of the education system into pure ignorance? It's the title of the videos, and they show why the Creationist movement is intellectually dishonest and espouses false information, quote mines science, and preys on human weaknesses and ignorance to inject it's ideology and control as a cult. Creationists are not intellectually honest as the position begins with an appeal to ignorance, an absolute negative, and rides a lot on appeals to such things as emotion and false authority arguments.

I am a creationist and I really could care less who laughs at me for my beliefs.....I do the same laughing right back at the people doing the laughing in the first place!

That's great, and that accomplishes nothing intellectually. And this is why the content is more important than an emotional appeal. And anyone that finds honor in dishonesty, has no intellectual integrity regarding these subjects.

Originally posted by benrl
Well I am not opposed to watching a wall of videos totaling 115min...

how about a bit of description accompany each video?

I did for some of them..And some have mixed content so I will have to take a few to do so..

reply to post by TheJackelantern


Most of life (for most of us currently) comes down to one very simple thing which is lack of awareness and therefore lack of accountability.

For example somebody who is against the idea that we are creating our experience can also within this perspective not at all like the idea of not having control over his destiny. This means that this person does not like the idea of creating his experience but at the same time does not like the idea of not having control over (creating) his experience. UM...

Also when we take a look at it those who are most against us being creators the people who are the most against it are most of the time the ones who are the most controlling. Control is an unconscious flavor of creation. It is you dictating experience. This is creating. The only difference is that control allows us to create without being aware or accountable that we are most likely controlling others and things that we really should not be interfering with.

When we start taking an honest look at these things (and gasp become accountable for what we are really thinking/ doing) we will have to see the absurdity in all of these conflicting perspectives/ actions. And then make a conscious decision on where we truly stand. And then (again gasp) actually become accountable for what it is that we are creating.

There are entire pages with the exact same videos about evolutionists... anyone can do this, so what's yer point?
LINK

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
There are entire pages with the exact same videos about evolutionists... anyone can do this, so what's yer point?
LINK

LOL you did watch the reply to those videos..right? ... Hence those videos you're referencing are again dishonest appeals to ignorance just as outlined above. In fact they repeat the same fallacy arguments as discussed already. That was a very poor link..

reply to post by TheJackelantern


Responses like this are why I don't even waste my time with some people! When asked a question in return, which happens to be the same question you are asking us, you just get defensive and take to personal attacks....

Thanks for saving me time of following this thread!!

While at the moment I have no comments to add I will be watching these videos at home.

posting so I remember to watch this thread.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by TheJackelantern

 

Responses like this are why I don't even waste my time with some people! When asked a question in return, which happens to be the same question you are asking us, you just get defensive and take to personal attacks....

Thanks for saving me time of following this thread!!

You're trying to drag this into a morality game vs addressing the content of the videos. So your issue is the use of ridicule of dishonesty? Ok noted.., now perhaps addressing the content? And btw, I gave you an honest reply to your question. You didn't seem to like the answer :/ Was I supposed to reply and suddenly show total respect and agreement to Creationist dishonesty? Where exactly did you expect me to go with your question? If you want my opinion on the science used to address Creationist pseudoscience, it's accurate, and the videos in general are accurate of the creationist movement regarding science.

All that tripe has been regurgitated thousands of times already. Nothing new to see here...

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
All that tripe has been regurgitated thousands of times already. Nothing new to see here...

Ok, then close this section of the forum since it's all been done thousands of times.. Oh wait, not everyone that flies by this forum has the time or has gone through the entire forum.. Interesting, it gets hostile soon as you expose and start addressing the lack of intellectual integrity of the creationist movement. So if this has all been discussed a thousand times here, why are you still here in this section of the forum?

I do not believe in creation or alien intervention or evolution, instead I am open to the possibility of any of them being the case.

However, let's discuss "ignorance" for a minute.

People far too often believe they have it all figured out, when in reality it's impossible to figure anything out 100%. No human is perfect.

Laughing at someone is not proper or fair debate, and does not grant your side of the argument any favors or benefits.

There are many valid points and questions raised by all sides of this issue, but far too often many are rejected by members of one side or another simply because it goes against their beliefs.

And yes, I am convinced that creationists, evolutionists, etc, are highly religious in their preconceived notions and convince themselves they are totally right about things that happened millions of years ago which we have no way of knowing for sure.

A fossil is only proof that a fossil exists.
How it got there, how it was formed, and 'what it means', are entirely up to interpretation and many people will see different aspects of it.

What we really need to do, is stop ridiculing the people who think differently than we do, and start taking all suggestions into consideration so that we may have a broader view of the possible interpretations. By being open to all possibilities, we can actually have a chance to find the truth.

If you close yourself off to any possibility, finding the truth will begin to become near to impossible.

By the way, Ben Stein raises excellent points in his documentary. I am not usually a fan of Stein but his film was very eye opening and I support his statements that Intellectual Freedom is paramount to ever hoping to advance towards a more civilized society.

Originally posted by TheJackelantern
Interesting, it gets hostile soon as you expose and start addressing the lack of intellectual integrity of the creationist movement.

Both sides do it.
Anyone coming from a neutral perspective is aware of this.

This very statement in itself which I quoted from you, infers that only one side of this debate plays dirty. Totally untrue.

I feel like you are playing dirty right now by pretending your side doesn't get hostile when questioned.
We know both sides have been very hostile and unfair and very few debates are proper or educational.

I implore you to take action against your own point of view and strive to take other people's points of view more seriously.

There is no way to know what really went down millions of years ago, unless you have a time machine. And even then you could be in a separate parallel universe time-line, so it's still impossible to know 100%.

Assuming that you know what really happened is just an assumption and doesn't really justify the bias one-sided nature of this whole debate.

reply to post by muzzleflash

There are those who accept science and those who don't accept science because it conflicts with their personal religious/spiritual views. That's it. One side has the deck of cards and is ready to play, the other doesn't. The notion that there are two "sides" to the "debate" is a false dichotomy put forth by creationists and other ideologically driven people who have an agenda. There is no middle ground: you either understand the theory of evolution or you don't/won't.

Laughing at someone is not proper or fair debate, and does not grant your side of the argument any favors or benefits.

No this is laughing at the need of dishonesty to project ones ideology... These people know they are being dishonest. I don't have a problem with ignorance, I have a problem with ignorance that is intentional.. There's a difference. The ignorant are just in position of not knowing and are open to learning. The intentional ignorant is not and rides their entire beliefs on such subjects through dishonesty.. Granted the videos are a bit harsh, but they do a good job of demonstrating what I am referring to.

There are many valid points and questions raised by all sides of this issue, but far too often many are rejected by members of one side or another simply because it goes against their beliefs.

Except one side rests its position on empirical evidence and what the facts are. Hence they don't form their reasoning based on what they want to believe while intentionally ignoring all evidence contrary... There is a huge difference between the two sides of those videos and the creationist movement vs science..

And yes, I am convinced that creationists, evolutionists, etc, are highly religious in their preconceived notions and convince themselves they are totally right about things that happened millions of years ago which we have no way of knowing for sure.

There is no cult or group called evolutionists.., and religion is based on faith and not empirical based system or reasoning. But it you want to call a strong devotion to intellectual integrity, empirically supported and fact based belief a religion, feel free to do so. It would at least have actual relevance to the real world. Would you make the same argument regarding us vs a dishonest Flat Earther whom would tell you the sun is a spotlight 3,000 miles above? That's the type of claims and dishonesty we are addressing here.

A fossil is only proof that a fossil exists.
How it got there, how it was formed, and 'what it means', are entirely up to interpretation and many people will see different aspects of it.

sorry, there is a lot of actual science on how fossils form... And Creationists often rely on the dishonest trickster GOD as an appeal to ignorance as an argument against the fossil record. Hence, they are self-inventing and none of it is empirically based. To use your own argument, Creationists can't point to anything and claim "GOD DONE IT" since existence is only evidence of existence itself, or that a rabbit is only evidence of a rabbit according to the logic you just used. So where is the evidence of a GOD? Well, there isn't any what-so-ever..It's as relevant as an invincible dragon in my garage.

What we really need to do, is stop ridiculing the people who think differently than we do, and start taking all suggestions into consideration so that we may have a broader view of the possible interpretations. By being open to all possibilities, we can actually have a chance to find the truth.

No, dishonesty does a lot of damage to society, especially on the education level. We should not be respecting intentional dishonesty, intentional lack of intellectual integrity. That stuff often gets people killed.. Would you think Fraud would then become morally just and something to respect since it's just a different interpretation or morality? Truth is established by validation, research, application of, and verification within an empirical based system.

If you close yourself off to any possibility, finding the truth will begin to become near to impossible.

Any truth is going to be found through the study of existence itself as it's the only actual origin of anything to begin with. Science studies it everyday to which includes ourselves. And I don't close my mind to the possibility of the plausibility of perhaps entities capable of inducing big bangs either. This thread isn't about being close minded, it about addressing the dishonesty of the creationist movement to which is also based on a false idea of a conscious entity being first cause when it can not be giving a conscious state can not exist without cause. They often use the complexity argument to say complexity can't just appear on it's own as proof of GOD..All while at the same time ignoring the complexity of a cognitive system and what is required to support it. Hence, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. So no, a conscious entity can not solve infinite regress, and even a rock in itself demonstrates why that is.

By the way, Ben Stein raises excellent points in his documentary. I am not usually a fan of Stein but his film was very eye opening and I support his statements that Intellectual Freedom is paramount to ever hoping to advance towards a more civilized society.

which were those? he was dishonest.

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

There are those who accept science and those who don't accept science because it conflicts with their personal religious/spiritual views. That's it. One side has the deck of cards and is ready to play, the other doesn't. The notion that there are two "sides" to the "debate" is a false dichotomy put forth by creationists and other ideologically driven people who have an agenda. There is no middle ground: you either understand the theory of evolution or you don't/won't.

edit on 2-8-2012 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)

You show me ONE fossil of a species evolving into a "completely" different species and I'll start listening.
Until then NOTHING has been proven.

reply to post by TheGreatDivider


...and this is why creationists get laughed at.