The Problem with Greer

Originally posted by fah0436
reply to post by schuyler

 

True I don't have all the evidence I would like.
But that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of providing a logical reasonable explanation to what I think I saw.
So once again, how could those tricks be done???
Still waiting!!!!!

Then keep waiting, dammit! We've told you a dozen times. You saw a friggin' helicopter. Deal with it. You didn't see any orbs until they mysteriously appeared on a photograph. Deal with it! You SAY you heard footprints on the water, but there was NOBODY there and YOU are the only witness! Deal with it!

You ain't got nuthing and unless you can do better than that, cut it out!

reply to post by CiAlice

Rather severe and completely unsustainable statement, is it not? You should be safe, how could one ever challenge such a giant leap of occurrence?

Hm....

Rather an incoherent reply. Not quite sure what you mean by that.

I was not severe at all, unless you are Greer. The claim is very valid and what is a giant leap of occurrence?

My problem with Greer is all about the money and the secrecy, simple as that. I don't need to give any kind of proof or evidence of it because we here are all very much aware of it.

The fact that his personality grates in recent years on my nerves has no bearing what so ever on the credibility I give him. If he wasn't always asking for money and selling 'courses' and was showing the evidence he says he has, I would back him. If all he ever did was the press conferences and continued in that vein, I would still be interested in what he had to say.

To me it looks like he either sold out or used the credible witnesses he brought together to propel himself into a position of trust which he then completely abused.

I would love to be wrong but that is what my instincts and all available evidence is telling me.


No offence meant but Greer may take offence and that would be absurd because he would know the validity of my statement. He should feel guilt for taking money from people who are true believers/experiencers who crave validation and not ridicule which is perfectly understandable.

Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by CiAlice

 

Hm....

Rather an incoherent reply. Not quite sure what you mean by that.

The claim is very valid and what is a giant leap of occurrence?

It is precisely what happened when you gave your invaluable assessment...

I don't know what the spheres are and did not experience what you did and I sound like I don't believe there could have been anything to it. Sorry about that. What I mean to say is that what ever happened, it didn't have anything to do with Greer other than you were more open to it at that time. You could have had the same experience wether he was there or not.

...from within your personal world of divination.

Clearer?

Originally posted by Threegirls My problem with Greer is ...the fact that his personality grates in recent years on my nerves has no bearing what so ever on the credibility I give him.

Obviously.

[snarkle]

reply to post by fah0436


Did the photo have strange colors like this?



If not then I doubt it was taken with an infrared filter.

Doesn't that seem odd that no one saw any of these orbs? That they only show up on the cameras?

It's because they're camera artifacts.

reply to post by CiAlice


Erm.... no.

Occurrence Meaning and Definition
(n.) A coming or happening; as, the occurence of a railway collision.
(n.) Any incident or event; esp., one which happens without being designed or expected; as, an unusual occurrence, or the ordinary occurrences of life.

You can stub your toe whether the light is on or off is a valid a statement and is absolutely true.

People have strange experiences without being anywhere near Greer, this is just as true.

How is this divination? You really do seem to be offended by this statement, why?

Ps For your quote and edit of my post to make your point the full stop should be after nerves. I stated my problem with Greer, there are a few people who irritate me that I still give credence to. Your interpretation is false.


I should have written 'in recent years his personality grates on my nerves' it's the wee small hours here in the UK, I am really tired and going to bed now. Sorry.

Originally posted by Threegirls
reply to post by CiAlice

 

People have strange experiences without being anywhere near Greer, this is just as true.

How is this...

You're being ridiculously and purposefully disingenuous. I haven't the time.

Good Day, Hon.

reply to post by schuyler


I do think im a resonable person and will listen to all theries.
You are the person that's says I'm wrong or have been tricked.
Given that it is your responsibility to explain how.

Or your posts are meaningless and should be ignored.

If if is one thing I would like to see on ATS it's and immediate delete of posts that cry fake or false with nothing to back it up.

A while back there was a thread on how pearl harbor was a us false flag operation. At least the vast majority of posters provided evidence on why that was not true.

You have something, switching out a lense in just a few seconds. But not much.

reply to post by fah0436


Alas...you are a die-hard Greer fan. There is nothing anyone can say to you, that hasn't already been said in this thread.

If you can't see the logic in what has already been posted...you never will. It becomes an exercise in futility to respond to you.

Best of luck in your future dealings with Greer....really....

Des

Originally posted by fah0436
reply to post by schuyler

 

I do think im a resonable person and will listen to all theries. You are the person that's says I'm wrong or have been tricked. Given that it is your responsibility to explain how.

Or your posts are meaningless and should be ignored.

Take your own advice and ignore the Dog, Fred!

Then, after you are finished, I double-dog-dare you look me in the eye and say, "I take very, very seriously and now understand why they threw Michael Schuyler out of the Paracast."

Originally posted by fah0436
reply to post by Druscilla

 

No. Sorry your wrong. No staged show on a cold sandy windy beach at night.

And no one was within 50 feet of me for my beach experience. So to do that, Greer got 3 invisible guys to walk across the water toward me? And used some kind of invisible electric device to tingle me? And why didn't he capture that on both audio and video? Would have been easy enough!

Are you afraid that ET's and ED's may be real?
You're just making up excuses with no real facts or evidence to back it up.
While I do have facts and evidence that has not been dis proven.

If you throw out the orb photo and the helicopter, I'm willing to entertain the footsteps. If you hang out with the high strangeness crowd you're likely to experience some high strangeness.

Is it real? Maybe, maybe it's more Jungianesque in nature. If it was a true anomalous event it would seem more kin to poltergeist reports than something an ET might be interested in, though.

Are experiences like that valuable? I'd say no. Not very. At least not what is charged for them. You're really not left with much of an answer after all is said and done are you?

My experience around the "high strangeness" crowd convinced me that it produces a lot of folk like Greer. Ready to soak up all the adoration and benefits they can get.

Do you not find his statements about things that never materialize suspect? What about the moth photo? You also said he was surrounded by some groupie types. What might that tell you?

Like I said, I'm willing to give the you the "footsteps" experience, but are you willing to take a harder look at Greer?

Originally posted by gortex
Was he ever a researcher ? ,all I know of is that he got the Disclosure project together and organized the press club conference , back then I thought that was a good step forward and believed he was sincere and wanted the truth out in the open , it didn't take long for that opinion to change .

I believe he sniffed the possible pot of cash that could be made from all the people who also believed him and were willing to buy (literally) into whatever he said , he's a doctor ... everybody trusts doctors , then the "crazy stuff" started and the cash started flowing , the truth be dammed when $$$ involved

I totally agree Greer should be bashed, if all this is true I would suggest no one to ever call him a doctor because his PHD doesn't mean anything with him revealing how stupid he is. Yet, his persistence as a researcher was made relevant to me, and that he was behind the disclosure project, he is either a good guy or a bad guy, which means he probably still should be respected since he has ties to the inside. From what I heard of his lectures, he complains a lot that his family is big and he pursued UFOlogy rather than a doctor position and filled still with greed for more money.

Excellent post!

S&F

Great write up as usual! After reading the thread I was thinking that what you wrote was spot on with who Greer really is and I didn't think many if any would argue what you explained but lo and behold there are still faithful followers of the snake-oil salesman.

We are all seekers of the truth in one way or another, that's why we are on this site(fore the most part).

Lately there has been a huge influx of people who believe everything they read as long as it supports something that they have already made a decision on. People are coming in with a conclusion and only accepting information which agrees with that conclusion...rather than reading all information and then making a conclusion. Furthermore, people are getting upset with people who point out actual facts that dispute their information rather than openly trying to recognize a flaw in their conclusion...critical thinking has become the enemy.

It really hurts the whole community and puts it further down on the crazy list.

reply to post by The GUT


I do kind of like your summary. I won't let the helicopter issue go without more evidence that is was staged because of it's relevance to the photo. You NEVER see a helicopter flying around with a full bank of lights on the side turned on unless is it DIRECTLY in support of a military mission. Commercial helicopters can't support the weight or generate the power to light up all those lights.

Groupies - i did address that earlier. There were just 2 people out of about 10 that I would sort of describe as groupies. Not a large or significant factor in the overall experience..

And looking at the picture, I don't see much evidence of IR photography. It just looks like a color photo, maybe of longer that normal duration. BUt for the amount and number of orbs in the picture, it's hard for me to believe it's just a photographic artifact.

I'm not 100% behind Greer, more like 85%. BUt I do think he is doing far more good than harm to the UFO issue. I sure don't see anyone doing more that he is. ANd that doesn't include what he's trying to do with free energy either. Maybe others are just jealous so they dis him.

reply to post by schuyler
[more

So just because a lot of people on ATS say Greer is fraud that is therefore the truth? Anyone going through the threads on this website is likely to get the impression that most posters are paid to undermine the factual premise and logic of anything to do with UFO's, aliens and the NWO.

There was thread about this exact issue once and there is a video by Jhonny Anonmyous where a poster alerted the ATS community to the fact that the U.S. goverment was advised to insert such posters in these kinds of website for that exact purpose.

While I've not bothered to the incidence of such posts I reguarly notice that the first few replies to a thread about the above subject matter are always negative. This raises the possibility that many of them a paid posters.

Greer may not be right in everything he says in the same way that cynics are not always right but at least he, and many others are out their doing somehting which is more that the armchair critics themselves are doing.

Incidently; I hear the exact same comments being made about Kerry Cassidy and a dozen others. Lets see the OP start a blog and offer commontry on who they think are the gunine UFO, Alien and NWO researchers out there and we'll see how long their supporters on this website take to tar them with the same brush and see how long they would continue to keep their blog going in the face of such feeback on ATS and their own blog site.

To my way of thinking, if the little people of the world want to see America shake off control by TPTB they have to be united and see past the failings of those out their who are fighting the impending tyrrany othewise the litte people are their own worst enemy by thinking they are being smart by being cynical and always suspecting the motives of those out their putting their money and everything else where there mouth is.

Is the OP doing this also?????/

reply to post by schuyler


Thank you for the well-written thread on the problems with Greer.

I was the OP earlier today whose thread was removed (for reasons that don't make any sense to me. My source was an email to me from Greer, which I pasted, since I couldn't link to it, and there was no solicitious requests in my thread, etc. etc.) And yet, it was removed. And that's not the first time that's happened here either when I've posted something about Greer.

My problem with the sarcasm, with the inability to have a decent discussion about Greer and the dozens of other public UFO/conspiracy people that nobody likes here at ATS--is the utter lack of respect, the refusal to think intellectually and rationally and present logical arguments. It's like a bunch of school boys in the bully pit who prefer to duke it out rather than realize the world seeks logic and order.

Your points about Greer are well taken, and I can understand the animosity to a certain extent. But here's what I have to say:

There are people out in the world who wish to spread truth. We may not like the way in which they do it, we may not like that they ask for donations, or we object to their egotistical methods, but you cannot argue with the difference that they're making----and it's needed. It's needed so badly in this world right now--that we must wake up people one at a time and get moving before it's too late.

And yes, even with all their idiosyncracies and egotistical methods---I believe we must tolerate them in some way. There is no question Greer woke up millions of people----and they may not like him now, but you can't question the value of his early revelations and his bravery. There is NO WAY for you to measure his impact in those early days----no possible way, and I submit to you that the value of that impact far surpasses the damage you so clearly believe he is doing now.

The point is to wake people up. You cannot feign to pick people's messengers and it is unfair of you to do so. There are those who say Shirley Maclaine is a quack, and yet if you tried to measure the number of people she has enlightened about so many issues---again, it would be impossible. And yet to even mention her name is to be ridiculed by many.

And what is the result of that ridicule? I'll tell you this: The conspiracy community is doing exactly what the rest of the world has done to them----to engage in mockery. You people here---with all of your open minds and your smug pretense that you've got the corner on conspiracies----do the same thing that you claim the rest of the world does to you----which is to mock someone's beliefs. It reminds me of the Puritans who came here to America for religious tolerance, and then kicked anyone out of Massachusetts who didn't share their religious beliefs. Utter hypocracy.

You might not like other people's messengers, and that's okay. You're entitled to your beliefs. I'm smart enough to understand your disdain for Greer. But when I run into someone who finally came to the understanding that we are not alone in the universe because of Greer----well, I tip my hat to him. That's big.

Until people here are willing to quit their jobs to fight for the causes that people at ATS seem to hold so dear, until the sarcastic posters are willing to risk their homes and their families and their livliehoods for the betterment of this world, then I submit to you that they should learn to be tolerant of others. People like Greer are brave---and whatever else you want to say about him, you can't take that away from him. He's made a difference, and that difference is immeasurable.

And no, I am not embarrassed to say that, as you so boldly said in your OP. I'm not embarrassed at all. In fact, tonight I am holding the torch for all the brave people who have come forth and made a difference somehow, who risked their careers and their sanity and their reputations to speak the truth.

You might not like how they're packaged, or how they make their living-----but don't be so sure that everyone else shares your beliefs. It isn't your job to change their minds. It shouldn't matter to you at all. If Joe Schmoe chooses Greer as his messenger--the person who nudged him in his slumber----well, the fact is--is that there is one more person on your team. Who cares who drove him to the game?

I hate to see ATS becoming so intolerant.

And like the Puritans, you'll drive good people away.

reply to post by fah0436


You heard foot steps on water?

That could be a myraid of things.

1.Frogs
2.Water Bugs
3.Bat swooping down to eat or drink

The tingle was there because your body didn't know what was going on, got afraid and raised the hair on your arms like it does to cats/dogs in an anxiety fight or flight situation.

Originally posted by The GUT Are experiences like that valuable? I'd say no. Not very. At least not what is charged for them. You're really not left with much of an answer after all is said and done are you?

How much would or should answers cost, The GUT?

Originally posted by The GUT My experience around the "high strangeness" crowd convinced me that it produces a lot of folk like Greer. Ready to soak up all the adoration and benefits they can get.

You're running with the wrong crowd. That's fixable.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by fah0436

 

You heard foot steps on water?

That could be a myraid of things.

1.Frogs
2.Water Bugs
3.Bat swooping down to eat or drink

The tingle was there because your body didn't know what was going on, got afraid and raised the hair on your arms like it does to cats/dogs in an anxiety fight or flight situation.

I was gonna go with Jesus...but your reply is more logical.

To OP... S&F. Lots of good info and a very interesting read! I confess to not knowing a lot about Greer until this thread came up. I knew who he was and his part in the "Disclosure" project, but not a lot more. Thanks for that!

Originally posted by MRuss

Thank you for the well-written thread on the problems with Greer.

I was the OP earlier today whose thread was removed (for reasons that don't make any sense to me. My source was an email to me from Greer, which I pasted, since I couldn't link to it, and there was no solicitious requests in my thread, etc. etc.) And yet, it was removed. And that's not the first time that's happened here either when I've posted something about Greer.

I sense you believe that ATS has a bias, that they lack neutrality in moderation re: Greer. Is that accurate?

Why do you think that is so?

reply to post by schuyler


That was a great OP. I like how you worded it all so naturally and in a flowing honest way.

As for Greer, he let me down when he acted like he was going to become the liaison to the Government without anyone's approval except his own. Frankly it startled and kind of pissed me off not to mention put me into a panic mode because I knew he was not the one.