The Problem with Greer

Originally posted by schuyler

If Greer, or any of these other shysters, really wanted to "Help Mankind," then he'd Open Source this and put it out for peer review.

Open source and the possibility of peer review is well overstated by those who have little knowledge of either.

...someday you will learn!

Teach me!

Originally posted by MrSkeptiko

Originally posted by schuyler

If Greer, or any of these other shysters, really wanted to "Help Mankind," then he'd Open Source this and put it out for peer review.

Open source and the possibility of peer review is well overstated by those who have little knowledge of either.

It's probably useless to respond to this in view of the banned status of this guy, but just for the record I have contributed to Open Source software and also been published in peer reviewed journals. So I do think I know something of both. The point still stands, though. These devices are always "under wraps" and never allowed to be examined.

...someday you will learn!

Teach me!

This is kind of strange because I don't recall typing the last paragraph of that post, especially not the last line. Upon investigation it actually comes from a post by tinhattribunal. It must have been at the bottom of the post I replied to. I didn't see it, so it looks like it came from me. My mistake in quoting. You can verify this for yourself by looking at the post.

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
if i made a free energy device ... i wouldn't want to sell one to you.

Complete silliness.

I'm glad to have found this old thread!

3 years later and still he performs the same song and dance.

I remember waiting forever to see the film Sirius and man was I disappointed haha!

He's making the rounds again and I just heard him on Midnight in the Desert, so I thought I would finally search for some alternative opinions regarding Greer.

S&F!

The foundation of Greer's work is that he had experiences back when he was a teen , he learnt transcendental meditation. He also had a near death experience. He learnt the vedic concepts of India which is what transcendental meditation by Shri Ramana Maharishi is based on. The premise of 'consciousness and superconsciousness' and transcending the mind from the concerns of lower states, to a more aware higher state, is basically eastern in origin. The culture , sense of possibilities, understanding of the east is unmeasureably different from the west. You could say its almost polar opposite. Even the martial arts is a means of transcending. East was mostly about becoming 'more' through spiritual practice and renouncing the materialism. Differences of opinions and approaches exist everywhere. And yes charlatans and fakers exist everywhere too. West is built on materialism, conquest, exploration, and curiousity, genuine inquiry, consensus, and some Christian based ideas which show in the attitudes of many people. Christianity has sort of a 'fixed' aggressive idea. And deviation from it is punishable and demonised. This is the premise of the current thinking in the west. Without knowing we are influenced by our early conditioning, and have certain emphasis which we are unable to step out of and consider another way of thinking or life. Hence the head-on conflicts. Plurality requires fluid thinking .

Where does Greer come in? My assessment is Greer is enamored by the eastern bug. His vedic puja, his meditations and efforts are geared from a deeper level than just the money. Also in the medical field such attitudes are not appreciated. You cannot 'be' a person with radical ideas. Its all about the protocols and mandates and guidelines, which do not afford enough flexibility for individual thought. Add to that the restrictions of the bureaucratic processes. A person who had an NDE at age 18 and learnt meditation around the same is going to be a horrible misfit in the medical field, and surely so in the 90s. The whole perception of the 'hippies and druggies' is a red flag for a person in the medical position.


Greer's motivations may not have been sinister to start with. After all we all justify our actions and decisions to ourselves based on some values. But add to this equation his 'alpha-male' personality and he becomes a contradiction embodied. I am not surprised by how many people are put off by his mere projection of self. And once we do so we suspiciously evaluate every word, action and thought as negative.


In the east if you told people about beings from other planets, they will not be surprised. Its woven into the very mythology. And mythology , though it gets distorted over time, percolates and disseminates into the culture and carries on in various forms. Mahabharat and Ramayana contain references which will lead one to assume we were visited in the past. Vedic puja, and sanskrit chants are considered ways to purify and change the 'vibration' of a given space.


To me the eastern connection and motivation of Greer is relevant. Whatever has become of that original intent now, when he saw how things shaping up, his desparation to earn credibility for the field etc etc. I can understand how he started on that path. Eastern people, especially the ones who have meditated for years and years and attained samadhi, will tell you that you can transcend your mind to another dimension. Many of those who wrote the RIgveda, claimed sanskrit was spoken on other planets by other beings too, because its based on intonation and experiential consciousness.Ingo Swann mentioned the same in his lectures.

Devoid of this premise, evaluating his intentions, his performance, etc to me seems inadequate. I will not put it past him to have become an opportunist given the opportunities that lined up after he began on this trail. I also doubt he had the foresight to see how opportunities will line up. He must have at some point justified it to himself as deserving and necessary. I think its important to take into consideration the whole picture, than trivialise the entire subject with one person's unlikable persona. Most comments I read are trying to isolate every detail, and yet everything that can be replicated doesnt render the original a fake.

To have a one-line opinion about someone is a shallow way to think/ EVery person is complex. We could split hairs all day long about every person we know and paint them with a broad brush. Its possible to project every single person alive today as a criminal, traitor, fraud, etc. Not one human is above that criticism and judgment. But that frame of reference is a projection of the perciever not the actual person. Without a context, any judgement can seem valid. I neither completely agree nor disagree with Greer. Disclosure project and Citizen's hearing for disclosure was a great way to bring forth people from different levels who have info regarding the subject. But I do not expect anyone to live up to the impossible standard of 'infalliable'. Black and white world views and absolutes are a mark of immature minds.

a reply to: krines
I have actually heard Greer in person (at the UFO international conference) and was immediately put off by his demeanor. for instance he took of his jacket and flexed his impressive musculature for all as he got into his spiel...meet UFOs for real in New Mexico..as I recall.
But
His enthusiasm and salesmanship should not be used to discard the message. I met Jim Marrs and Grant Cameron at the same conference, and found their information and presentations to be credible and important.. but then they were not selling trips to the desert for and experience....

a reply to: darkstar57

I find Grant Cameron's presentations interesting too. Eventually its not about any person or persona, but what is 'distilled and filtered' out and still remains constant amongst different people in this field. There is too much of disinfo, distortions etc but that does not mean there isnt 'any' genuine info. We have to take it all with a pinch of salt. Greer does come across as 'ambitious and opportunistic'. But there is definitely a consciousness/'ESP' component to contact as explained by so many researchers. And that should be taken into account when evaluating this info.

a reply to: krines
Camerons presentation, i think i have it on dvd, emphasizes the communication aspect of UFOs, rather than the technology. this is difficult to grasp, and implies that the human brain may have quantum level transmit and receive capabilities that we do not recognize... finding clues among the disinformation is my hobby, and why i look here on ats.
perhaps you can recommend an introduction to meditation.. but i cannot shake the western perspective..evidence of communication. for example, remote viewing, investigated by Jim Marrs, seems to find evidence of the transmit receive capability of the human mind.... I want to see the evidence for myself. so here is a challenge. it is 11 37 am. here. at noon 1200 i will focus on a common object on my desk..you do the same. then report what you saw....

a reply to: darkstar57

While I am happy to participate in this exercise, can you please elaborate what will this be the evidence of?

As for meditation, the simplest and the easiest way is to focus on breathing, and be mindful of your breathing till its rythmic. Which centres your attention in this moment. When you have sufficient ability to control the mind's tendency to to keep 'frilling' into different levels of thought, and become coherent and centred, you will be able to disconnect from the sensory stimulation around or atleast dim it, to a point where you will be aware of your awareness/beingness, which is a very relaxing experience.

Every mind is different. The 'hardware' and the 'software'. And so how your meditation process proceeds from there will be unique to you. All I can say is, give it fair shot for a period of say 10 days.

a reply to: darkstar57

Okay so we focus at the same time at a random object at our respective desks, for say 30 seconds, and then guess what the other person was observing?

a reply to: krines indeed, i just did it.

a reply to: darkstar57

The knowledge that 'its a common object on your desk' is leading to 'analytical overlay'. A black and gold pen, a paper weight. WHat was your impression?

I suppose for a remote viewing or even to 'entangle' we need to have no prior idea or impression of what it could be? Like Courtney Brown mentions, they assign co-ordinates to the target and simply give the signal, there is a target remote view it with a cryptic co-ordinate 'number' or code to represent it. That way whatever impressions they get are unbiased. And can then be evaluated objectively.And ofcourse this 'faculty' needs to be developed to be used. It does require a different way of using our minds, and filtering information.

originally posted by: fah0436
reply to post by Destinyone

 

He'd have a far more decant and easier lifestyle as an ER physician than trying to get people to cough up money to see UFO's.

So there goes your theory.

Actually no, he wouldn't. I worked in a large University hospital for 15 years. Even the doctors that had made it out of residency and become attendings worked long grueling hours. $200k may seem like a lot of money but, when the only thing you have energy to do in your spare time is sleep? Break down that salary to an hourly rate and it isn't all that great until you've been in the medical field for about 20 years. That's 20 years of bone grinding hours. Mind you, that 20 years doesn't even include the years spent in college, medical school and residency. I saw it first hand. He is making far more money for far less work. Plenty of ATS members that work in the medical field will tell you the same.

a reply to: krinesi was looking at a large multivitamin (2 then one), in front of its container around 12. i perceived an upside down equalateral triangle, but rather indistinct. with eyes closed, and an attempt to meditate.

a reply to: darkstar57

I was looking at my spectacles, brown, upside down though. I guess we should try again

I originally thought Greer was legit when the disclosure project started.

Now his stories are often outrageous, what I believe to be lies and he tells them at every possible opportunity.
Which is really hurting the ufo field. He went on the Rogan podcast and laid out so many far-fetched stories. When Joe learns of new stuff he didn't already know he will usually reference back to it on other podcasts. He never mentioned Greer again, pretty sure he found it all to be total bs.

I caught Greer being mis-leading during this video of a talk in front of a small crowd in D.C. The description made it seem like a "briefing" but it was probably some type of free talk at a bookstore or whatever.
He spoke about an anti-gravity device and that he would discuss the physics later in the talk. He never did.

It's not surprising to see people jump into the field and blend fiction with established cases and use it to make money.
There are already many people doing well in all sorts of psychic fields who know it's not real. Why not ufos also?

It does stink because it's hurting the possibility of ufos being taken serious.
Even if I was receiving psychic messages from aliens and I was a known ufo personality, I would NEVER tell anyone unless I was allowed to use it to show some type of proof.

originally posted by: schuyler

In another incident Greer claims to have “briefed" the head of the CIA, R. James Woolsey, on UFOs. The Woolsey’s disagree:

It has just come to the attention of the four of us that you have, without giving any of us the opportunity to comment, published a distorted account of a dinner party of some six years ago at which the four of us, you, and your wife were seated together.

In the introduction to your book, Extraterrestrial Contact, published earlier this year you portray this dinner party conversation during which the four of us listened to your views and politely asked questions as a “briefing” with a “cover story.” You further assert that Mr. and Mrs. Woolsey reported a UFO sighting to you and agreed with your views. You include specific alleged quotations from them.

None of this is accurate. You have portrayed politeness as acquiesceance and questions as affirmations. Your conduct in this manner contravenes both accuracy and simple manners.”

Signed: John L Peterson, Diane C Peterson, R. James Woolsey, Suzanne H Woolsey, Sep 16, 1999

Source: www.ufowatchdog.com...

Just to add some information to this:

Edgar Mitchell did actually confirm that he went to Washington with Steven Greer to brief the CIA-director.

originally posted by: Neill887

Just to add some information to this:

Edgar Mitchell did actually confirm that he went to Washington with Steven Greer to brief the CIA-director.

Just to add some information to that ^

Ed Mitchell Most Unhappy With Greer Using His Name As Disclosure Witness
From Dr. Jack Sarfatti [email protected]
Subject: Astronaut Ed Mitchell on Washington Times story of the Greer UFO Disclosure Conference
To: Edgar Mitchell Organization: Internet Science Education Project 5-13-1

"Steve Greer...began to overreach his data continuously" - Edgar Mitchell

(Edgar Mitchell) Jack, et al: The Washington Times (story) on UFO disclosure mentions my name as a witness for the Disclosure Project -- which I am not ...and have not been.

(Jack Sarfatti) I am not surprised at all. If you look to see who is running that CSETI Horse and Pony Disinfo Show & Tell you will recognize familiar names. Consider the source. As a Navy man and NASA Astronaut who really was Out There, you know what I mean. :-)

(Edgar Mitchell) I cooperated with Steve Greer some years ago, but he began to overreach his data continuously, necessitating a withdrawal by myself, and, I believe, several others. I have requested to be removed from any web site, announcements, etc., but see that has not taken place.

(Jack Sarfatti) Typical of politically-based influence operations. The real motive of the Press Club Event was the issue of militarization of space not UFOs, on which reasonable well meaning people can differ of course. Since many millions of voters believe UFOs are real, getting control of the UFO movement clearly is a top priority for all the players.

(Edgar Mitchell) Although I firmly believe it is time for openness and disclosure by government, I object to being misused in this fashion and acquire guilt by association with certain claims that simply are not true.

(Jack Sarfatti) I feel exactly as you do. I think you, Don Ecker and I see it eye-to-eye on this one.

(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will. --Edgar Mitchell

(Jack Sarfatti) Is The Pope Catholic? Pass it on. I certainly will. :-)

a reply to: draknoir2

Is this a disinformation forum? I come here on occasion and I am blown away, but in a bad way. Everyone on here rushes to discredit everything including Dr. Steven Greer. Almost everyone on here claims he is a fraud. Are you kidding me? Most peoples judgment on the man has to do with him charging money for contact sessions. Maybe you should try quitting your job and pursing this subject full time and see how far you make it. You need either someone rich to back you financially or you will need to find some way to make money. Because in case you forgot, you need money to pay bills, eat, and to travel, among other things. If you don't like that he charges money for that stuff, then don't go.

Has he presented a working free energy device? No he hasn't. Have you? Has anyone else? No. This kind of technology would be at the highest classification. He is a former Doctor not some brilliant scientist. Just because he hasn't provided them yet doesn't mean he's a fraud. If you believe in ET presence on this planet (if you don't then GTFO) then you know these types of sciences exists, as these craft are not cruising around burning oil and using rockets.

As for him meeting high level Government officials, including the former CIA Director, Mr. Edgar Mitchell did confirm this ON VIDEO. I am not sure where this article originated that Ed Mitchell was unhappy with Dr. Greer and possibly wanted to sue him. As far as I know, there is no video evidence of Ed Mitchell saying these things about Dr. Greer. In fact, Ed Mitchell recently did a interview for the Sirius film in 2013 and was in the actual film and confirmed that he did indeed help Mr. Greer attend these meetings. So wait. First he got mad at Dr. Greer and even talked about suing him, only to turn up in support once again in the film? Come on guys that article about him being upset over Dr. Greer is clear disinformation.

Dr. Greer gave us the disclosure project (FOR FREE EVERYONE, you can watch this for free) was gave this subject light and gave it the push it needed. These were credible witnesses telling their stories. That is what people should focus on when talking about Dr. Greer. If you don't like that he repeats a lot of the same information in his presentations or you don't like his personality in which he talks about it, then that's fine. But don't sit here and try to discredit the man because of it. It is unfair and you are doing this very important subject a injustice.

Here is the full video interview of Ed Mitchell in case you need confirmation.
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: rush0024

Everyone on here rushes to discredit everything including Dr. Steven Greer.

Perhaps everyone here has more experience of Steven Greer than you and the only one who has really discredited Dr. Steven Greer is Steven Greer himself.

As for him meeting high level Government officials, including the former CIA Director, Mr. Edgar Mitchell did confirm this ON VIDEO.

His meeting with Woolsey is not in doubt but only he believes it was a briefing the other attendees saw it another way.

If you don't like that he repeats a lot of the same information in his presentations or you don't like his personality in which he talks about it, then that's fine. But don't sit here and try to discredit the man because of it.

Dr Greer takes his followers on a guided tour of an inadvisable Alien spaceship @ 4.05 on video.

He has discredited himself over the years , I'll admit the Disclosure Project was great and had me sucked in for a while but its purpose was more to do with publicising Steven Greer than Disclosing an Alien presence.

But don't sit here and try to discredit the man because of it. It is unfair and you are doing this very important subject a injustice

If Dr Greer would like to come here to defend himself I'm sure there are many who would relish the opportunity to discuss his actions and claims , until then we are doing this subject a service by exposing a snake oil salesman of the highest order.

originally posted by: rush0024
Most peoples judgment on the man has to do with him charging money for contact sessions.

No, people know he is a fraud for his photo of a alien that was actually a cactus, and his photo of a alien light being that turned out to be a moth, and his taking people inside a invisible spaceship......

www.abovetopsecret.com...