Pepper-Spraying Policeman No Longer Works for UC Davis

Originally posted by billy197300

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
One down, many to go.

What I'd be curious to check is what legal actions may have recently come and been settled or may even be pending. I.E.....This guy was a whacko and a bully boy with a badge. What are the odds he hasn't done more and perhaps worse since? There could be an interesting story to the termination. Privacy.. bahh..

@yourmaker

No excuse. No way. He should have been gone by the end of that day.

edit on 2-8-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

It's funny how people always just show part of this clip. They always leave out the part were the students circled the police and told them they cant leave.

You'll have to show me that because I was with Occupy in a supporting role, watching and recording the Livestream feeds across 4 monitors the day this happened. I watched what coverage this clip came from live. I don't recall seeing the students sitting there, being HOSED with Pepper Spray and yelling as it hits them having been up and surrounding the police in a menacing way. I can name several camps and confrontations I specifically did see that or something close to it happen with...but I don't recall seeing the Occupy people at Davis being outright threatening.

Whatever they HAD been, they sure weren't threatening as they sat there. Pepper Spray is a good defensive weapon. THIS was CHEMICAL WARFARE.

No purpose other than the inflicting of pain and temporary injury with the application of chemical agents.

You tell me a clearer definition of it and Chem War doesn't have to be fatal to very much BE that. He should have been prosecuted for this, not just fired.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Dear ErribeiousDylan,

The very craftily worded press release does not say that he was fired. It says that he no longer works for UC Davis. There is a very high probability that he has been transferred to another University within the State of California. The officers had been given permission to use pepper spray and there is no way the university could fire him for doing as instructed.

reply to post by AQuestion


"Erribeious"

I never said he was fired as a result of breaking conduct, not following protocol, or henceforth. The article does state that he was "laid-off". They don't necessarily have to give a reason why he was laid off and they didn't. This is the oldest legal move in the book, however, when a company doesn't want somebody but can't actually fire them due to legal reasons.

Isn't it a little coincidental that the man that was publicized spraying people in the face also suddenly is no longer needed by the force?

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Dear ErroneousDylan (sorry for the misspelling the first time),

He left UC Davis, he was not laid off from the state system. He will either be transferred to another university or college or he will be transferred to a job at a state prison. He couldn't be "laid off" because the state has to do that by seniority and he had some. It is not private industry, they don't get to pick and choose who they lay off. To even try and force him to take another job would not be legal, they would have had to pay him off for changing his job. He was on administrative leave, that was for his protection. They simply waited until things cooled down to move him.

reply to post by AQuestion


I can only go by what the article says and the article said he was laid off.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Dear ErroneousDylan,

You can go by more than the article, you can read the law regarding hiring and firing within the UC system and the state. He could not be laid off, he had to agree to move. Why did he have to agree, simple, because if he disagreed then he would have the right to a hearing and appeals and all sorts of stuff. How many police officers have you heard of that were fired for doing what they were told. Heck, they don't even fire them when they kill someone. I will bet dollars to donuts that he changed his name and is working at another University. Do you think the police union would not put up a defense for him? They have said nothing because they orchestrated a deal. It won't work, he will be found because so many pictures of him exist. We live in the age of biometrics.

I have 25 years working with personnel issues for governmental agencies. You cant fool me. This man was decorated for prior actions, he had seniority and did what he was told. You cannot lay him off or fire him for that. You can send him somewhere else and state that you no longer employ him. It is illegal to target a specific person for layoffs in California governmental orginizations. It didn't happen that way. That would not be a lay off, that would be firing.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Drop in the bucket. My opinion is not swayed.

reply to post by VforVendettea


Your opinion being what?

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Sounds like a pretty big assumption on your part. Employers are known for making that exact statement, to suggest that the person was fired. He may have quit. Probably due to bad publicity.

reply to post by AnarchysAngel

Pike, who was on paid leave since the incident, declined to comment, and Shiller said he cannot disclose the exact reason why Pike was laid off.

Layoff:

is the temporary suspension or permanent termination of employment of an employee or (more commonly) a group of employees for business reasons, such as when certain positions are no longer necessary or when a business slow-down occurs.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Dear ErroneousDylan,

The University did not say the person was laid off, the reporter characterized the fact that the officer was no longer employed by UC Davis as a layoff. If the man had been fired, they would have said so. If he had chose to retire, they would have said so. And they could not lay him off, it is not allowed to target individual people under state law. You are being misled, they are trying to make it so nobody will look for him on other campuses.

Consider the University's choices. They can keep him at UC Davis. That might not be the best place for him, he will never be trusted and be harassed for the rest of his career and he was following orders. Next choice, fire him. That doesn't work if he was following instruction and he was. In California if you work for the government, you almost have a property right to your job. Next possibility, he retired. Nope, he didn't have the years. Next choice, he died. Nope they will thrilled to tell us that and wouldn't be able to testify in a law suit. Finally, they moved him to another campus of state facility where nobody will know it is the same person. Odds are that he has been moved to another campus with a bonus.

Think about this, he has the University over a barrel and could sue them for lots of money for all of the problems he will face for the rest of his life because he followed their orders. I am not saying he should have, I am saying he did. At a minimum, he could have received a disability retirement; but, those are considerably smaller than his real retirement would be and he would not be able to find other employment. He cannot now, who is going to hire him, he has to stick it out with his chosen profession. The good old Sac Bee, is just helping their community by using a little spin.

reply to post by AQuestion

The officers had been given permission to use pepper spray and there is no way the university could fire him for doing as instructed.

There is using Pepper Spray and then there is just hosing kids down in the face with a super-bottle of the stuff. Even some cops came out against this and the Cop site sympathetic to Occupy definitely had words over this incident.

Heck, this fool became an internet star, a regular where's waldo as I recall. There is even a member here who has this guy pepper spraying Yoda on his Avatar. It's a cute one.

I think firing him would have given him rights against them. Convincing him to leave left him options for a resume. Just my guess...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Dear Wrabbit2000,

I think firing him would have given him rights against them. Convincing him to leave left him options for a resume. Just my guess...

Convincing him to leave? Why would he not sue them, the police union would have supported him, look what they are doing in other cities. Lets make it easy, the idiot that wrote the article could have asked a simple question, did he cease to be an employee of the State? He has no resume, he could get no job. How could they convince him to leave? His better choice would be to sue them and he hasn't. That means they reached agreement. Do you really believe that he agreed to leave his job when he did what he was told and risk finding someone who would hire him if they knew who he was? That is not logical and assumes he has no sense of self preservation.

Now, what kind of life should he have if he was "just following orders". He didn't kill anyone, he did however show no concern over others. Should he be allowed to ever work as an officer again? Should he ever be allowed around colleges again? He cared more about his orders than others, is that right? If not, then what is forgiveness if he does not admit that what he did was wrong? Enough has been said, he will be looked for on every campus and if he is there, it will come out. What was it Lincoln said, you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. I think the peaceful protestors who sat there while they sprayed in the face by him, rather than attacking him, they took his abuse and understood what he did not. They would accept his apology for being a stooge and "following orders".