Target food proves evolution wrong

reply to post by Barcs

Tooth, by your definition target food was "intended" for the species. You can't prove that anything ever was intended without showing who intended it, not even ants for an anteater. So even though ants and termites (2 different foods) make up most of an ant eater's diet, that's just the way it is. They weren't just set up and installed here specifically for ant eaters to eat. If that were the case, why create the ant and the ant eater in the first place? It's an ugly nasty species that digs its food out of the ground. Why not make him a more elegant species that can eat something without having to dig for it. I'd imagine eating ants out of the ground wouldn't be the most enjoyable life. Why make all nature always in competition for food if target food was real? So you still have 0 examples of target food, since your example does not even fit your own criteria.

Well your making an assumption that someone has to be behind the structure, just like I make the assumption that evolution couldn't exists without a creator behind it either.

Here is the thing, its a little more complicate then pretending the anteater just accidently stumbled onto eating ants. There is a driving force of some type that tells him what to eat. Could be instinct, but either way, how does he know? And assuming target food exists, how does he know ants are better for him compared to bees? Maybe he doesn't have to provided he is provoked in the right direction. Now hes got a lot more on his side to find ants too. Like his special ears to hear them with, and special snout to smell them with, and special claws to dig them out with and special tounge to pull them out with. This guy is an ant eating machine. You claim his body and abilities evolved which is why he has so much going for him in processing ants. So I ask, and I believe this is about the 5th time that I have, what did we evolve into eating?

Now we can both agree its one of two things going on here, either evolution is real and he got his ears, snout, claws, tounge all by chance, that just so happen to all work on ants, or there is some type of intelligence behind his design. Since humans haven't seemed to evolve in the same manner, as we are not able to look at ourselves and see specifically what we are tuned up to eat, it only stands to reason that intelligence is behind design, and because we are victims of intervention, this is why we are unable to identify with any natual obvious abilities here on earth.

reply to post by itsthetooth


I came up with a really good target food since so many were complaining.

Abalone eats kelp.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

So when you look for information, do you always go straight to pseudo-scientific sources, or do you even bother to check out properly sourced scientific sources first before you ignore them?

If your referring to evolution I go to the sources that people on the thread send me to.

What about you, do you just ignore anything that isn't explainable by science?

edit on 12-8-2012 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)

I don't ignore it...but I admit we can't explain...as opposed to you filling that gap in knowledge with magic and pseudo-science

reply to post by itsthetooth
Your reply to my post illustrates why you are such a waste of time.

You dismissed all the points I made with little regards to proof, evidence or honesty.

Your claim that aphids form the ants staple diet.

Except for the fact that aphids are a large portion of the ants diet, and they are natural with little to few processes. Aphids are idealy a target food.

Here is a link Do ants eat aphids?

More Info: Though ants do not eat aphids, they do share a symbiotic relationship with them, that is, both parties receive some benefit from the relationship. Aphids provide an important food source for certain species of ants. The ants farm the aphids much like cows milking them for the honeydew that aphids secrete.

So the ant farms the aphid. They milk the aphid for honeydew just as we herd and milk cows. But hey don’t let a little thing like reality or honesty spoil your fantasy.

So the honeydew is the 'target food' and not the aphid. So the ant has to go through many processes to get his food which you say means it cannot be his target food. So what little dismissive one liner will you use here?

If the ant eater is from here and is your shining example of the idiot 'target food' the ant is from here or neither are from here.

If man farming means he is not from here then neither is the ant.

So your whole idiotic fantasy never stands up to any tests at all.

So now this is where you answer with nothing more than your total ignorant lack of knowledge of the world around you.

reply to post by MrXYZ

I don't ignore it...but I admit we can't explain...as opposed to you filling that gap in knowledge with magic and pseudo-science

So you call it pseudo science when its supernatural.

reply to post by colin42


Cool so I was right, little to no processes needed to use the aphid.

I wouldn't have believed the milking part but it doesn't matter, the fact is its still a target food.

You also missed the important part of your ex text that you chose to share. The aphids are harvested like cows, not milked like cows. You just made an assumption because they were using cows in the context and milking them for honeydew that they also meant they got milked like cows.

Either way is good, as the aphid is still a target food. I don't care if he got slaughtered like the cow, hes still a target food.

Also ants harvesting like we do farms have NOTHING to do with each other. They didn't learn it from us, and we probably didn't learn it from them. And if we did, then it wasn't an instinctive quality that would prove that earth is our home.

You seem to be under the notion that proving earth is out home as a possibility, when its not. Just look around you, and see how we seperate ourselves from the rest of the life on this planet. We might try to get closer to nature sometimes, but thats only because we feel the need to want to fit in, it doesn't mean that it works. You have NEVER presented a single shred of evidence that proves we are from here. There is no proof that the ant is from here, your making assumptions, as usual. Nice try, but you failed again.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by colin42

 

Cool so I was right, little to no processes needed to use the aphid.

I wouldn't have believed the milking part but it doesn't matter, the fact is its still a target food.

Ants have to:

1. Find or breed the Aphids.
2. Move them to rich feeding grounds.
3 Tend them
4. Protect them.
5. Milk them.
6. Transport the honeydew back to the nest.
7. Distribute the honeydew.

Seems like plenty of processes to me.

So it took you around 3 minutes to consider my point and then write your dismissal in total.

1.You did not read the link.
2. Consider my points
3. Answer my points.
4. Provide an opposing argument

Proving my point you are just one huge trolling waste of time

Edit: Adding your idiotic attempt to give answer afterwards only illustrates you know full well you never give honest consideration to any point made.

All you ever do is try to make a smart dismissal which believe me, you do not have the capacity for.

reply to post by itsthetooth
In response to your edit

You also missed the important part of your ex text that you chose to share. The aphids are harvested like cows, not milked like cows.

As I said if you had taken the time to read it my Ex Text stated;

The ants farm the aphids much like cows milking them for the honeydew that aphids secrete.

Nothing about harvesting them. So your reply is not to the information I supplied.

As you show you did not even bother to follow the link supplied it goes on to say:

Ants protect aphids from natural enemies by either destroying the eggs of predators like the ladybug, or in some cases directly attacking the predator in a herd. This is done because aphids provide a necessary food source for the ants, and are farmed and raised by the ants much like humans raise cattle.

Either way is good, as the aphid is still a target food. I don't care if he got slaughtered like the cow, hes still a target food.

Your problem here is the ant does not slaughter the Aphid. The ant farms it much as we do dairy cattle. So the ant cannot be from here going by your criteria.

Ergo the ant eater is not from here even though you claim he has a 'target food'. So how does your childish, ignorance based term prove anything other than your total lack of knowledge?

reply to post by itsthetooth

You seem to be under the notion that proving earth is out home as a possibility ........................ blar ............blar

Not interested in what you have to preach today. I asked for a reasoned reply to the points I made. You failed as usual.

TIP: don’t bother to preach your nonsense to me. I am not interested. Answer the points I make or ignore them as you always do

I wouldn't have believed the milking part but it doesn't matter, the fact is its still a target food.

This shows how much notice you take of any post.

I and others spent many pages explaining how the ant 'milks aphids' and cultivates crops even to the point of the ant using pesticides. So how Ants milking Aphids comes as a surprise to you underlines you blank out anything that does not fit your fantasy world view.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

I don't ignore it...but I admit we can't explain...as opposed to you filling that gap in knowledge with magic and pseudo-science

So you call it pseudo science when its supernatural.

Call it "tooth's super funtime fantasy land" if you'd like, doesn't change the fact that it isn't backed up by objective evidence...ergo, you (or the people you quote) simply make stuff up, just like you made up "target food"

reply to post by colin42

Ants have to:

1. Find or breed the Aphids.
2. Move them to rich feeding grounds.
3 Tend them
4. Protect them.
5. Milk them.
6. Transport the honeydew back to the nest.
7. Distribute the honeydew.

How much of this have you made up or missunderstood? Are you sure your not stretching things AGAIN! I want to see some info on this.

Seems like plenty of processes to me.

So it took you around 3 minutes to consider my point and then write your dismissal in total.

1.You did not read the link.
2. Consider my points
3. Answer my points.
4. Provide an opposing argument

I didn't have to, its still a target food.

Proving my point you are just one huge trolling waste of time

Edit: Adding your idiotic attempt to give answer afterwards only illustrates you know full well you never give honest consideration to any point made.

All you ever do is try to make a smart dismissal which believe me, you do not have the capacity for.

Ants breeding aphids, your such a fool.

reply to post by colin42

You also missed the important part of your ex text that you chose to share. The aphids are harvested like cows, not milked like cows.

As I said if you had taken the time to read it my Ex Text stated;
The ants farm the aphids much like cows milking them for the honeydew that aphids secrete.
Nothing about harvesting them. So your reply is not to the information I supplied.

Sure, but this mataphor doesn't mean they are running aphid farms in the sense that your thinking. You just take everything so literal and its not meant that way.

As you show you did not even bother to follow the link supplied it goes on to say:
Ants protect aphids from natural enemies by either destroying the eggs of predators like the ladybug, or in some cases directly attacking the predator in a herd. This is done because aphids provide a necessary food source for the ants, and are farmed and raised by the ants much like humans raise cattle.

Sounds more like they are inadvertantly protecting them as a result of protecting their nest.

Either way is good, as the aphid is still a target food. I don't care if he got slaughtered like the cow, hes still a target food.

Your problem here is the ant does not slaughter the Aphid. The ant farms it much as we do dairy cattle. So the ant cannot be from here going by your criteria.

Ergo the ant eater is not from here even though you claim he has a 'target food'. So how does your childish, ignorance based term prove anything other than your total lack of knowledge?

Oh I see, because you made the assumption that only species from earth will have target food.

reply to post by colin42

You seem to be under the notion that proving earth is out home as a possibility ........................ blar ............blar

Not interested in what you have to preach today. I asked for a reasoned reply to the points I made. You failed as usual.

TIP: don’t bother to preach your nonsense to me. I am not interested. Answer the points I make or ignore them as you always do


I wouldn't have believed the milking part but it doesn't matter, the fact is its still a target food.

This shows how much notice you take of any post.

I and others spent many pages explaining how the ant 'milks aphids' and cultivates crops even to the point of the ant using pesticides. So how Ants milking Aphids comes as a surprise to you underlines you blank out anything that does not fit your fantasy world view

It doesn't come as any type of a suprise at all. The ONLY thing it tells is that the ant and aphid are obviously from the same place, but by no means does that mean earth.

reply to post by MrXYZ

Call it "tooth's super funtime fantasy land" if you'd like, doesn't change the fact that it isn't backed up by objective evidence...ergo, you (or the people you quote) simply make stuff up, just like you made up "target food"

Go on, keep making a fool out of yourself.

I allready shared the definition of supernatural proving that those things can't be proven by regular scientific means.

reply to post by itsthetooth

How much of this have you made up or missunderstood? Are you sure your not stretching things AGAIN! I want to see some info on this.

I have supplied you loads of links showing all the things I listed. Typical of you that you do not address any of the points made and answer with an ignorance based, one line dismissal. What's up. Have you no real answers?

Sure, but this mataphor doesn't mean they are running aphid farms in the sense that your thinking. You just take everything so literal and its not meant that way.

The ants farm the aphids. It is not a metaphor. Another word you do not understand.

Sounds more like they are inadvertantly protecting them as a result of protecting their nest.

You are just too dense to actually read the information I supplied. It describes exactly what the ants are doing.

Oh I see, because you made the assumption that only species from earth will have target food.

Another one of your pathetic excuses. You made the assumption about the existence of target food for which you have no proof.

You cannot even say that ants and therefore the anteater are from earth yet hold this creature as your proof.

To sum up. Your answers are as usual pathetic and you are once again DISMISSED.

reply to post by colin42

How much of this have you made up or missunderstood? Are you sure your not stretching things AGAIN! I want to see some info on this.

I have supplied you loads of links showing all the things I listed. Typical of you that you do not address any of the points made and answer with an ignorance based, one line dismissal. What's up. Have you no real answers?

Sorry about that Colin, I honestly didn't see the link, I went back and read it. An aphid would still be a target food regardless of the differences pointed out.

Sure, but this mataphor doesn't mean they are running aphid farms in the sense that your thinking. You just take everything so literal and its not meant that way.

The ants farm the aphids. It is not a metaphor. Another word you do not understand.

Either way, its not shocking, I know of some stranger things that ants have done. These appear to be more like zombie aphids.

Sounds more like they are inadvertantly protecting them as a result of protecting their nest.

You are just too dense to actually read the information I supplied. It describes exactly what the ants are doing.

No its ok for the worker ant to have the processes, I'm not seeing anything redundant about them.

Oh I see, because you made the assumption that only species from earth will have target food.

Another one of your pathetic excuses. You made the assumption about the existence of target food for which you have no proof.

Well I haven't needed to put much thought into it, as one alone is proof it exists right? Either way millet seed for parakeets looks like a main item for target food, and kelp for the abalone.

You cannot even say that ants and therefore the anteater are from earth yet hold this creature as your proof.

To sum up. Your answers are as usual pathetic and you are once again DISMISSED.

Thats because you assume that balance is only suppose to happen to one planet. You see this goes much deeper than just figuring out what food is intended for a species. All planets are started with this type of balance.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
Well your making an assumption that someone has to be behind the structure, just like I make the assumption that evolution couldn't exists without a creator behind it either.

No, Tooth, You are making the assumption that someone has to be behind it, because you are saying that the food was specifically intended for that species to eat! Intent is an intelligent emotion, which requires an intelligent mind. Who are you assigning the intent to? Whoever it is, that's where your assumption is and why you are dead wrong.

So I ask, and I believe this is about the 5th time that I have, what did we evolve into eating?

Proteins, fruits, vegetables and grains, and we're perfectly suited to eat those as well as harvest/hunt them because of our intelligence, bipedalism and opposable thumbs. It's just as valid as your ant eater example. Humans hunt and harvest to their strengths just like ant eaters do. Oh, digging is not a process, but harvesting food is. That's a double standard.

reply to post by Barcs

No, Tooth, You are making the assumption that someone has to be behind it, because you are saying that the food was specifically intended for that species to eat! Intent is an intelligent emotion, which requires an intelligent mind. Who are you assigning the intent to? Whoever it is, that's where your assumption is and why you are dead wrong.

Well I never said there was a person of sorts behind any of the target food. Would you not agree that since evolution has created possiblly over a billion species that you could say there is an intent to make new species. I find it hard to believe there is not.

So I ask, and I believe this is about the 5th time that I have, what did we evolve into eating?

Proteins, fruits, vegetables and grains, and we're perfectly suited to eat those as well as harvest/hunt them because of our intelligence, bipedalism and opposable thumbs. It's just as valid as your ant eater example. Humans hunt and harvest to their strengths just like ant eaters do. Oh, digging is not a process, but harvesting food is. That's a double standard.

Now hold on here, you can't just throw the four basic food groups at me and claim thats what we evolved into eating.

It's like claiming the anteater is made for protien, while ants might be a protien, you need to narrow it down. We as humans also need protien but we don't eat ants, at least as a regular part of our diet, or any part for that matter. So you have to narrow it down.

Let me give you another example. The anteaters ears are fine tuned for hearing ants, not protien, his claws are made to tear up ant hills not claw protien, his snout specifically detailed in sniffing out ants, not protien, and his tounge specifically made to grab ants from afar, not protien.

So since he has evolved, we too should have evolved. He is a fine tuned instrument for harvesting and eating ants, what are we fine tuned for?

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by Barcs

 

So since he has evolved, we too should have evolved. He is a fine tuned instrument for harvesting and eating ants, what are we fine tuned for?

You are implying that its all under design. Evolution has two disctinct "pathways" - Evolution by Chance or Evolution by Nessessity.

Not all creatures are "tuned for", only animals with single target diets are "tuned for" extracting said nutrient, your ant-eater you have mentioned a few times, its diet is soley ants and other ant like insects:

Anteaters live largely on ants and termites, which their long, tube-shaped nose allows them to locate by smell. The Iwokrama Forest website states that they also eat grubs. The largest member of the anteater family, the giant anteater, can eat up to 35,000 insects a day, according to National Geographic.

I could surmise that its evolution was because of this dietry need (Evolution by Nessessity). However creatures of omnivore descent (humans) we do not have specialized biological equipment because we have simply "do not have a need for it" (So no evolution by nessessity). If a food source drys up we go out and find a different source. Now couple this with human technology we no longer need to hunt or adapt to get food, we head on down to the store and buy it.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Call it "tooth's super funtime fantasy land" if you'd like, doesn't change the fact that it isn't backed up by objective evidence...ergo, you (or the people you quote) simply make stuff up, just like you made up "target food"

Go on, keep making a fool out of yourself.

I allready shared the definition of supernatural proving that those things can't be proven by regular scientific means.

Which is why there is NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE behind any of your claims