Want real change? Easy solution....Don't vote!

reply to post by intelligenthoodlum33

No ALWAYS vote but spoil it instead. I don't know about the US but in the UK spoilt votes are counted and the numbers decalred with the result, imagine this result:

I a.n.other being duly elected as the returning officer for the blah blah constituency do hereby declare the following result:
John Jones, Conservative - 1238
Simon Smith, Labour - 1145
Thomas Telford , Liberal Democrat - 230
The number of spolit votes cast was 11,456...............................sheesh

There is no way in hell any candidate can stand as MP with any authority. They would be hounded forever as the representative of practically nobody. A vote like that could never be ignored.

Love it!! I am now officially a "non-voter". I will no longer participate in this sham, and I have every right to complain.

If nobody voted in the upcoming presidential election, then the House of Representatives chooses a president by majority vote. I'm not sure they would do any worse than the voters, who are every bit as deluded as they are. Here we have at least 10 people running for this most important office, but our media brainwashes us into thinking that there are only two.

It is disgusting, misleading, manipulative, and evil. I want no part of it. Not to mention those Diebold computerized voting machines, which I trust about as far as I could throw one.

My honest feeling is that it doesn't matter which puppet we get in office, we're screwed either way. I don't believe that elections at this level are honest anymore.

Why people think that "it will be different this time" is beyond me. It's like we collectively have Alzheimer's.

isn't that what the republicans are trying to do with these voter suppression laws in all of these states?
i want every every american adult TO vote. the republicans worst nightmare is giving voting power to all american people. they don't want the poor, and middle class "others" to have any power. they have become the bullys, the problem creators, the fear-mongers. i can't stand to listen to them anymore, because all they talk about is how bad our country is, how the word "compromise" has become a vulgar word, how everyone that does not agree with them, are traitors, and anti-american....and the most delusional part .......THEY PUBLICLY SAY THEY'RE PROUD TO BE LIKE THAT!!
i own and have read this book years ago, and i read parts of it from time to time, and there seems to be developing a surreal connection to "it's" not too distant history...the book, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Riech" by author, William l. Shirer, Simon & Shuster 1960...this should be mandatory reading in schools across the country, it gives a outline on how to fool and manipulate a countries citizentry

It's of my opinion that a Non-vote is the worst form of public disdain. This isn't the local grocery store that is selling bad products and needs to be boycotted. Apathy in the form of a non-vote basically condones everything that is going on. It is basically saying, Yes! I like the current trend and fully support it.

Don't get me wrong I used to think a non vote would be something. But in order for it to work, you need 300 million people in this country to not vote. Good luck with that, because, I know people that whole-heartedly believe that their vote is their voice in this representative republic.

I don't care if votes are rigged. I don't care that my vote doesn't count. I'm exercising my rights by voicing who I think should be elected. The beauty of it all...there's a write in spot. And like a previous poster has said there's always the vote "NO" on a candidate.

The other thing is, elections aren't just about electing a president this election cycle. There are also the local issues that are voted on. Such as tax increases, mill levy's, city councilors, propositions on stuff that REALLY matters. Stuff that YOU as a constituent of your local area have the most voice about changing something. A non-vote for local elections is absolutely disgusting in my opinion. Because, YES, you have no right to moan or complain at the local level because you didn't vote.

Anyway....this does piss me off quite a bit, that you let the system win. Roll over and die already. I don't care if you think "democracy is dead". Until a better system is invented, this form of government has worked pretty flawlessly for the 200 or so years its been around.

Also, I will not star nor flag this thread. This thing deserves no attention. And I will not be checking on it either. So flame away, I couldn't care less. Just wanted to vent and voice my frustrations about apathetic people that complain about the system they don't get involved in.

reply to post by yorkshirelad


They would likely just not report actual numbers, but do as obama is trying to do and confuse people with percentages

If you haven't.. Watch this.. Pretty good..

www.imdb.com...

Originally posted by Akuhei
Yes, it's a complete and utter sham, but you know what? If you don't vote for someone, you don't have the right to complain about whoever the president is after they take office. If you don't vote, the talking heads will get into office anyway. You're just displaying complacency with the system.

You don't exercise your right to vote, you might as well have lost it altogether.

So if i chose to NOT vote for either crook number 1 or crook number 2 who oppresses me and steals the fruits of my labors against my will among their many other crimes because I do not endorse crime under color of law I cannot complain about said crime? Come on people think... Where did such cliche statements first get implanted in your mind?

Refusing to participate in fraud does not negate ones right to complain about the fraud!

Originally posted by Akuhei
Yes, it's a complete and utter sham, but you know what? If you don't vote for someone, you don't have the right to complain about whoever the president is after they take office. If you don't vote, the talking heads will get into office anyway. You're just displaying complacency with the system.

You don't exercise your right to vote, you might as well have lost it altogether.

That is the same response I hear from everyone who bashes conscious non-voters
You need to realize that you have the right to "not vote" as well...

Besides...why would you vote at all if none of the running candidates, or their respective party platforms and donors are appealing to you?

Low voter turnout is the only way to change the way things are done...it takes time, but nothing else has worked yet. It seems to just get more and more corrupt...to the point where corruption is the norm and almost expected of our government.

This election has been made into a reality TV show...only except this show is on every channel...all the time.
It's obvious...seems so scripted.

We shall call this "Dancing with the Presidential Hopefuls"...I'll be willing to bet that the call-in votes would be more accurate than anything the Govt. has in place.

What happens if less than 1/3 of eligible voters vote? We could declare the election to be illegitimate.

"but still have to choose, and choosing not to choose is still a choice -- sometimes silence is a powerful voice" -- Canibus

Did not have time to go through the entire thread before posting, so if someone has already mentioned this, apologies for a 2nd liner.

But hey..

1. Voting is important, if you want to continuously "participate" in this system

2. Voting becomes irrelevant, when you want nothing more than to see the whole system "collapse"

I think the OP chose number 2, so you guys don't have to keep telling him how "voting" is so important.

Originally posted by truthseeker84
Did not have time to go through the entire thread before posting, so if someone has already mentioned this, apologies for a 2nd liner.

But hey..

1. Voting is important, if you want to continuously "participate" in this system

2. Voting becomes irrelevant, when you want nothing more than to see the whole system "collapse"

I think the OP chose number 2, so you guys don't have to keep telling him how "voting" is so important.

Damn right I want to see this system collapse. Do you like rampant corruption?

Truth is we need a completely different system. How else could we accomplish that?

Originally posted by yeahright

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Yes, by all means let's really "show them" with our crippling apathy. It does have the advantage of negating any particular need to be informed and aware, so at least it doesn't require any particular effort. In fact, its entire premise is the antithesis of effort. A perfect movement for today's instant gratification couch potato. That'll change things, all right, I guarantee. But then, I've been there before.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

It has nothing to do with not wanting to make the effort of being informed and aware. It's about I'm not playing the game anymore. I'm not taking part in some rich elitists fantasy of manipulating the system to their benefit, and to the detriment of my fellow countrymen.You know what I see? I see thousands of Americans homeless, all the while there are thousands of vacant homes continuously uninhabited. I see millions of Americans at or near financial destitution, all the while the rich get richer. I see thousands upon thousands of Americans being incarcerated for victimless crimes, all the while private companies profit off of their stolen freedom. I see large private companies steal the wealth of the common people, and turn around and stonewall congress when questioned about their activities. I see thousands of Americans giving their lives in the Middle East while private companies tremendously profit off of the stolen resources. I see a city like Detroit where d@mn near half of the population cannot properly read or write. Effort? You know what effort gets you? Ask the occupy movement what effort gets you. Beaten and pepper sprayed by law enforcement, and demonized by the media. Falsified claims that they just want a free ride, when all they really want is a fair slice of the pie. You ever notice how when the mob starts making waves about wanting even the simplest of things the wealthy attack their character? Have fun with those elections this year. I'm sure when they are over the country will immediately be better. Me, I'm not holding my breath. Garbage in, garbage out. You give me a leader worth something, and I'll be the first in line to give them my support.

Wow... just wow.... Do you even know how the election process works??? and I know it's not just you... almost everyone I talk to on a continued basis believes their vote matters

Every... and I mean Every vote that is cast on November 6, 2012 (or by mail prior) is considered the "Popular Vote" and means NOTHING in selecting the President, it's just that, a "Popularity Vote". This is why Ron Paul has stopped "wasting" money going from state to state.

The "Electoral Vote" decides the President, PERIOD, and what I'm hoping is that RP supporters have established themselves in this system to make "the cut".

.GOV site that explains the Electoral College

The Electoral College is a process, not a place. The founding fathers established it in the Constitution as a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens.

Meaning the FF didn't want to give the power to Congress (probably due to corruption) or the American public (probably due to thinking they are simple minded in the realm of politics)

Oh.... and yes I vote.... to show my support for the individual with true interest in the American people.... not for the lesser of two evils, because it's still a vote for evil

reply to post by GD21D

I'm taking a different approach. Here in Texas we just had the run-off between David Dewhurst and Ted Cruz. Dewhurst has been our Lieutenant Governor and is a career politician. He raised LOTS of money, so much money that it was glaringly apparent that he had a lot of CORPORATE sponsorship. Cruz raised some $13+ million LESS dollars, indicating to me that he had virtually no corporate sponsorship. We got full color, glossy 'smear Cruz' flyers in the mail from Dewhurst for weeks on end. Nothing in the mail from Cruz. Dewhurst had tons of "I endorse this message" ads on television in prime time hours. Cruz had none, though there was a group who did an ad for him but he did not endorse it as he did not sponsor it, neither did he have the money to pay for it. Republicans both? I didn't care - one of them was, potentially, going to represent ME in the Senate. One a RINO and one a Tea Party? I'm neither, but i didn't care - one of them was, potentially, going to represent ME in the Senate.

My personal opinion is that Cruz *might* be the man, of the two choices, that had the LEAST amount of corporate sponsorship. I want corporate interests and lobbying OUT of our government, so I voted for Cruz. A whole lot of us did and Cruz won. I've already looked into Paul Sadler (D); he's another career politician, so though I'm Independent, this year I'm an (R). Maybe in 2014 I'll lean toward (D)s?

On the County levels, I tended to go with the newcomers - the ones who went door to door out here in the middle of nowhere, knocked and spent a few minutes talking to folks, personally. There's an opening to ask them questions, watch their body language and their eyes. It was the doorknockers who got my vote - not the fancy, high end sign stickers who can't be bothered to meet their potential constituents. So far, this coming election, I know of only ONE incumbent that I intend to stick with but that guy STILL comes home and talks to us and calls us and lets us know he's there and he's real.

The system CAN be changed, but WE must be the ones who change it. WE must research the individuals and forget the letters at the end of their names. There are some good Republicans and some good Democrats and some good Independents and some good Libertarians, etc. It is up to US to ferret out the potentially good ones, vote them in and then watch them like hawks. If they get swayed and go dirty, vote 'em out next time or demand recall.

If we show them that we're watching and we WILL vote them out, things WILL begin to change. Nothing is changing because not enough are getting voted OUT. They get in and public apathy lets them stay until they're so corrupt they're beyond salvageable.

Our problem is sort of a trifecta of crap that most participate in on one level or another: 1) We have those who color in the names that sound familiar to them resulting in crooks keeping their seats in Congress for decades, growing massively wealthier from lobbyists and not giving a rip about US; 2) We have those who vote the letter (R) or (D), "Because my Daddy did;" and 3) we have those who wrongly think there's nothing they can do, so they do nothing.

While I respect the right of anyone who chooses not to vote, I must say that I believe you have much more power than you're giving yourself permission to use. You CAN make a difference. It may take 2 or 3 election cycles, but if we get the rid of the long-timers whose voting records are there for us to see and know they're not doing it for us and replace them - and then replace the replacement, etc - If we keep the few who ARE doing what we want done - eventually, we WILL prevail.

One town tried 3 years ago to get rid of (D)s and (R)s to force people to LOOK at the individual, but look what our DOJ did!: DOJ forces Party Labels! Can't have that! So, since we can't "have" it, we must TAKE it.

Just because we're given two main Presidential choices does NOT mean we, the citizens of this Country, HAVE to vote for one of them. As another said, what if we all voted for Ron Paul, for example? While he *might* not be everyone's favorite, he's certainly up front and honest. He's never voted against the Constitution. He believes the Federal government is too invasive and States need to take back powers. THAT would be a good start. Then people could begin voting with their feet.

Don't like gay marriage? Move to a State that doesn't allow it. Do believe in legalized marijuana? Move to a State that legalizes it.

It is the apathy and the defeatist attitude that is killing us. It is the belief that we must choose from the 2 'main' players they give us. We don't have to do that. What we DO need to do is encourage one another to dig deep, look at records, and fully participate.

There's 300 million of us and we're letting less than 600 control us. Doesn't that seem pretty stupid?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
Regardless of what you vote, the electoral college has the final say anyway. The US is a representative democracy, not a direct-democracy, and if your so-called representatives are bought and paid for (lobbyism) then it's time to try a different approach.

The US is a Representative Constitutional Republic not a "Democracy" I wish people would get that straight.

I agree with some of what you've said but IMHO if you havent served or excised your right to vote then you have no place to bitch moan or complain.

It's kind of like you were in a horrible car accident, lost both your legs, and when you show up to the doctor they offer you a new arm.

I kind of agree with the OP.

You don't really get to exercise much of anything. Besides the feeling you are making some kind of choice. But if it were really like that, I could nominate my neighbour.

Swell guy....

everybody in america vote for yourselves as a write in.

don't be lazy, the president makes $400,000 a year and gets healthcare that he doesn't pay for, the taxpayers do.

wait, isn't that socialism.

don't give a stranger the consent to rule over you; you'll just end up angry when they don't listen to you and don't behave like your servants.

reply to post by yeahright
I wasn't anywhere near finished I'm more than happy to continue. Lets resume with the link to the quoted post you mentioned.

Do you honestly think you have a chance of getting anything close to a 0 turnout? Highly unrealistic to even contemplate the likelihood of that (a) being implemented or (b) having an impact. We're already down to about 50% of eligible voters voting.

With friends like you who needs enemies. What's even more glaring is the fact you're a moderator on this site. With the amount of information you get on a daily basis you should be leading the charge. This is not to say every bit of information is correct on this site, but you've been privy to more relevant information than the general populace gets for years. You have to know something is very, very wrong here. You should know that if voting actually meant anything it would have been outlawed a long time ago. You think for a second these men are going to leave their vast fortunes to chance? I expect that compliant attitude from my 70 year old grandmother who's completely indoctrinated, but I expect more from individuals such as yourself.So I guess the only option is to continue doing what we've done for years? It's working right? We've tried you're way, and it has failed miserably. It hasn't even come close to being a success. I don't need conjecture to come to that conclusion. I have unemployment, debt, and education numbers that prove that point. Maybe, just maybe we should try something else for a change. Maybe a different avenue of approach? If we as a collective country were a head coach of a professional sports team we would have been fired a long time ago, You know, that guy that says wait until next year, year after year. If we can only get that prize free agent. Informed on issues? What issues are we talking about here? Social? Economic? Foreign? This is exactly what got us in the situation we're currently in. The polarization of the populace though partisan politics. This is exactly what has divided the country while the wealthy have taken advantage of the situation. While we're fighting over things such as abortion, gay rights, and immigration the wealthy are getting policies passed to become even more wealthy.I do not know you so I have to refrain from commenting on the effort you have put into the occupy protests and such. I would hope that you would show me the same respect. By your comments you're doing nothing more than propping the system up. We're just spinning our wheels here as a nation, we're not gaining any traction and it's frustrating. It's absolutely absurd that we even have to have a debate on the relevance of voting. Even if every citizen were well versed on the policies it would be the same men, pushing the same agendas. The one thing I will concede is that if the populace was well informed they may snap out of the trance that they're currently in. It's like I'm in a completely different dimension than everyone else. Sometimes I question my own sanity.And I very much agree that people should take advantage of local voting. Furthermore, I think there should be more of an emphasis on it. That local voting isn't going to mean much if big government can come in and override the consensus of the citizens. Ask California on that medical m!@#$%, and Arizona on that immigration bill. Does this mean that those bills passed were right? That's not for me to say, I'm not an Arizona or California resident. Different cultures, different issues take precedence. All in all I'm sure there are plenty of things we agree about, and plenty of things we don't agree about. At least we're passionate enough to strongly defend our views. For that I commend you. I surely don't have all the answers, and I'm sure there is plenty I'm wrong about. I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. It's how we learn. Thanks for the debate, this was a good venting for me. I wholeheartedly give my appreciation to the open ears.To quote my favorite comedian from the past decade "Fool me once sham on you. Fool me twice......well you can't get fooled again.

Originally posted by GD21D
So I guess the only option is to continue doing what we've done for years? It's working right?