FBI raids homes in search of "anti-government literature"

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

From the posts I have seen from you there is no common ground. Compromise is a bad word in your vocabulary, much like the typical teaparty members I have encountered in real life, and most are racist, evangelical christians.

Is this your idea of "continuing to disregard" my posts? When all else fails and you can't come up with a rebuttal against the argument, attack the person who has made the valid argument!

Logical fallacies have nothing at all to do with the rule of law.

And disregarding common sense makes you the high road to take? Where I have failed to answer an argument, you have accused me of being ignorant. I am ignorant of the law, I haven't studied it, but I am not ignorant of real life, I have lived that. Your so called "valid argument" has failed. Based on the charges in the federal search warrant, the FBI was authorized to look for that type of info to use as evidence. The OP of this thread is a fraud for using the headline that he did. You and your logical fallacies can pound sand and have a nice day, I deal with reality everyday of the week, and don't have time to imagine or make up stuff. It might help if you you ventured out from behind the keyboard and experienced real life once in a while. The only reason I know you don't, there is no one who has experienced real life could support Romney.

Originally posted by Dizrael

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Dizrael

second, if the punishment is so leinent people dont care and commit the crime anyways, then i guess that means the crime DOESNT fit the punishment at all.

so maybe we need to make a few examples.

Ok I'm sorry if you didn't post that. Strange, maybe the quote boxes were mixed up?

What do you mean if the punishment isn't harsh enough to stop the crime's commission we need to up the ante?

Murder still happens even though we have the death penalty.
Should we make examples of these petty criminals and put the death penalty on even the smallest of crimes to "stop them from happening"?

Obviously, these punishments do not deter crime at all. Had they, murder would never had been a problem historically as death was a likely result if caught.

There is no logical reason for you to wish such negative upon your countrymen, unless of course, you hate your political opponents so much that you are willing to sacrifice your own freedoms just to watch them rot in jail.

This self-defeating mentality will lead us all to prison for the most absurd of things, like belonging to the wrong political group.

i dont HATE anyone. but i am tired of the crime and needless bull that happens. we either need to "up the ante" as you said, or figure something else out. this stuff needs to stop. im all for freedom of speech and protesting. but we, as humans, make what i call the "stupid human herd" when we get together in those situations and things get out of hand. it only takes 1 or 2 to say, lets tip this cop car, before the whole croud is up in arms and police are in riot gear and things like this happen after the fact.

So you're calling for harsher punishments regarding anti-government literature and possibly spray painting, but ignoring the numerous and countless examples of government officials, politicians and law enforcement committing far worse crimes and repeatedly overstepping their boundaries, pertaining to the constitution they've sworn to uphold?

We have government and law enforcement abusing our rights and their authority almost daily, yet you want to bring down the hammer on the average citizen who might not agree with that same government and might have spray painted something on a wall?

Just which of these two is the larger problem?

THIS IS UNFREAKIN BELIEVABLE!

Wait a second, I think I'm having a nightmare!!!!

OH WAIT....I AM NOT DREAMING!

For those of you who don't quite understand what this means, YOU BEST WAKE-UP!

Edit: And yes I've read the posts...If you can’t see that there is something more going on here, you are seriously ignorant….!

Originally posted by Propulsion
THIS IS UNFREAKIN BELIEVABLE!

Wait a second, I think I'm having a nightmare!!!!

OH WAIT....I AM NOT DREAMING!

For those of you who don't quite understand what this means, YOU BEST WAKE-UP!

Have you actually read any of this post, it was part of federal search warrant. They didn't invade anyone's house just looking for anti government literature, WTF headlines get you koolaid drinkers every time, you don't read anything and just respond. Asshats celebrate I have written an anti obama thread.

reply to post by BubbaJoe

And disregarding common sense makes you the high road to take?

Anyone with common sense would know with my last post that I wasn't disregarding common sense, only your claim to have a handle on it.

Where I have failed to answer an argument, you have accused me of being ignorant.

The first argument I made to you was that rights are not given. You ignored that. I then argued that the FBI better have damn good probable cause to collect literature of which you replied by insisting I prove they don't have probable cause. You followed that with an off topic rant about your feelings about me that had nothing to do with the topic. I then made the argument to your demand that I prove the FBI didn't have probable cause that the burden of proof lies with the court party asserting it and in this site (court of public opinion) that burden lied with you.

To this you demurred and then fell back on the argument that since the warrant was issued by a federal judge that burden of proof was satisfied. You followed that with an assertion that you didn't have to prove anything at all and then an admission that you don't understand law. Your fall back on a federal judge issuing this warrant was the closest you have come to actually addressing the argument instead of attacking another member.

The issue here is does the government have a right to issue a warrant that seizes literature as a part of a criminal investigation regarding destruction of property. How is literature germane to such a crime? These are the arguments that would serve this thread better than you using this thread to air your emotional outbursts on how you feel about me.

if your government isnt careful, you will end up like the germans after the war.
and all you elites who think they are just following orders will be hung.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by Propulsion
THIS IS UNFREAKIN BELIEVABLE!

Wait a second, I think I'm having a nightmare!!!!

OH WAIT....I AM NOT DREAMING!

For those of you who don't quite understand what this means, YOU BEST WAKE-UP!

Have you actually read any of this post, it was part of federal search warrant. They didn't invade anyone's house just looking for anti government literature, WTF headlines get you koolaid drinkers every time, you don't read anything and just respond. Asshats celebrate I have written an anti obama thread.

edit on 8/1/2012 by BubbaJoe because: to fix a typo

Yes I Have read them...

reply to post by cassiper


Excellent point and one I feel threatened by more so all the time.

Let's Stop the Personal Sniping and snide off topic remarks , Please.


You are free to attack theories, explanations, posts, etc. but not fellow members.



Thanks




*do not respond to this post in thread*

Originally posted by Dizrael
you guy are missing a KEY point here.

clothing and related articles worn during the commision of the offenses. meaning they commited a crime wearing specific clothing, carrying specific flags.... get the picture?

not because they were Anarchists. but because they were criminals.

No, I didn't miss that. I just thought it was smoke blown right up my tail end.
So someone broke out a window somewhere. Ok. Or maybe they ignited a car.

What does what they were maybe reading have to do with it? I have an extensive library here and sell books. No telling what kinda 'literature' I might have that I don't even know I have....ok, but say I go ahead and give the cops the benefit of the doubt about this destruction of property crime....

WTHeck does their COMPUTER have to do with it?

ETA I'll TELL YOU what it has to do with it- it was POLITICAL. They want to get the dirt see who they were in communication with, tie others to the 'anarchist blackity blockity group."

I've seen little fishing lures on FB and social media people talking about being black bloc and how they are so frustrated with change, trying to get others to comment. BE CAREFUL. Why would you wear a mask over your face in the street and proclaim HEY THAT WAS ME on Facebook?

Haha i post anti govt all over facebook everyday, don't be scared people! ill fight them if they try coming to take all my #!

However, not all anarchists are engaged in these types of plots, the FBI acknowledges. They use a “variety of tactics” including “civil disobedience” (such as resisting home foreclosures, creating community gardens, and many other activities not mentioned by the bureau).

The FBI also warns that anarchists may have “crossover ideologies” including animal rights extremism and environmental extremism

FBI

Give it time, and you’ll see this…

"FBI believes a large majority of peoples who partake on conspiracy websites to be "Conspiracy-Anarchist". You must use EXTREME caution when dealing with these people. They may go off the deep end and say what they feel and/or believe".

As for that garden my wife is sharing with the neighbor to save money? It’s always good to know big brother is watching me…

I'm thinking that the end times will not be a battle of Good against Evil. But rather Evil against even more Evil.

I got but one simple sentence for big bro and no one could express it better than good ol' Joe...

Youtube...

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Glad someone actually read the article and didn't fall prey to believing the headline. Headlines are almost always exaggerated, sensationalist lies. They are trying to bait people to click, of course.

It makes it very hard to get down to the bottom of what really happened. One has to "dig" and read the entire article because the headline is almost always distorting of what actually happened.

There's an entire thread on this subject. (Hint hint.)

reply to post by daynight42

Basically, somebody got caught spray-painting government property and that's what this warrant appears to pertain to.

This is what Bonez stated that you seem to be in agreement with. The question, however, remains; what does "anti-government or anarchist literature" have to do with that?

We need to stop doing this to ourselves. The police on a state level, national guard, defense militias, anyone.....needs to stand up to these federal agents in an official capacity.

If ONE state held true and refused to honor the authority of federal agents terrorizing their citizens a valid place to start would be made. That would be enough to avoid a mass revolt. A legitimate place to begin directing support and effort. A CIVIL WAY. GIVE US A CHANCE. IT WILL NOT BE A WASTE. They are violating the contract that grants their authority by doing precisely things like this. The state at that point has no obligation to the union in its federal capacity. D.C. is not even part of the union. If Arizona for example had its state troopers, police, national guard, militias if they have them....all able bodied person in uniform under contract to protect the state against all aggressors. Military personnel.....IN AN OFICIAL CAPACITY....openly protect these citizens in case of the off chance that these federal agents might have over stepped their constitutional limits.

All it would take is one regiment, precinct, whatever....hell a civilian air patrol unit to defy these federal agents on the grounds of lack of authority based on their state constitutional rights. Then what happens after will have a logical outcome.....one in our favor.

It would not only set the clock back on their plans but ultimately cause them to pop a spring. There is a delicate balance and it has never been so stretched. They have never been weaker. They are their most vulnerable.

You think North Carolina state troopers will stand by and see fellow state troopers from south Carolina get arrested by hot shot federal agents pissing all over them after they defend their communities from federal agents serving unconstitutional subpoenas to seize their citizens. Or active duty personnel IN COMMAND in Texas would let some SOB in Colorado arrest a national guard unit for defending a community from illegal search and seizure by federal authorities.....???

NO. I hope not.....I hope you are not traitors to your country over a pay check. You took oaths...all of you.
Uphold those oaths. If not for the ungrateful and undeserving population....do it for your own families that they might inherit as good a world as yourselves. Break free of the falsehood that you are not the ones to defend your country. Have some dignity. Have some self respect. Don't let us go out like this. Stop the federal government from breaking the union. They are overstepping their boundaries and directly hurting your communities. Think of your neighbors, your children's friends. Your old buddies. The people you do like defending.

Whom are you the defender of. Who is your mission to protect. Please don't let us down.
Remember who we are so we can control who we become. If you wear a uniform.....you do so for a reason.....

READ YOUR SLEAVES!

Give us a chance. Give us a place to start. Give us one last chance. One last stand. We are together with you. No one is alone. Have faith and do what you know is right. Protect at least your own communities.

We need you now more than ever. Please, make it all for something. One last chance. TRY. The people are behind you.

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Props for catching that first.
I notice they were also looking for "flares or similar incendiaries".
Something tells me these guys aren't quite the angels the article would like you to believe

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by randomname
why aren't they going after michael moore and noam chomsky.

they release anti-government literature every year.

Good question.

I guess $ = Freedom.

And no $ = No Freedom.

Anyone who knows anything about the so called "legal system" knows this is true and has been for a long time.

Maybe because more of us will take notice and action, but they may not be ready for many of us to take action. Not when their MO all along has been to indoctrinate in small doses [slowly],and why change MO now when it has been so successful up to this point?

I am absolutely stunned and shocked at how many people don't seem to have taken a few moments to carefully read the Warrant line by line and consider it's words.

The devil is in the details and they don't get to pick and choose what they put on it, It tells a lot. Here, we know for instance, they're searching for evidence on PREVIOUS felony actions and it's apparently related to the Mayday protest events by the information surrounding all the circumstances. The Warrant tells us they have more serious things to find though with incendiary devices and flares. Hmm..... The anti-gov blanket just lets them box it by the stack load, anything in sight pretty much and cart it away without sorting on scene.

Anti-Gov stuff in some hands could also be things like the Anarchist Cookbook, just to use one everyone's heard of..and far more serious ones that aren't nearly as well known. To militants, they are instruction manuals for IED's and far more....definitely items the FBI would want to grab from Black Bloc people.


Whatever Black Bloc used to be or used to mean ...or whoever used to use that banner in years gone by, that isn't who it is today. I've personally been around some of these people when I was in Occupy and they are scary people. Very serious and I sure didn't feel confident I knew loyalties or agenda. They aren't people I care to see run wild without adult supervision, per say. Real bad crap could happen without much notice.

They aren't Occupy, in my experience and opinion... Absolutely not. but Black Bloc has been attracted around Occupy, no question whatsoever. Just the views of one person here.....and I'm leaving that about there. I just get a bad feeling all around with those people.