New Tea Party Strategy Wins Texas Senate Seat

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

Jim DeMint, one of Cruz's biggest GOP supporters voted for NDAA, as just one small example.

Some of them have strayed…no doubt. You’d rather bag on TTP as a whole than work to fix it though, so you have no credibility.

TTP is doing more for conservatives than any other group. They’re being proactive and trying to fix the problems in our country. What’s your plan?? Should we cry like babies, break windows and hold signs like the Occupy movement? How much have they accomplished? Should we abandon TTP because DeMint is a fraud??

I'm merely pointing out to you that your premise that this represents any sort of sea change within the GOP is simply not true. Now your carrying on trying to make my critique a partisan one, to avoid the simple truth behind the various figures ive provided. Jim DeMint is big government. Dick Army is 'Big Government'. Your either intentionally perpetuating, or unintentionally parroting a false narrative. The 'tea party' was hijcaked years ago, and in no way represents the small government changes you imply. Furthermore, you arent even addressing the data im giving you.

You seem to be pleased with the RINO's in the GOP so there’s not much more I can say. Obviously you're not a conservative and obviously you want the status quo because you're bagging on the only group accomplishing anything.

I'm 'pleased' with them even though every post of mine in this thread has been critical of them and their tactics?

Your reasoning is severely flawed.

reply to post by stanguilles7

I'm merely pointing out to you that your premise that this represents any sort of sea change within the GOP is simply not true. Now your carrying on trying to make my critique a partisan one, to avoid the simple truth behind the various figures ive provided. Jim DeMint is big government. Dick Army is 'Big Government'. Your either intentionally perpetuating, or unintentionally parroting a false narrative.

Of course it represents change in the GOP! You’re being silly. Just because a few call themselves Tea Party but haven‘t lived up to TP expectations doesn’t mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater. The Tea Party is the PEOPLE…you’re talking about ONE representative and ONE guy who runs a PAC.

I'm 'pleased' with them even though every post of mine in this thread has been critical of them and their tactics?

Your reasoning is severely flawed.

My reasoning is fine. You bash the Tea Party which happens to be the only movement currently challenging the GOP establishment and the left. That would lead me to believe you don’t want any change in the establishment. You’re either a liberal or a RINO and I don’t see much difference.

It’s not that TTP isn’t effective it’s that you don’t like what they stand for, hence the constant attacks. Everyone who keeps up with politics knows that TTP has been a big influence in DC s0 stop perpetuating your lies.

lol, Ted Cruz won because of Ron Paul, plain and simple.

It was Ron Paul who endorsed Cruz during his Texas campus tours, called his entire grassroots movement to show support. It was Ron Paul forces who threw Cruz a money bomb and provided ground support for the actual campaign. It was Ron Paul that drew the tea party to Cruz through himself and his son Rand. The Tea Party endorsements soon followed, of course.

Its cool though Seabag, I don't expect you to ever give Ron Paul any credit, just like the MSM, which has been consistently giving credit to the success of Cruz, to Sarah Palin.

No seriously, I really don't expect it from you but you still had to be corrected.

And for the record, Seabag is right, Ted Cruz and Kurt Bills both won in their perspective states (with Ron Paul endorsing them first of course) and giving them the spotlight vs the establishment endorsed establishment candidates, which lost. Both Cruz and Bills' establishment opponents were even endorsed by Governor Rick Perry and lost by large margins.

We're looking at many more congressional seats across the country to be picked up by Ron Paul's forces in the general election.

We have an extremely anti-FED, Ron Paul republican that is slated to take over a 30 year democratic incumbent seat in Southern California, of all places.

Originally posted by eLPresidente
lol, Ted Cruz won because of Ron Paul, plain and simple.

It was Ron Paul who endorsed Cruz during his Texas campus tours, called his entire grassroots movement to show support. It was Ron Paul forces who threw Cruz a money bomb and provided ground support for the actual campaign. It was Ron Paul that drew the tea party to Cruz through himself and his son Rand. The Tea Party endorsements soon followed, of course.

I'm confused. I dont know much about the specific numbers, but didn't Paul actually lose pretty big in Texas? Wouldnt that imply his support in Texas wouldnt have been much to help push Cruz over the top?

Again, feel free to correct me.

reply to post by eLPresidente

lol, Ted Cruz won because of Ron Paul, plain and simple.

It was Ron Paul who endorsed Cruz during his Texas campus tours, called his entire grassroots movement to show support. It was Ron Paul forces who threw Cruz a money bomb and provided ground support for the actual campaign. It was Ron Paul that drew the tea party to Cruz through himself and his son Rand. The Tea Party endorsements soon followed, of course.

Its cool though Seabag, I don't expect you to ever give Ron Paul any credit, just like the MSM, which has been consistently giving credit to the success of Cruz, to Sarah Palin.

No seriously, I really don't expect it from you but you still had to be corrected.

Good!

Cruz was endorsed by Mark Levin, Hannity, The Tea Party, Palin et al. You think its attributable to RP because if RP came to a sudden stop your head would make contact with his rear.

I’m sure an RP endorsement gave them a bump but to credit their victories to RP is a bit much, sir.

And for the record, Seabag is right, Ted Cruz and Kurt Bills both won in their perspective states with Ron Paul endorsing them first and giving them the spotlight vs the establishment endorsed establishment candidates which lost. Both Cruz and Bills' establishment opponents were even endorsed by Governor Rick Perry and lost by large margins.

So, RP endorsed these two yet there are still people on here who claim that these guys are just GOP business-as-usual neocons?? I think not! If anyone would like to stick with that narrative then explain the RP endorsement...

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

I'm merely pointing out to you that your premise that this represents any sort of sea change within the GOP is simply not true. Now your carrying on trying to make my critique a partisan one, to avoid the simple truth behind the various figures ive provided. Jim DeMint is big government. Dick Army is 'Big Government'. Your either intentionally perpetuating, or unintentionally parroting a false narrative.

Of course it represents change in the GOP! You’re being silly. Just because a few call themselves Tea Party but haven‘t lived up to TP expectations doesn’t mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

A 'few'? Now you're the one being silly. The VAST majority of those elected under the 'tea party' banner in 201o voted for NDAA. Many of them want to start war with Iran. You're clinging to a stolen movement.

“47 of the 66 members of the House Tea Party Caucus” also supported the bill,

www.forbes.com...

The Tea Party is the PEOPLE…you’re talking about ONE representative and ONE guy who runs a PAC.

I've made reference to one guy, who was a major supporter of the guy in your OP. But the list of Tea Party caucus members in the House who have voted for "Big Government" is extensive, and well-documented, if you care to expose yourself to reality.

CISPA Passes The House With Tea Party Support

www.forbes.com...

My reasoning is fine. You bash the Tea Party which happens to be the only movement currently challenging the GOP establishment and the left.

But they aren't. As i've shown you several times, they are fully supportive of 'big government'.You are clearly are ignoring all the evidence.

That would lead me to believe you don’t want any change in the establishment.

Because I am pointing out the problems with the establishment co-opting a movement that once represented change? Again, this makes no sense, and is not supported by the crux of my argument whatsoever.

It’s not that TTP isn’t effective it’s that you don’t like what they stand for, hence the constant attacks.

I see. So you dont mind many, many of them voting for MORE government regulation of the internet?

You are clinging to a lie. Dont attack me. Critique the info I am giving you.

The Tea Party Movement is nothing more than an astroturf organization supported by the rich white Koch brothers who want to cut taxes for more rich white brothers, all the while convincing real life middle class people that their freedoms are being taken away by a black man in the white house. All the while, the tea party folks will take more from their constituents.

reply to post by seabag


So, you support CISPA? NDAA? Because the vast majority of those in the House who are part of the 'tea party caucus' do. That's the 'small government' the tea party represents to you?

reply to post by stanguilles7

I see. So you dont mind many, many of them voting for MORE government regulation of the internet?

You are clinging to a lie. Dont attack me. Critique the info I am giving you.

Of course I mind. Please tell me the alternative, sir. I’ve asked several times.

Why not “cling” to the only group I agree with? What is the alternative? Revolution?? Me an a few thousand right wing fanatics??

Or should I just ASSUME THE POSITION and hope for the best?

reply to post by BubbaJoe

The Tea Party Movement is nothing more than an astroturf organization supported by the rich white Koch brothers who want to cut taxes for more rich white brothers, all the while convincing real life middle class people that their freedoms are being taken away by a black man in the white house. All the while, the tea party folks will take more from their constituents.

Because you also seem to be very cynical I will ask you the same question; what is the alternative??

Share with me the right direction for my anger and distrust with the current system, sir.

Originally posted by seabag


Freedomworks supports candidates who promote TP conservative values:

Less government…

Lower taxes…

More freedom…

Then they made a mistake with the Texas Tea Party. The Tea Party here is full of social conservatives. They love laws that limit the freedom of others if people are acting in a manner that's in disagreement with their religious beliefs.

reply to post by Kaploink

Then they made a mistake with the Texas Tea Party. The Tea Party here is full of social conservatives. They love laws that limit the freedom of others if people are acting in a manner that's in disagreement with their religious beliefs.

Those social conservatives are drawn to the same message that all conservatives are drawn to.

Tell me a single movement where everyone was on the same page on every issue….I’ll wait.

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by eLPresidente
lol, Ted Cruz won because of Ron Paul, plain and simple.

It was Ron Paul who endorsed Cruz during his Texas campus tours, called his entire grassroots movement to show support. It was Ron Paul forces who threw Cruz a money bomb and provided ground support for the actual campaign. It was Ron Paul that drew the tea party to Cruz through himself and his son Rand. The Tea Party endorsements soon followed, of course.

I'm confused. I dont know much about the specific numbers, but didn't Paul actually lose pretty big in Texas? Wouldnt that imply his support in Texas wouldnt have been much to help push Cruz over the top?

Again, feel free to correct me.

First, there is a vote flipping controversy backed by an election judge in Texas, so keep that in mind.

Second, Ron Paul had a lot of support in Texas, many favored him heavily over Romney but the media ignoring him and saying he dropped out did not help. I know this for a fact because I personally called into Texas during the primaries. Out of all of the Texans I called, very little had a negative thing to say about Ron when pitted against Romney, when I told them he was STILL in the race (after the media told them he wasn't) they were surprised and excited.

Ron Paul did in fact bring a lot of excitement to Ted Cruz. Ron Paul still pulled thousands to each of his rallies in Texas and held a special tea party rally with Rand Paul and that is where he officially endorsed Cruz.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

I see. So you dont mind many, many of them voting for MORE government regulation of the internet?

You are clinging to a lie. Dont attack me. Critique the info I am giving you.

Of course I mind. Please tell me the alternative, sir. I’ve asked several times.

Not voting for a re-packaging of the exact same "Big Government' RINO's you claim to oppose might be a good start.

After that? Get involved in local politics. Go to council meetings. Meet with your state representative. But dont just vote for the person who says they are for 'small government' without doing your due diligence and seeing if their claims are true.

And certainly dont attack the messenger who points these facts out to you. Thats just makes you look like you are choosing to cling to illusions at all costs.

Originally posted by seabag

Those social conservatives are drawn to the same message that all conservatives are drawn to.

Tell me a single movement where everyone was on the same page on every issue….I’ll wait.

As an old Reagan Republican, I can tell you they are not drawn to the same messages that other conservatives are drawn too. The Republican party once was the big tent party that accepted all conservatives. You could be a moderate Republican to the most extreme right wing Republican. All were accepted. There was no Rino crap that so popular among Tea Party members now.

So, instead of finding a common message that all Republicans are drawn to, the tea Party wants to drive out any people that doesn't take the same stance on issues. It's a party built on intolerance of other conservatives.

Originally posted by Kaploink

Originally posted by seabag

Those social conservatives are drawn to the same message that all conservatives are drawn to.

Tell me a single movement where everyone was on the same page on every issue….I’ll wait.

As an old Reagan Republican, I can tell you they are not drawn to the same messages that other conservatives are drawn too. The Republican party once was the big tent party that accepted all conservatives. You could be a moderate Republican to the most extreme right wing Republican. All were accepted. There was no Rino crap that so popular among Tea Party members now.

So, instead of finding a common message that all Republicans are drawn to, the tea Party wants to drive out any people that doesn't take the same stance on issues. It's a party built on intolerance of other conservatives.

edit on 1-8-2012 by Kaploink because: meh

What I meant was the social conservatives (the Texas Tea Partiers you described) are drawn to the same message that I described earlier; limited government, less taxes, more freedom, etc.

So you didn’t see a difference between Bush “conservatism” and Reagan conservatism? Do you think Reagan would have passed the Patriot Act?

Being tolerant of the more liberal in our party gave us McCain. The time to compromise is over. It’s conservatism or the highway…either the GOP gets taken over and moved to the right or the GOP will be abandoned by many.

We can’t afford more BS big government! Non-conservative Republicans and Democrats are to blame for this crash course we’re on. Enough compromise…it’s time for a reality check.

Originally posted by seabag

Of course it represents change in the GOP!

What are those changes?

You’re being silly. Just because a few call themselves Tea Party but haven‘t lived up to TP expectations doesn’t mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater. The Tea Party is the PEOPLE…you’re talking about ONE representative and ONE guy who runs a PAC.

It is not just one guy but hey, if you can list all the TEA Party candidates that did live up to the TEA Party expectations I feel we can have a grand old time tearing through that little pile.

reply to post by seabag


Doesn't the tea party/republicans hold the majority in the house? The House of Representatives control the purse of the federal government. The graft you show, every dime was approved by the House, yet you want to blame Obama.

The tea party owners are telling you want you want to hear, but the second they get to Washington its the same old song and dance. These tea partiers you guys elected couldn't even be bothered with sitting threw the reading of the constitution, giving interviews was more important.

Originally posted by seabag
Why not “cling” to the only group I agree with? What is the alternative? Revolution?? Me an a few thousand right wing fanatics??

If the only people that share your thoughts and feelings on this are a few thousand fanatics then you are wrong. That is just that simple. You should know only a handful of nuts agreeing with you is a bad thing. Why do I have to point this out?

reply to post by nunyadammm

It is not just one guy but hey, if you can list all the TEA Party candidates that did live up to the TEA Party expectations I feel we can have a grand old time tearing through that little pile.

I’m not trying to make this personal in anyway…I must ask….who did you vote for in 08’?

Obama?

McCain?

3rd party (whoever that was)?

Nobody?

I’m just not sure what your angle is. It appears to me that you don’t like the conservative agenda or you’re very cynical and trust no one or….you just like to complain while putting forward no solution or alternative of your own.