There's Something Very FISHY About Evolution! Smell it here!

reply to post by TheJackelantern

And yet when you stop touching an apple it goes back to it's original state in regards to thermodynamics. You're making arguments from not understanding the laws of thermodynamics. So unless you put a dent in the apple, its state will pretty much remain the same..

My touching it only changes it by the fact that I interacted with it. The environment does the same each second. The room it is in, the level of the light and so on. It NEVER returns to the same state, even if I didn't touch it. Pick up a pencil and then try to return it to the exact spot you picked it up from. You may think it looks like it is in the same spot, but it is impossible to recreate the same location. Once you put it back, it is thousands of miles away from where it was before. Nothing is at rest in the universe. You may want to reexamine your understanding of states of matter.

My point was not the touch, but the fact that matter is never in the same place or state twice. The law that governs matter is the only thing that can be observed with any certainty. Science can only study law. The thing observed is merely the reflecting point for the observation.

reply to post by TheJackelantern

Sorry the laws can not be written when such things as cognitive systems require the exact same laws to function, exist, or to even produce a flea level of cognition within functional cognitive dynamics.. And the bible doesn't discuss any such topics regarding energy and information, entropy, particle physics ect. Your making a fallacy argument about a polytheistic creation story some how being made with an understanding of systems theory, particle physics, cosmology ect when they hadn't a clue. You're basically trying to conform biblical era to the 21st century as if these people had any education what-so-ever on these scientific fields.. This to which is very dishonest. Sorry, you can't just apply a 21st century lens of thought over the biblical era as if they were the same. It's not even close. Their parables were more about not knowing, and their wonder of the heavens above were of pure ignorance of them.They didn't know what high mass stars were, how fusion works, how the heavier elements are made, what the big bang was ect. Also There is no other base governor than existence itself, and those laws can not be created, they can only be and followed or applied.

You are twisting this as if mankind is superior to a creator who could leave evidence he was here. If we never knew there was a Bible and had arrived at our current advanced condition, we would then view the Bible as astonishingly accurate. Why?

1) God claims to be the creator, therefore he would need to be sufficiently advanced to use light as the main metaphor for quantum mechanics and education. He would need to mention Time, Space, Matter and Energy at some point to be considered relevant. Genesis 1-3 covers all of number one. The very first words uttered identifies the Creator, his process, the dynamics of quantum physics and the prima materia used. I need to point out that your statements fail to notice this first earmark of creation. God verifies Himself on this one, it just took mankind 6000 years to catch up.

2) A Creator would need to show how the primary components are rendered into a universe. By the 27th verse of a book called GENESIS, he has already stated Chaos, the Void that the universe occupies and HydroGenesis being the primary means to the end with water as the main substance of life. Why HydroGenesis? Hydrogen is the mark of water. Water is the mechanism for life. Hydrogen has one proton and one electron in a balanced state of equilibrium. All other matter flows from hydrogen bonds and life is not possible apart form water. How deep into quantum mechanics have we traveled so far? Only 27 verses into the Bible and God has shown nearly everything we know about QM, yet v. 27 then says more than we CURRENTLY think we know.

3) Verse 27 then shows that we are inside an image. Not only this, but the one that calls Himself the Great I AM, then says that we are an image of him by Spirit. Spirit is consciousness and awareness. More than any other animal, we know the self and posses language that organizes to sentient purpose. The word Image is precicly what science now thinks about the space we occupy. We are in a hologram. Even our current dimensional theory suggest that the Higgs Boson is streaming from another dimension in the form of information.

4) We then travel to John 1 where God states that WORD is what engages all life. Not only this, he fills in our missing knowledge about light and how the quantum observer collapses the indeterminate wave of the 5th dimension into the fourth. Unless you have not paid attention, this is the current understanding of our dimensional universe. Our theory is just now catching up with our misinterpretation of the Bible. The same is true for our understanding of science. We are just now seeing the excluded middle between our own failings in reason and the grand design in nature. If you think a bunch of nomads wrote scripture, you are wrong. Their hand but God's pen.

5) DNA is digital information. I could rest my entire case on this alone. Genesis 3 describes two trees. One tree is technology and the other is God's technology of DNA. The tree of life is DNA and the tree of knowledge is what is produced as fruit from the tree of knowledge. As an ultimate verification of these facts, God stated that our production of graven images (remember what an image is) with the tree of knowledge (technology) will kill us and our environment.

6) How can I verify number 5? Revelation says that the mark of mankind is 666. 666 is Carbon (6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons). John in the cave on the island of Patmos could not have know this fact, yet there it is. No amount of our reason will reason this away. He called it the mark of the beast. Who is the beast destroying the Earth with and economic system called Babylon? He then calls it Mystery Babylon. Why? Simple, the pagan mystery schools of Nimrod are the same schools that were trying to build the Pagan tower called Babel. We trace Mystery Schools to the Builders (Masons) and the Moneychangers (Bankers) and the "Experts in the Law" and then verify that our present day is a corruption of all three trying to steal from humanity.

I am sorry to say, but this is a cloud of witness you are going to have a hard time denying. Allow me to save you the trouble and just say, "Deny Ignorance" instead. The more we learn, the faster the law of inverse squares proves that light has a source that is intelligent. The more we know the more we see it clearly.

God is real.

Like I said up top, if we never knew there was a Bible, seeing this for the first time would be astonishing. Where else can you find a description as accurate? Well, science is almost there.

reply to post by aardvark888


I agree, to the uneducated and uninformed it does appear to be designed.

Spend 30 minutes researching Natural Selection and everything may begin to appear more logical.

Evolution is an observable part of intelligent design in my opinion. You can also see Evolution in other ways that are more spiritual in nature. How many times in life have you become a completely different person? How many lives have you lived in one? The whole Universe is evolving all the time, new things come from old things, and new things are completely different. It would be a little illogical to assume that all things that existed just appeared. In their current state that is. The battle between evolution v.s. creationism is a little to black and white for my tastes.
The real truth always seems to lie somewhere in the middle of extremes. and that is just a product of a universe ruled by duality. This is similar to Science v.s. the Occult. Some would assume that science is the truth, and occult is superstition. IMO I think that they are apart of the same thing, and that is yet to be understood by man, or western science. I think we can conclude that there is evidence to support both intelligent design, and Evolution. Lets start looking for the similarities and maybe we can advance further. Its like a puzzle. we need to fit all the pieces together. and BTW intelligent design is not conclusive to an omniscient, omnipotent god. who is to say that the designs on earth were not created by an extraterrestrial, or interdimensional being? and who is to say that they were not created and designed by something higher? Who is to say that they are not at this moment EVOLVING into something similar to what designed them? and who is to say that we are not collectively EVOLVING into something like them? Its hard to say when you are looking up from what seeems to be the bottom of the totem pole. All we can do is keep an open mind, and the universe will reveal when the time comes. Till then Cheers sweetie.

reply to post by MeesterB


I agree mostly with you on this one, I think intelligent design and evolution can both exist, for who says that we humans couldn't have been given a bit of a head start by an intelligent creator, but other things were just given a smaller push and left to evolve on their own.. You know - a combination of the two. The thing that bugs me about the evolution theory is that there is no real explanation for the very very beginning of existence. I mean something cannot just be created from nothing, I don't really buy into the theory of the big bang that much.

Once you start quoting bible verses you have definitely lost my attention though. A book that has been altered unimaginable times over 2000 years (maybe?) cannot provide unquestionable answers for anything.

Genesis 1:1-3 and Genesis 1:27 is what I rest on as a comparison to what science observes.

Genesis states nothing regarding quantum physics to which you are misrepresenting. You're trying to mold modern science to ancient mythology as if it's at all relevant to people who have no knowledge of any of this. It's dishonest and it's entirely an appeal to ignorance. Worse yet, it's stolen from polytheism. And it doesn't end there if you actually read genesis as it is grossly wrong. It asserts Earth was created first before our star, moon, or the stars above, and we all know that is utter nonsense. If you like, I can go over genesis for you on a step by step process.. You're trying to play the answers in genesis game where there are no such "answers".. You let me know when you can find quantum physics being discussed in the bible, or genetics ect..

Genesis 1-3 covers all of number one.

You must really think we are stupid here "/ It discuss no such thing, and worst of all, it's not the only creation story to exist. Your monotheistic version is a ripped copy of the polytheistic version to which preexisted it by hundreds of years.. And it's just basic observation of environment where people believed their gods must have created land, water, animals, sky... They didn't even know they lived on a planet much less have any conceptual clue about the subjects discussed here. For Petes sake they worshiped mountain GODS, and that familiar god in your bible Yahweh to which was a mountain GOD that is more specifically associated with a volcano. This which derived from jahve the midian volcano god worshiped by the shasu of YHW, and more specifically Jethro to whom married is daughter to Moses. It only takes reading the songs of Yahweh to comprehend this.

In this world , there is a male and female and that is a sign for you to take heed.

Civilization wouldn't exist if man lives without a female and vice-versa.

Think about it.


Natural selection figured that it needs a pair to run a civilization?

If you are against the theory of evolution do yourself a favor...UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE AGAINST. Read a book or two. Seriously, listen: you know through your experience as a human being that there are always at least two sides to every controversy. So in order to strengthen your position and debate honestly you need to UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE AGAINST. I hate to say it, but I get the impression that 95% of the individuals in this thread that do not support evolution do not comprehend what actual theory says. Please, I beg you, look into it. If not you'll continue to embarrass yourselves. Also, let's stop holding beliefs (religious/political/whatever) and looking for facts that seemingly support these pre-held beliefs. Allow facts to form your beliefs on reality.

Here, check these out:

Your Inner Fish - Neil Shubin
Why Evolution is True - Jerry Coyne
The Greatest Show on Earth - Richard Dawkins
What Evolution Is - Ernst Mayr
Why Darwain Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design - Michael Shermer

I dare you read only one. UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE AGAINST.

reply to post by HotCopperSkull


I can fully support and back up that notion!!

But in all fairness that position is equally suggesting the other side (your side) read and familiarize themselves with the Bible does it not? And if not, why not.

Just trying to be objective. I myself would rather listen to Richard Dawkins than read the Bible. That said I have done both plenty over the years. So I am safe!

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


the phrase "UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE AGAINST" applies to everybody. I agree with you, and I have familiarized with the arguments of the other side. And every argument I have come across is hollow and most of the time completely ignorant. Truth prevails, even if it is not what I want it to be.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

When Paul speaks of rightly dividing truth, he is referring to Hillel's Seven Rules. The truth that scripture is divided from is the Torah. What follows the Torah can be shown to contain the same heptadic structure as the rest.

Somehow I just knew that since you refused to respond to my question about the intelligence of your designer but you did respond to this that the answer would nothing but meaningless bullcrap.

If you are going to bother responding to me at all, say something.
This was a simple yes or no question and you managed to miss both. You lean to yes with wiggle room. I am sick of religious wiggling.

Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

When Paul speaks of rightly dividing truth, he is referring to Hillel's Seven Rules. The truth that scripture is divided from is the Torah. What follows the Torah can be shown to contain the same heptadic structure as the rest.

Somehow I just knew that since you refused to respond to my question about the intelligence of your designer but you did respond to this that the answer would nothing but meaningless bullcrap.

If you are going to bother responding to me at all, say something.
This was a simple yes or no question and you managed to miss both. You lean to yes with wiggle room. I am sick of religious wiggling.

Someone here on ATS said something to me that was very wise. They said that most people here are looking for a simple answer that can be used to paste over a complicated matter. The problem is, context is necessary. Most of what I write is very detailed because the answer to the problem of confusion is not simple unless you see what is hidden to you by symbolism. Symbols are used because they are efficient. A symbol says more than the space it occupies. Unless you are willing to look, you won't see. A simple yes or no excludes the middle. Yes and no questions are often based on an incorrect premise. I was simply trying to fill you in so you can ask a better question.

Originally posted by EnochWasRightMy book is on classroom management and a calm and assertive approach to preserving the dignity of students with communication. I doubt it has an application here beyond assisting with communication above the level of a middle school student.

Weren't you banned SuperiorEd for posting links here to the website that sells your book?

You present an attack on my position and then fail to provide any context of your own.

Isnt greed enough context?

To equate my argument with a 'political good' holds no water unless you can fill in the holes with something of value. Until you do, I have shown you the high road. Go back and read my posts in this thread. Come back and tell me, point by point, how your own context is higher. It must be easy to do since you see my arguments as insufficient.

Pretty difficult for you to take the high road with your history on these boards SupeiriorEd. Your argument in this particular thread is laughably insufficient, as has been shown to you many times. We don't know the exact mechanisms that guides salmon to their breeding grounds, therefore a god exists??

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by HotCopperSkull

 

I can fully support and back up that notion!!

But in all fairness that position is equally suggesting the other side (your side) read and familiarize themselves with the Bible does it not? And if not, why not.

Just trying to be objective. I myself would rather listen to Richard Dawkins than read the Bible. That said I have done both plenty over the years. So I am safe!

Most atheists and other non-religious people know more about what's in the Bible that so-called Christians.

That's why they're atheists or non-religious.

The only thing which smells fishy to me is the fact that we have adults in the 21st century who actually believe the Flintstones was a real situation. Where we have men and women riding around and coexisting with dinosaurs!

How anyone can see these things & not laugh is completely beyond me. I'm not saying there is no God or that there is no intelligent design. What I am saying is that much of creationism is in direct conflict with given evidence and in order to make biblical stories fit with their ideas against said evidence, they construct a world where a guy rides on a Stegasaurus.
It's funny.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Someone here on ATS said something to me that was very wise. They said that most people here are looking for a simple answer that can be used to paste over a complicated matter. The problem is, context is necessary. Most of what I write is very detailed because the answer to the problem of confusion is not simple unless you see what is hidden to you by symbolism. Symbols are used because they are efficient. A symbol says more than the space it occupies. Unless you are willing to look, you won't see. A simple yes or no excludes the middle. Yes and no questions are often based on an incorrect premise. I was simply trying to fill you in so you can ask a better question.

It was actually a simple yes or no question.
Kind of like "Do you like chocolate."
I cannot believe people so smart that they have figured out the reality of God cannot answer yes or no questions.

Does not matter.

I see you YET AGAIN avoided the one thing I have asked 3 times now. The only question I really wanted anyone in this thread to answer.

reply to post by nixie_nox

Because STUDEN of history, if they tried to explain it to you, especially after you saying something like blood cells will float away without arteries, they are not going to bother explaining Genome fusion, RNA world hypothesis, or the Darwinian transition. It would be like me, trying to explain the inner workings of an ipod to a penguin in South AFrica.

Okay then, feel free to enlighten all of us how Genome fusion, RNA world hypothesis and or the Darwinian transition explains exactly how a single cell organism evolved into a multi celled organism. I'd love to hear how that happened. If you can't explain it then please provide a link that does.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
5) DNA is digital information. I could rest my entire case on this alone.

Sweet. That means I don't even have to waste my time debunking you, because this notion is laughably wrong.

reply to post by Prezbo369

Weren't you banned SuperiorEd for posting links here to the website that sells your book?

They asked me to make a new account because Superiored sounded like my blog at SuperiorEd.com. My feeling is that they simply used this as an excuse because a Freemason thread I authored was too close to their truth. They didn't like it. Bringing this up and asking the question seems odd since I have answered this for you the last time you asked a few months ago. Are your motives for asking the question related to your own bias in some way? If so, people generally see through bias quickly. Try adding some context to the OP related to truth. People are good at seeing truth.

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
5) DNA is digital information. I could rest my entire case on this alone.

Sweet. That means I don't even have to waste my time debunking you

Aw, please do. I'm bored and need a good show!