Lakewood (Colorado) Cake Shop Refuses Wedding Cake To Gay Couple.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I have not read through this thread, but would this not be illegal? It seems to me like it really would be, privately owned or not. This is outright discrimination, and it seems to me to be a thing against the law!

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by crazydaysandnights

 

No it isn't, and all you're trying to do is force your beliefs onto everybody else.

Truth is the truth, you're a bunch of hateful intolerant people.

Now, go ahead and call me a homophobe and insult me some more, you will not intimidate me. I see right through your stupid idiocy.

As I said, if you want respect, treat people with respect, which is something people like you are incapable of doing.

I am very intolerant of intolerance, and I am very intolerant of bad things, such as being anti-gay. Not everything is worthy of tolerance nor respect. I don't respect people who don't respect themselves or others. Thus, I don't respect anti-gays. I don't respect people who hold positions that are fundamentally discriminatory and inhumane. And I'm not going to tell you that you have to believe a certain way, but I sure as heck am not going to sugar coat nor am I going to associate nor am I going to respect a person who has such abhorrent views. Not going to happen. I don't hate you, I just don't support your choices.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Hate groups is a highly overused term these days, just as much as troll is. These days a hate group is just someone who disagrees with someone else.

It is only bigotry to discriminate against people, and there is no such thing as people who are so special they are above criticism. All you're trying to say is that it's okay for you criticize people but it's not okay for anyone to criticize you.

I'm sorry, but that's a stupid attitude. What's fair is fair, if you're going to criticize people, expect to be criticized back, and stop playing your stupid bigoted games.

And discrimination is wrong, is the only thing I'll agree with you on.

Criticizing a person is not the same thing as discrimination. It is not supporting a person, but it is not actively opposing a person either.

Something people like you can't seem to understand.

reply to post by crazydaysandnights


Intolerant of intolerance is a bunch of crap.. It's no different than the Christians who say "love the sinner but hate the sin crap".

You can use all the rationalization you want to, but I am not buying it.

The greatest harm comes when people are acting for the common good and the greater good. The greatest crimes in history are always for the common good.

And I'm not asking you to support my choices. I have every right as an adult to make mine, just as you do.

But people like you want to take that right away and force everyone to conform to the "one true way", whatever crap that is.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by crazydaysandnights

 

Intolerant of intolerance is a bunch of crap.. It's no different than the Christians who say "love the sinner but hate the sin crap".

You can use all the rationalization you want to, but I am not buying it.

The greatest harm comes when people are acting for the common good and the greater good. The greatest crimes in history are always for the common good.

And I'm not asking you to support my choices. I have every right as an adult to make mine, just as you do.

But people like you want to take that right away and force everyone to conform to the "one true way", whatever crap that is.

You can do what you want, but you have no right to ask anyone of anything when you make a choice to do/believe a certain way many find objectionable.

That's all it comes down to. If you want to continue playing the victim card to assuage yourself, be my guest.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Hate groups is a highly overused term these days, just as much as troll is. These days a hate group is just someone who disagrees with someone else.

It is only bigotry to discriminate against people, and there is no such thing as people who are so special they are above criticism. All you're trying to say is that it's okay for you criticize people but it's not okay for anyone to criticize you.

I'm sorry, but that's a stupid attitude. What's fair is fair, if you're going to criticize people, expect to be criticized back, and stop playing your stupid bigoted games.

And discrimination is wrong, is the only thing I'll agree with you on.

Criticizing a person is not the same thing as discrimination. It is not supporting a person, but it is not actively opposing a person either.

Something people like you can't seem to understand.

I can understand enough to know it is wrong to criticize someone on the basis of their natural sexual orientation.

You can criticize me for being critical. That doesn't change anything, since it's you who started the negativity by being originally critical of a particular group on an irrational basis.

Not supporting someone is opposing them. You oppose what they say/do/believe/etc. It means you do not accept their actions and therefore disassociate yourself from them and if need be, fight against them if their way of thinking causes threat. Since in this case homophobia is a social disease and harms the gay community daily, we have to be active in our opposition. We would simply ignore, disassociate and condemn if homophobes weren't going out of their way to discriminate. Every action has a positive and/or negative reaction.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

I have seen over and over the meme that Chick-fil-a donates millions to hate grouns but have seen zero factual evidence of this.

They're listed on his tax return.

But - like the other poster said. Do your own research.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
So when you can't debate the point, you go after the person? I'll slow down the typing just for you. Would that make you happy?

I didn't notice you having a point needing to be debated.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Hate groups is a highly overused term these days, just as much as troll is. These days a hate group is just someone who disagrees with someone else.

It is only bigotry to discriminate against people, and there is no such thing as people who are so special they are above criticism. All you're trying to say is that it's okay for you criticize people but it's not okay for anyone to criticize you.

I'm sorry, but that's a stupid attitude. What's fair is fair, if you're going to criticize people, expect to be criticized back, and stop playing your stupid bigoted games.

And discrimination is wrong, is the only thing I'll agree with you on.

Criticizing a person is not the same thing as discrimination. It is not supporting a person, but it is not actively opposing a person either.

Something people like you can't seem to understand.

And yet you have called me a bigot without any evidence of being a bigot, so do we have a case of the pot calling the kettle black? All I've done was question the factual basis for all of the hullabaloo and the responses have been unfounded name calling and hateful diatribes. Thus, where does the true bigoty lie if one cannot disagree without name calling? All the hate and vitriol I've seen so far has come from one side of the isle and it steps up a notch if you dare question their stance.

Like I've said, I've been criticizing and questioning but the responses have been very hateful.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by crazydaysandnights

 

Intolerant of intolerance is a bunch of crap.. It's no different than the Christians who say "love the sinner but hate the sin crap".

You can use all the rationalization you want to, but I am not buying it.

The greatest harm comes when people are acting for the common good and the greater good. The greatest crimes in history are always for the common good.

And I'm not asking you to support my choices. I have every right as an adult to make mine, just as you do.

But people like you want to take that right away and force everyone to conform to the "one true way", whatever crap that is.

I can agree with that.

Originally posted by crazydaysandnights

Originally posted by NavyDoc
So when you can't debate the point, you go after the person? I'll slow down the typing just for you. Would that make you happy?

I didn't notice you having a point needing to be debated.

I had a point. It was wishing that people could present a factual basis for the allegation that the chicken sandwich company supports hate groups. So far no one has been able to provide said factual basis.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc

I have seen over and over the meme that Chick-fil-a donates millions to hate grouns but have seen zero factual evidence of this.

They're listed on his tax return.

But - like the other poster said. Do your own research.

That's not how debate works. If one makes a declarative statement one needs to have data to back up the statement with a fact. If the challeng is "where is the evidence" or "where did you get that," "nope, do your own work" is an intellectual cop out. Either the statement is based on some sort of fact, where it should be readily available to the stater, assuming he or she actually did look into it, or it is not in which case one can derive that the person did so without a position of actual information.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
I had a point. It was wishing that people could present a factual basis for the allegation that the chicken sandwich company supports hate groups. So far no one has been able to provide said factual basis.

You can find out for yourself. No-one is going to do your work for you.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc

I have seen over and over the meme that Chick-fil-a donates millions to hate grouns but have seen zero factual evidence of this.

They're listed on his tax return.

But - like the other poster said. Do your own research.

That's not how debate works. If one makes a declarative statement one needs to have data to back up the statement with a fact. If the challeng is "where is the evidence" or "where did you get that," "nope, do your own work" is an intellectual cop out. Either the statement is based on some sort of fact, where it should be readily available to the stater, assuming he or she actually did look into it, or it is not in which case one can derive that the person did so without a position of actual information.

No no no. You asked people to do something you're perfectly capable of doing yourself. You made the original statement by questioning what/who CFA has been financially supporting and if it's true or a lie that they have been financially supporting anti-gay organizations. You were the one who asked the questions. No-one has to answer your questions when you can answer them by simply searching the web.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Here is my biggest issue with the term.

Heterosexual married couple kathy and Jim give birth to a girl. They name her Sarah. She goes to school, she has friends, she plays sports, she watches movies. Her entire childhood and teen years she has heard about marriage from her family, from her friends, from school, and from the media. She loved the Disney movies as a kid and remembers day dreaming about being Ariel getting married in the Little Mermaid. She never stopped fantasizing about one day getting married and planning her wedding. She often talks about this with her other friends who are excited for the same.

She gets to college and she musters the courage to tell people she is gay and becomes open about it. She finds someone, falls in love, enters a long term relationship and finally that lifelong dream of marriage is going to happen, her partner said "yes". But it's not. She is not allowed to get married like Ariel in the Little Mermaid because she isn't marrying Prince Eric. She can't get married like many of her closest friends have. Not like her loving parents did. Because she's gay. No says the World, but we have something else for people like you...it's basically the same thing.

Re-posting this part - just because...

I notice over and over in all these many threads that this is the part the anti-gay marriage side appears to want to ignore. They don't seem to know what to do with this touchy-feely stuff. The focus is usually on benefits or how the gays are whining for attention or claiming rights they don't deserve because they aren't like the god-fearing, child-producing normal people who clearly deserve to have real marriages. Because - if they actually wanted to get married and have their marriages recognized as genuine unions between two people that love each other - this opposing group would be painted into a corner where the only thing they can ever say is: you're not allowed to express your love the same way we do - you aren't real couples. Your love is meaningless to us - and we have every right to shun you

Maybe this particular business owner is within his rights to refuse that couple a cake. He says on the one hand it's not because he has anything against the gay community - he just doesn't believe in gay marriage. And he's going to drive home his message by refusing to bake them a wedding cake. They can have a birthday cake, or a graduation cake, or a Guy Fawkes Day cake if they want one - but he simply can't bake them a wedding cake - just can't - no how - no way

This is America - and until the law says he can't refuse - I guess he's allowed to refuse

He's not a bigot - he's just principled

Bully for him

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Just because someone sins does not mean I have any thing against them. I fact I know some homosexuals I really enjoy the company of. Just because I am Christian does not mean that I do not sin it means I should be more aware of my sins. Each of us sin daily to say we do not is a lie. I struggle greatly with certain sins so I cannot hate a sinner I hate sin including my own.


On the phone again tonight, I will try to touch the rest of the post shortly.

Raist

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


The issue with law is different in many places you have federal, state, county, and city. I am sure he has not broken a federal law, and I am pretty sure he has not broken a state law (though I could be wrong) I have no idea if he has broken a city law either. We will have to let the courts decide that.


I cannot say that I have met a gay victim. At least not in this area. Around here (surprising to many) they are pretty accepted. They get jobs easy and at one place minorities are more certain to get jobs due to a company person quota that requires being filled. Here we have multiple gay bars one has been fixed up it used to not be as nice and each well they have their own drag show. One of my friends used to work the door there. My wife got upset that she like ladies and did not get hit on but I did LOL.

Here I have never met a victim though. All those I have met were very nice down home and had a religious background. I reaaly enjoy their company and conversation. I wish I had most of thweducation they got though because they ended up with better jobs for the most part.

Raist

reply to post by crazydaysandnights


Show me one instance where Jesus said to or ever did stone or burn a person for sinning. Just because people do screwed up things does not make it a real Christian practice.


Raist