Surely the gods must be crazy in Jerusalem's misplaced temples

In reading the various stages for temples in Jerusalem one can really find that the gods must really be crazy, or perhaps the human perceptions are. The first temple came along with what appears to be a fascination over an old spring named after a water source in the Garden of Eden called the Gihon river. The Gihon spring was special because it pulsated and acted like the Earth had a pulse of god with the water that caused much superstition.

The orgin of the pulsating spring was a karst limestone aquifer deep under the site that was chosen for the 1 st temple's location. The first temple and the palace of David were closely associated as being placed on a terraced build up and land area in the upper City of David area. David's Palace was to the South of the Temple elevation and Solomon's was to the West of the area. The clean sweet limestone water for the region was special because it was the only water for 50 miles around at the time and supported life in little Ir David, as well as temple worship via cleanliness.

This water source became an issue for the fortress of Ir David due to its being down at the bottom of an area, rather than the high ground. The walls of Ir David had to step down the side of the high ground and into the valley and capture the precious and strategic water source for the region. Due to the water and limestone of the area, a lot of karst areas were formed and there are even issues of major caves under the region and old escape passages associated. One escape path was down the hillside from the 1 st temple between two gates and appeared to connected a a huge cavern that ran due East toward the Dead Sea for miles, and a part of this complex of caves appears to have connected to the Solomon Quarry / Zedekiah's Cave area under the Arab section of Jerusalem to the North of the temple complex now.

These days there is digging around that appears to be finding some of the terraced area of the Ir David area that supported a major structure, which appears to be this temple and palace complex. The digs are complete with lots of burned up blackened materials and old arrow heads from the fight for the area, that lost. It is interesting that the site for the 1 st temple does not appear to match the site for the 2 nd temple very well, so the Holy ground appears to have been lost to a degree, but the digs still continue to discover the real locations, but are impeded by ownership of property in the Ir David area of present day Jesusalem.

Then everyone knows about the 2 nd temple that came along that most associate with the Wailing Wall area and the second temple being located above the old Herod wall section of this area. This area isn't the classically defined Ir David region that was a little further South of that point. And the next burn down for the Jewish god temple happened due to the Romans being tired of the Jewish battles, so they torched crazy Herod's temple, leveled the entire area, and banned the Jewish from the entire region. Then the Romans came along and built a temple complex to Jupiter on the same 2 nd temple site. That didn't last too long because then the Arabs took the site and built a temple to Allah. It appears technically that Yahweh and Allah are supposed to be the same god, but god has a different book and Prophet that explains what and who the Arab god is about.

Now, the region has this sort of check-mate, where the Jewish can't seem to find their Holy Ground, and the area of the Dome of the Rock and such might not be the same precise area as the 1 st temple's big terraced ground platform that was over the Gihon Spring. These days, the Jewish, the Armenians, the Christians, and the Arabs have a quarter section of this strange place called Jerusalem. It appears the Roman Catholics have a little hold on the area, plus the old Jewish, and the winners for the Herod sacred ground are the Arabs, and there is continual unrest over who gets to claim god and what little piece of dirt or rock is Holy. It is big business in Jerusalem for Tourism.

So, one has the Christians and the big search for Jesus history there, with the Jewish not really having any appreciation for the Jesus and Catholics. Then the Arabs having a little more respect for Jesus as a Prophet, but nothing considered about god and Yahweh being one in the same. All kinds of things have gotten lost or shifted around. Even folks can't decide where or if the tomb of David exists, and the issues of these underground karst limestome caves appear to have lots of the hidden secrets stashed away in them.

Various professional and amateur archiologists are looking for the secrets of religion in Jerusalem, and a person named Ron Wyatt claimed to have found the place the Ark was hidden ahead of the Babylon invasion down in a cavern off Solomon's Quarry, and it appears the current tomb of David may be close to or sitting over a limestone cave that contains the remains of the Family of David that was similarly moved from under the temple complex area to this hidden area to keep treasures away from the Babylon Invaders. They had a lot of time to hide things before the Ir David area was burned to the ground. Today, it appears the undergound Jerusalem may contain more of the secrets of religion than the above ground areas.

It is interesting that there is so much competition for this little plot of ground that appears to have begun over a pulsating spring with good tasting water, that they considered living water. That same ground water and limestone system appears to have formed the caves that extend for miles to the East of Jerusalem that was an escape route from siege for the city. It appears that god is almost this rock, above and below that formed this heart beat spring that became the fascination for a temple of David and the battle for where this sacred spot is today, which appears to be in question from the various burn downs and rebuilding projects that dramatically reshaped the land surface for this area.

It all points to one thing and that is the gods must be crazy in Jerusalem as they misplaced various things like David's tomb, the Ark, the family members of David, and even the special spot where the 1 st temple was located. Over the years, they can't decide, in Ir David or Jerusalem, if Yahweh is god, if Jupiter is god, if Allah is god, or Jesus is god. Leaving to mind that one can only conclude that the gods must really be crazy in Jerusalem, or this Holy Water really drove the people toward an odd system of beliefs they still can't define.

These days, it does appear that finding god there is looking underground for god and the god relics. It appears what makes god in Jerusalem is the lost history stashed down in the rocks there, rather than the known history sitting on top the rocks. The secret that makes god work in Jerusalem is keeping all the relics hidden, and that special reverence for Gihon living water that might well explain temple superstitions on god.

Nice read, my opinion organised religion in the area really has got lots of different people/races by the nuts, so to speak, its no wonder WWIII is just around the corner and prophesied(LoL) to begin in or around Israel/Jerusalem. Why cant they all just get on with life..................Politics and organised religion thats why!

Originally posted by andy06shake
Nice read, my opinion organised religion in the area really has got lots of different people/races by the nuts, so to speak, its no wonder WWIII is just around the corner and prophesied(LoL) to begin in or around Israel/Jerusalem. Why cant they all just get on with life..................Politics and organised religion thats why!

One might also notice what the big deal about Holy Water came from----this Gihon Spring and the living water pulse taken to be god's heartbeat.

All these temple beliefs spring from that Gihon Spring deal and the living water that was a big deal in the 1 st temple.

Now, it is complicated with misplaced ideas that lost the orginal message. Wars over lost beliefs and embellished wrong directions.

Gihon traces back to the Garden of Eden, the Creator gods associated with water in that religion.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The City of David was built on a hill of hard limestone, in which underground water created karstic caves. The Gihon Spring, the only source of water of the city, emerges in the Kidron Valley, east of the City of David. It is mentioned many times in the Bible, e.g., its location in the valley east of the city (II Chronicles 33:14); the anointing of Solomon as King of Israel (I Kings 1:35, 45). It made the founding of the City of David possible, and sustained its existence for thousands of years. The Hebrew name of the spring is derived from the verb meaning "to gush forth," reflecting the flow of the spring, which is not steady, but intermittent, its frequency varying with the seasons of the year and annual precipitation. It is a siphon-type karst spring fed by groundwater that accumulates in a subterranean cave. Each time that space fills to the brim, it empties at once through cracks in the rock and is siphoned to the surface. This natural feature made it necessary to accumulate water in a pool, to be available at times when the spring was not "gushing forth."

The spring emerged in a cave on the eastern slope of the City of David above the Kidron Valley, and from there water flowed into the valley, watering the terraced, agricultural plots on the slope of the City of David. This area is called in the Bible the "King's Garden" (II Kings 25:4; Jeremiah 52:7; Nehemiah 3:15). Today, the bed of the Kidron Valley is filled with 15 m. of erosion and debris, which have accumulated over the millennia. During the Second Temple period, a vault was built over the spring, to which one could descend via a long staircase. Water flowed from the spring along Hezekiah's Tunnel to the Siloam Pool, (John 9:7) which is located in the low, southern part of the Tyropoeon Valley, west of the City of David.

The Temple Mount in Judaism

The Temple Mount is the holiest site in Judaism. According to the Bible, the Talmud, and other sources of Jewish tradition, several important events in the history of Judaism took place on the Temple Mount:

Here God gathered the earth from which he formed Adam.
Here Adam, Cain, Abel and Noah offered sacrifices to God.
Here Abraham passed God's test by showing his willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac (the Bible says this is on Mount Moriah, which the Talmud says is another name for the Temple Mount).
Here Jacob dreamt about angels ascending and descending a ladder while sleeping on a stone (the stone in the Dome of the Rock is believed to be the very stone).
The Temple Mount is believed to be the site of the threshing floor overlooking Jerusalem that King David purchased from Aravnah the Jebusite (2 Samuel, 24:18-25).
Here King Solomon built the Temple in 950 BC, which stood for 410 years until it was destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC.
Here the Second Temple was built after the Babylonian Exile, which was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.
During Maimonides' residence in Jerusalem, a synagogue stood on the Temple Mount alongside other structures and Maimonides prayed there.

www.sacred-destinations.com...

reply to post by MagnumOpus

reply to post by MagnumOpus


So essentially all the races/religions in the area are fighting over the water of life? Reminds me of Frank Herbert's Dune. LoL

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

So essentially all the races/religions in the area are fighting over the water of life? Reminds me of Frank Herbert's Dune. LoL

In that area, water was life. A rituals developed over water, being just as special as in river cultures of Eridu, Ur, Babylon, and Egypt. There was great stories over this Ir David Holy Water, and the Catholic rituals today make use of Holy water from rituals, some of which use Myrrh to make it going back to the themes of Myrrh and the Creator gods affinity for myrrh.

The issues for what is left on Jerusalem, is the Western Wall was really a part of the Roman Fort that stood well North of the temple. All the temple zones were torn down to the ground and nothing remained. Leveled to the gound, and nothing left, not even a wall or a single stone on top another.

askelm.com...

Yes, even the very foundation stones that comprised the Temple complex (including its walls) had been uprooted and demolished. They were then "dug up" and not even the lower courses of base stones were left in place. According to Eleazar, the only thing left in the Jerusalem area was a single Roman Camp that still hovered triumphantly over the ruins of the City and the Temple. He said that Jewish Jerusalem "hath nothing left." The only thing continuing to exist was the "monument" (a single monument) preserved by Titus. And what was that "monument"? Eleazar said it was "the camp of those that destroyed it [Jerusalem], which still dwells upon its ruins."

What could this Camp of the Romans have been? This is quite easy to discover when one reads the accounts of the war as recorded by Josephus. The main military establishment in Jerusalem prior to the war was Fort Antonia located to the north of the Temple (which is now the Haram esh-Sharif). In my new book "The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot," I will give an abundance of information to show that the Haram was considered Roman property even before the war. Because Antonia was the property of Rome, they had no reason to destroy those buildings that already belonged to the Romans. That is why Titus left Fort Antonia (the Haram esh-Sharif) and its walls in tact (as we see them today).

So, the real story is the "wailing wall" is really what was left of the Roman garrision wall area for Fort Antonia. So, all the Jewish poke little notes into a wall that has nothing to do with the orginal temple's support walls.

www.biblesearchers.com...

One of the most radical but well documented and supported thesis of the site of Solomon’s temple is proposed by Archeologist Ernest Martin. According to him, the Temple of Herod was truly razed to the bedrock ground as predicted by Yahshua (Matthew 24:2) and that the Temple Mount (Harem al’Sharif) was not the site for the temple. The temple was actually built south of the Temple Mount on a temple platform that no longer exists today. Consider this information from what we have learned about the location of the Gihon Springs, the newly found mikvah baths for the high priest of the Temple of Herod and the above topographical map that somewhere east of the Dung Gate and the present Islamic walls on the south side of the Temple Mount in Old Jerusalem a platform once upon a time existed that held the temple of Solomon, Zerubabbel and Herod.

The actual 1 st temple area and 2nd temple area were built south of the Mosque on what some call the temple mount these days, but nothing is left of the real temple mount that now causes mass confusion. The real temple was built over the Gihon Spring area, and the temple ritual for the Priests depended upon a good bit of ritual cleaning down in the caves of the Giphon Spring.

Originally posted by rootbranch2012
The Temple Mount in Judaism

The Temple Mount is the holiest site in Judaism. According to the Bible, the Talmud, and other sources of Jewish tradition, several important events in the history of Judaism took place on the Temple Mount:

Here God gathered the earth from which he formed Adam.
Here Adam, Cain, Abel and Noah offered sacrifices to God.
Here Abraham passed God's test by showing his willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac (the Bible says this is on Mount Moriah, which the Talmud says is another name for the Temple Mount).
Here Jacob dreamt about angels ascending and descending a ladder while sleeping on a stone (the stone in the Dome of the Rock is believed to be the very stone).
The Temple Mount is believed to be the site of the threshing floor overlooking Jerusalem that King David purchased from Aravnah the Jebusite (2 Samuel, 24:18-25).
Here King Solomon built the Temple in 950 BC, which stood for 410 years until it was destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC.
Here the Second Temple was built after the Babylonian Exile, which was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.
During Maimonides' residence in Jerusalem, a synagogue stood on the Temple Mount alongside other structures and Maimonides prayed there.

www.sacred-destinations.com...

reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

All that is part of the story and part of what makes the area special.

But, the issue is what they want to call the temple mount these days, was not the temple mount area in those old days. What they call the temple mount area is Ft. Antonia's walls and area, that was North of the real Temple mount.

So, all those Jewish folks all worried about walking on Holy ground actually walk all over what was the real and orginal holy ground and don't even realize it for the most part.

Why the Western Wall Was Not Destroyed



“Behold, He standeth behind our wall.” (Song of Songs 2:9). Wall alludes to the Western Wall of the Temple which will never be destroyed. Why? Because the Shechinah is in the west.

Numbers Rabba 11:2

R’ Eleazar says: The Shechinah did not depart from the Sanctuary … for although it is laid waste, it still retains in holiness. R’ Aha said: The Divine Presence will never depart from the Western Wall as it is said: “Behold, He standeth behind our wall.” (Song of Songs 2:9)

Exodus Rabba 2:2

When Vespasian had subdued the city, he assigned the destruction of the four ramparts to the four generals, and the western gate was allotted to Pangar. Now it had been decreed by Heaven that this should never be destroyed because the Shechinah is in the west. The others demolished their sections but he did not demolish his.
Vespasian sent for him and asked, “Why did you not destroy your section?”
He replied: “By your life, I acted so for the honour of the kingdom; for if I had demolished it, nobody would [in time] know what it was you destroyed; but when people look [at the western wall] they will exclaim, Perceive the might of Vespasian from what he destroyed!”
He said to him, “Enough, you have spoken well, but since you disobeyed my command, you shall ascend to the roof and throw yourself down. If you live, you will live; and if you die, you will die.”
He ascended, threw himself down and died.

Lamentations Rabba 1:31

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

So, the real story is the "wailing wall" is really what was left of the Roman garrision wall area for Fort Antonia. So, all the Jewish poke little notes into a wall that has nothing to do with the orginal temple's support walls.

Isiaiah 2:2

In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.

Live Web Cam to the Kotel (Western Wall) - english.thekotel.org...


reply to post by rootbranch2012

Originally posted by rootbranch2012
Why the Western Wall Was Not Destroyed



“Behold, He standeth behind our wall.” (Song of Songs 2:9). Wall alludes to the Western Wall of the Temple which will never be destroyed. Why? Because the Shechinah is in the west.

Numbers Rabba 11:2

R’ Eleazar says: The Shechinah did not depart from the Sanctuary … for although it is laid waste, it still retains in holiness. R’ Aha said: The Divine Presence will never depart from the Western Wall as it is said: “Behold, He standeth behind our wall.” (Song of Songs 2:9)

Exodus Rabba 2:2

When Vespasian had subdued the city, he assigned the destruction of the four ramparts to the four generals, and the western gate was allotted to Pangar. Now it had been decreed by Heaven that this should never be destroyed because the Shechinah is in the west. The others demolished their sections but he did not demolish his.
Vespasian sent for him and asked, “Why did you not destroy your section?”
He replied: “By your life, I acted so for the honour of the kingdom; for if I had demolished it, nobody would [in time] know what it was you destroyed; but when people look [at the western wall] they will exclaim, Perceive the might of Vespasian from what he destroyed!”
He said to him, “Enough, you have spoken well, but since you disobeyed my command, you shall ascend to the roof and throw yourself down. If you live, you will live; and if you die, you will die.”
He ascended, threw himself down and died.

Lamentations Rabba 1:31

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

So, the real story is the "wailing wall" is really what was left of the Roman garrision wall area for Fort Antonia. So, all the Jewish poke little notes into a wall that has nothing to do with the orginal temple's support walls.

I think you might note that the Romans kept a few areas to show the level of the Jewish defense, and one area was near the Western Gate or the Jaffa Gate, which means things like the David's Tower area. Another was Ft. Antonia. But, nothing of the Jewish god theme was left standing.

Originally posted by rootbranch2012
Isiaiah 2:2

In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.

Live Web Cam to the Kotel (Western Wall) - english.thekotel.org...


reply to post by rootbranch2012

 

edit on 30-7-2012 by rootbranch2012 because: (no reason given)

Isiaiah was a very old prophet---from the 700 BC times. He was speaking in those times of the 1st temple from 1006 - 586 BC. I think he is speaking in the sense of that period

The temple, in the times of Solomon, was raised above the surrounding hills.

Several nations streamed to the temple, and tore it down. Babylon, Rome, and Arab sure streamed there.

But today, there is nothing left for any national to stream to it. They missed the real point for the 1st temple and don't even get the area correct for where it was located these days. Seems like there is a road right on top of where the Holy Temple once stood. So, everyone can stream to it in their cars.

But the Holy Spring is being rediscovered way down below where the temple once stood above the surrounding hills.

Some of the other little things to note is the Essene, in Jerusalm, had their own section and their own city Gate, and their ritual cleanliness followed this bath things of the Solomon temple priests. The Essene would go take a bath outside the Essene gate and visit their out houses there, every evening.

So, they followed some of the original themes for the Solomon's temple priests with the daily baths routines. The Essene appeared to like the times of the David and Solomon temple and followed those rituals.

However, they are totally against the 2 nd temples methods and Jesus and Ciaphus appear to have seriously disliked each other.

Ciaphus actually lived in the Essene Quater back in those times. Ciaphus was the main player in getting Jesus nailed to the tree.



The other intesting thing is that part of the Jesus Prophecy is that he predicts the temple will be distroyed by the Romans, all the way down to the foundations with no stone left unturned. I wonder how all the Jesus believers are going to be dealing with their denials of this detail from Jesus.

Seems the Christians have a good bit of not believing the Jesus Prophecy to deal with, if they go to the temple mount and buy that error story on the location for the temple there. The real history for Jerusalem is off in various places, and the real story is they lost the real location for the original temple that was over the Gihon Spring down below the hillside.

Now, one can examine even further and finds others have found these slip ups on where the temple was claimed to have been.

cbcg.org...

The Temple Mount at Jerusalem
A Summary of Ernest L. Martin’s Book
“The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot”

Josephus Understood the Symbolism of the Gihon Spring
Gihon Spring was the only natural spring of pure water within five miles of Jerusalem in any direction. Pure water was an indispensable requirement for the essential rituals of the Temple. Because of this spring of pure water, the Temple was a microcosm of the Garden of Eden. (One of the rivers that flowed through the Garden of Eden was the river Gihon.) The water of Gihon was symbolic of the Water of Life. Ophel and the Gihon Spring are synonymous.

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No Rock Outcropping Associated with the Temple
There is no reference in Scripture or any secular historical source that describes a natural outcropping of rock located at the highest point of the ridge or hill that was associated with the Temple Mount. This includes the sites of the Temple floor, the Holy of Holies and the Altar of Burnt Offering.

The Altar of Burnt Offering was formally used as a threshing floor. It is clear that the threshing floor was a level area on top of Mount Ophel, not an irregular formation of rock on top of a ridge.

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Destruction of the Temple Foretold
Micah prophesied the destruction of the Temple (Mic.3:10-12): “Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor justice, and pervert all iniquity. They build up Zion with bloodshed and Jerusalem with iniquity. The heads thereof judge for a bribe, and the priests thereof teach for pay, and the prophets thereof divine for money. Yet will they lean upon the Lord, saying is not the Lord among us? No harm can come upon us. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins, and the mountain of the Temple as the bare hills.”

Jesus confirmed this prophecy as the writers of the gospels agree: Matthew 24:1-2 and Mark 13:1-2: “And Jesus went out, and departed from the Temple; and His disciples came to Him for to show Him the buildings of the Temple. And Jesus said unto them. ‘See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

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Josephus wrote that all of Fort Antonia was built over and around a rock outcrop at the summit of the ridge. Today, a mosque stands over this rock formation known as the Dome of the Rock. Completed by Abdul el-Malik in 691 AD, the mosque covers the remainder of this protruding rock but occupies only a very small fraction of the entire surface area of the 36-acre artificial platform that the Romans built.

Thus one can begin to notice there are problems with the lost site for the temple, and it persists to this day.

This is a little study about the Temple for Jupiter that the Romans put up on this area of the Roman mount. It has some fair insights around the shape for the temple of Jupiter and why the Muslems picked areas to put Mosques and Domes, but it misses the boat in the location for the original temple because it uses the wrong reference of the Ft. Antonia location. Yet the study is interesting, if one makes note of its limitations.

www.templemount.org...

Because of our sins we were exiled from our country and banished from our land. We cannot go up as pilgrims to worship Thee, to perform our duties in Thy chosen house, the great and Holy Temple which was called by Thy name, on account of the hand that was let loose on Thy sanctuary. May it be Thy will, Lord our God and God of our fathers, merciful King, in Thy abundant love again to have mercy on us and on Thy sanctuary; rebuild it speedily and magnify its glory. (The Jewish Prayer Book)

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A similar temple, built by the same builder at about the same time, has been discovered at Baalbek, Lebanon.

The Roman architectural practices of the time featured a rectangular basilica, and a polygon structure opposite a courtyard. When this architecture is overlaid on the Temple Mount, it matches the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock exactly.

This unique architectural similarity suggests that the Roman Temple to Jupiter may have been on this very site, converted for Christian purposes in the 4th Century, and then served as the foundation for the present Moslem structures, the Al Aqsa Mosque an the Dome of the Rock, which were built in the 7th Century.

So, the Roman temple for Jupiter landed right on top of Roman held lands and the City grew back around that area.

26 Western Wall Tunnels - Complete Explanation

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Now, one can examine even further and finds others have found these slip ups on where the temple was claimed to have been.

One thing you learn after reading all the documents for the accounts of the Temple area, is never to believe a Muslum tour guide selling the Western Wall Tunnel as part of the Temple compound. Your little YouTube tourist demo is nonsense, and a production to sell western wall tickets.

Real reseachers know that the Ft. Antonia was as large as the city in the times of Jesus, and the area that the Dome and the Mosque sits upon would never be considered the center of the city, but the more Northern part of the city. The temple grounds were small compared to Ft. Antonia, even after the expansion. And two large viaducts connected Ft. Antonia to the Temple elevations for Solomon's temple. The viaducts left the Antonia Compound down near the Muslum Mosque area and bridged over to the Temple's elevation.

www.biblicaltheology.com...

There is another important observation that needs to be made. Josephus described the Temple as being a square (a precise square of one stadium length on each side — about 600 feet, see War V.5,2 with War VI.5,4 and Antiquities XV.9,3). It had two colonnade roadways from the northwest corner of the Temple to the southwestern corner of Fort Antonia (War II.15,6). These roadways were also a stadium in length. Combining the square lengths of the Temple square with the two roadways that led to Fort Antonia, the length was six stades of 600 feet each. The walls around the Temple were prodigious in height according to Josephus. The southeastern corner of the outer Temple walls was located directly over the very bottom of the Kidron Valley (the bedrock center) and extended upwards 300 cubits or 450 feet (Antiquities VIII,3,9) where it reached the four-square platform on which the actual Temple with its various courts was located. The northeastern corner was also located within the depths of the Kidron though not quite as high as the southeastern corner.

This made the four Temple walls to be a 600 square feet (on each side) TOWER like a 40 story skyscraper in Chicago that extended upward with its southeast section of the wall within the river bottom (its deepest part) of the Kidron. Barnabas described the Temple (15 years after its destruction) as a TOWER (16:4-8), and the Book of Enoch and the Shepherd of Hermas give numerous references that the Temple was indeed shaped as a TOWER (see my Web Page references). The above description is that of Josephus, an eyewitness to the Temple and its actual dimensions.

So, while that long wall was built by Herod, it was the west side for the fortress of Antonia of the Romans and even has roman streets in the area. It eventually became the Muslum area that the tunnel runs under and alongside the wall underground.

Nothing along that entire underground wall can be associated with being anywhere close to the Holy Ground for the Temple of Solomon. It is all bogus nonsense legend because they don't know their history, or tell it correctly due to the money it gets from tourism. Lies make money in Jerusalem.

Ft. Antonia was around 4.5 times as large an area as the temple, and it garrisoned around 5,000 Roman Soldiers plus their support groups and could not be a small area, The model for Ft. Antonia is even wrong in the Jerusalem Museum and also the scale model at the Hotel that is so popular. Ft. Antonia was no small Roman outposet.

One thing you learn after reading all the posts from armchair self-proclaimed know--it-alls, is that they are actually very dim when it comes to Knowledge. Oh sure, they have facts galore. They recite fact sheets in their sleep. But actual Knowledge - zippo. Nada. Nothing. The Big Zero. Why? Because they possess no ability to comprehend beyond their little sphere of *reality*. It's all one big game of *accumulate more information and beat the other guy about the head with it*. A form of warfare to be certain.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Proverbs 1:7.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
One thing you learn after reading all the documents for the accounts of the Temple area, is never to believe a Muslum tour guide selling the Western Wall Tunnel as part of the Temple compound. Your little YouTube tourist demo is nonsense, and a production to sell western wall tickets.

Real reseachers know that the Ft. Antonia was as large as the city in the times of Jesus, and the area that the Dome and the Mosque sits upon would never be considered the center of the city, but the more Northern part of the city. The temple grounds were small compared to Ft. Antonia, even after the expansion. And two large viaducts connected Ft. Antonia to the Temple elevations for Solomon's temple. The viaducts left the Antonia Compound down near the Muslum Mosque area and bridged over to the Temple's elevation.

www.biblicaltheology.com...

There is another important observation that needs to be made. Josephus described the Temple as being a square (a precise square of one stadium length on each side — about 600 feet, see War V.5,2 with War VI.5,4 and Antiquities XV.9,3). It had two colonnade roadways from the northwest corner of the Temple to the southwestern corner of Fort Antonia (War II.15,6). These roadways were also a stadium in length. Combining the square lengths of the Temple square with the two roadways that led to Fort Antonia, the length was six stades of 600 feet each. The walls around the Temple were prodigious in height according to Josephus. The southeastern corner of the outer Temple walls was located directly over the very bottom of the Kidron Valley (the bedrock center) and extended upwards 300 cubits or 450 feet (Antiquities VIII,3,9) where it reached the four-square platform on which the actual Temple with its various courts was located. The northeastern corner was also located within the depths of the Kidron though not quite as high as the southeastern corner.

This made the four Temple walls to be a 600 square feet (on each side) TOWER like a 40 story skyscraper in Chicago that extended upward with its southeast section of the wall within the river bottom (its deepest part) of the Kidron. Barnabas described the Temple (15 years after its destruction) as a TOWER (16:4-8), and the Book of Enoch and the Shepherd of Hermas give numerous references that the Temple was indeed shaped as a TOWER (see my Web Page references). The above description is that of Josephus, an eyewitness to the Temple and its actual dimensions.

So, while that long wall was built by Herod, it was the west side for the fortress of Antonia of the Romans and even has roman streets in the area. It eventually became the Muslum area that the tunnel runs under and alongside the wall underground.

Nothing along that entire underground wall can be associated with being anywhere close to the Holy Ground for the Temple of Solomon. It is all bogus nonsense legend because they don't know their history, or tell it correctly due to the money it gets from tourism. Lies make money in Jerusalem.

Ft. Antonia was around 4.5 times as large an area as the temple, and it garrisoned around 5,000 Roman Soldiers plus their support groups and could not be a small area, The model for Ft. Antonia is even wrong in the Jerusalem Museum and also the scale model at the Hotel that is so popular. Ft. Antonia was no small Roman outposet.

edit on 30-7-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Jerusalem Saving Face, The tourist trade in Jerusalem, and the departure from truth for a little money

It's not a *story*. Stories you'll find in the NT. This is documented. The whole 9 yards. From Abraham to Solomon. We know our geography.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

All that is part of the story and part of what makes the area special.

But, the issue is what they want to call the temple mount these days, was not the temple mount area in those old days. What they call the temple mount area is Ft. Antonia's walls and area, that was North of the real Temple mount.

So, all those Jewish folks all worried about walking on Holy ground actually walk all over what was the real and orginal holy ground and don't even realize it for the most part.

Originally posted by rootbranch2012
One thing you learn after reading all the posts from armchair self-proclaimed know--it-alls, is that they are actually very dim when it comes to Knowledge. Oh sure, they have facts galore. They recite fact sheets in their sleep. But actual Knowledge - zippo. Nada. Nothing. The Big Zero. Why? Because they possess no ability to comprehend beyond their little sphere of *reality*. It's all one big game of *accumulate more information and beat the other guy about the head with it*. A form of warfare to be certain.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Proverbs 1:7.

I see you are having a great deal of problems, since you have admitted clearly that I use "facts". Which tells me about the rest of your diatribe level game is attack the person, and not the substance of the quoted "facts."

It is no war that most seek, only the facts of the sordid stories of religion. Most don't want the misguided stories of old that would appear to tell the old Temples sat on top of the Rock of Abraham. There is nothing in the temple histories that tell it was sitting on top of that rock and no ritual tied to any rock. That is a simple fact that you have no worthy response.

The real story that explains the history says that David parked the tabernackle over the top of Gihon spring and the natural trend is for Solomon to put the temple that David wanted on the same spot. That spot was nothing to do with the rock of Abraham, as the temple's story was one only of the Ark's new house, and they likely didn't want to mess with the Rock of Abraham. Only Herod decided to mess with the rock of Abraham with building the Roman Fort around the rock.

There is also nothing to tie the Mosque area to the temple of Solomon or Herods. If one looks under that Mosque one finds big cisterns that they built to support Ft. Antonia, all Roman type design. These days they call these cisterns as Soloman's stables only because the Templars decided that was a cool place to keep their horses, when they came in search of the truth on the temples also. The templars would not turn the grounds of the temple into a stable, if they decided it was a temple area. The Templars knew the signs of a Roman Fort when they saw one. Again, nothing of any real substance supports that you know the history for the temple being anywhere on this Ft. Antonia system of ground that contains the Dome of the Rock or the Mosque.


And one does not fear truth and the real lord of any religion should be about truth. Apparently your lord is one that values fear and not truth. And you and your lord appears to declair war upon truth. Plus, diatribe tossing when you can not deal with the simple facts.

You would have that the temple was built upon horse manure and horse urine, such is the power of your deductive reason. That most would have little trouble not calling truth or knowledge.

No doubt you will have more and more trouble with the history there, because even the wailing wall was picked by another misguided person telling the temple was inside the Roman Fort Antonia.

Originally posted by rootbranch2012
It's not a *story*. Stories you'll find in the NT. This is documented. The whole 9 yards. From Abraham to Solomon. We know our geography.

You have not shown me any We, as you are a single person. I also don't see you able to tie in Abraham with the City of Ur and that areas facinations with water and the god EA.

The whole reason that area was of early interest was because of this Spring called Gihon that had this pulse like effect, so they associated it with EA from the times of the Garden of Eden near the City of Ur and the times of Abrham having walked with the gods. Gihon Spring was named for the Garden of Eden River called Gihon.

Thus, for David, the Ark's associations with the spring was the better place for the Ark, and not the rock of Abraham. The Rock of Abraham was about the confusion of god being one that demanded children sacrafice, as in the times of Nimrod, and Abraham is the departure from that into sacrifice of animals and the goat in the thicket story. The Nimrod god was not the correct way. The bigger deal was the god of old always had water as the significant issue and this is the god EA symbolism from the areas of Eridu and Ur.

Even this spring provided agriculture down the sides of the City of David and into the vallley floor. They didn't care about some rock, and the issues of life giving waters was always connected with the City of Ur's ideas for god and this is where Abraham was born.

David knew the real deal, and placed the Ark over Gihon Spring.


In David's and Solomon's time, the life of Ir David depended upon this sweet water from Gihon Spring and that special effects of the spring's hydraulics inside the rock under the Ir David made it even more special due to its heart beating. Such was assigned a god significance.

These days the springs waters are said to have gone to bitter, and that which was assigned to god in the old days does not appear associated now, and the City of Jerusalam even worships the wrong spot for the Temples of Soloman and Herod. Because the area was torn down to the foundations and nothing remained. But Ft. Antonia remained and the Rock of Abraham, but they didn't have much to do with the missing temple area, other than being nearby.

It appears a great misfortune for the Jewish that they have lost their heritage symbol and worship the wrong spot, surely god will not place great faith in their abilties and misfortunes will befall those not seeking the truth.