Obama backs race-based school discipline policies

reply to post by RealSpoke

All I'm speaking on is history of this country

no, you're not ... you are being directional and evasive simultaneously. need examples ??

yes, Jim Crow laws were wrong but let's not notice that it was the endeavors of a pale black man that brought such laws to fruition.

yes, the Civil War happened but let's not look at the real reasons why cause slavery is just wrong.

yes, slavery in America was bad but let's not look at the fact that there was none until a black man demanded it in a court of law.

yes, slavery was popular in the South, but let's not look at the fact that Northern states held more of them and didn't free them upon the Emanicipation Proclamation ... that only applied to Confederate slaves.

see what i mean ??
to you, the cause means nothing ... let's just talk about the effects, right ??

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by Honor93

 

*snip*

well, if you don't believe the only remedy should be provided by the government ... then what exactly ?

Community based approach. The US government is too big, should be disbanded in little governments the size of counties.

YES. That would be state governments managing the affairs of their states. That's what this is supposed to be (hence the "United States" label), but somehow we ended up with an oversized, corrupt federal government. Basically, the US government should get OUT of a lot of things that they have shoved themselves into, and let people manage locally.

reply to post by Honor93

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

reply to post by AshleyD


Point "iii", just a bit down the page -

(iii) decreasing the disproportionate number of referrals of African American children from general education to special education by addressing the root causes of the referrals and eradicating discriminatory referrals;

What this vague passage does is open the door for ANY disciplinary action against a black student to be labeled as "discrimination", whether it is or not. The lack of any firm statement here means they can do basically anything they want.

or here:

(vi) reducing the dropout rate of African American students and helping African American students graduate from high school prepared for college and a career, in part by promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools

The entire thing is basically stating that some "racist" attitude is the main reason for all of the problems in these schools, and for these people. It's a crock, it's divisive, and it is insulting.

Originally posted by NorEaster
*snip*

So, where does this guy get off translating that policy as being prejudicial in favor of any race? The sentence I read says "to regulate schools’ disciplinary actions so that members of major racial and ethnic groups are penalized at equal rates, regardless of individuals’ behavior." It doesn't say "to regulate schools’ disciplinary actions so that members of one major racial and ethnic group are penalized at lesser rates, regardless of individuals’ behavior."
*snip*.

edit on 7/28/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)

You're kidding, right? The entire thing is for a single race, as though no other students, of any other race, have problems in the school system. That is one way it is racist.

Then there is the business about assuming that the disproportionate amounts of discipline are somehow "discriminatory", and not based on actual behavioral issues within a certain culture. If you can't see this, I can't help you.

This thread was supposed to be about Obama's race based policies but instead of expressing outrage it has degenerated into horrible example of why the nation is doomed. It is unfortunate that when the very foundation of ones thinking has been poisoned, their emotions programmed, and opinions inserted that we all must suffer for it. They schemed and now have their international slave citizens of the future which seek to contaminate everyone else. So sad.

"They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your LEFTISTS in the United States: all these PROFESSORS and all these beautiful CIVIL RIGHTS DEFENDERS. They are instrumental in the process of the SUBVERSION only to DESTABILIZE a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed any more. They know too much...Most of them, yes. Simply because the psychological shock when they will see in the future what the beautiful society of ‘EQUALITY’ and ‘SOCIAL JUSTICE’ means in practice, obviously they will revolt. They will be very unhappy, frustrated people, and the Marxist-Leninist regime does not tolerate these people. Obviously they will join the leagues of dissenters (dissidents)." Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent

“Most of the people who graduated in the sixties (drop-outs or half-baked intellectuals) are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, and the educational system. You are stuck with them. You cannot get rid of them. They are contaminated; they are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern. You cannot change their mind[s], even if you expose them to authentic information, even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still cannot change the basic perception and the logic of behavior. In other words, these people... the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To rid society of these people, you need another twenty or fifteen years to educate a new generation of patriotically-minded and common sense people, who would be acting in favor and in the interests of United States society.” ~ Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent

“in the language of the KGB—or ‘psychological warfare.’ What it basically means is, to change the perception of reality, of every American, to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country.” ~ Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent on Ideological Subversion

"As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him." ~ Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent on Ideological Subversion

“It’s a great brainwashing process, which goes very slowly and is divided into four basic stages. The first one is demoralization; it takes from 15-20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years which is required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy, exposed to the ideology of the enemy. In other words, Marxist-Leninist ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of American students, without being challenged, or counter-balanced by the basic values of Americanism.” ~ Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent

Antonio Gramsci (1891-1937), Marxist intellectual and politician, “believed that it was necessary first to delegitimize the dominant belief systems of the predominant groups and to create a “counter-hegemony” (i.e., a new system of values for the subordinate groups) before the marginalized could be empowered. Moreover, because hegemonic values permeate all spheres of civil society — schools, churches, the media, voluntary associations — civil society itself, he argued, is the great battleground in the struggle for hegemony, the “war of position.” From this point, too, followed a corollary for which Gramsci should be known (and which is echoed in the feminist slogan) — that all life is “political.” Thus, private life, the work place, religion, philosophy, art, and literature, and civil society, in general, are contested battlegrounds in the struggle to achieve societal transformation.” This, according to Fonte, “is the very core of the Gramscian-Hegelian world view — group-based morality, or the idea that what is moral is what serves the interests of “oppressed” or “marginalized” ethnic, racial, and gender groups.”

Originally posted by pisssss
*snip*
I think common sense can suffice that this interpretation does not represent the truth.
The government would be open to and subject to tremendous law suits on such a level
that the awards would bankrupt the government and school system. Such a development
would put teachers and administrators in a very legally precarious position as well.

Well, when the current administration has flat out stated that legal action will not be taken against various black groups, even when they commit crimes, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see them getting away with this. Not to mention all of the disparity in addressing crimes done because of race. I have read a LOT of stories of such, when the victims were white, or Asian, or anything other than black, and the perps clearly stated racial motives, yet the authorities already refuse to call those "hate crimes". Ten years ago, I would agree that it would be unlikely. Now, I can't say the same.

Originally posted by Wotaneyed
This thread was supposed to be about Obama's race based policies but instead of expressing outrage it has degenerated into horrible example of why the nation is doomed. It is unfortunate that when the very foundation of ones thinking has been poisoned, their emotions programmed, and opinions inserted that we all must suffer for it. They schemed and now have their international slave citizens of the future which seek to contaminate everyone else. So sad.

"They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your LEFTISTS in the United States: all these PROFESSORS and all these beautiful CIVIL RIGHTS DEFENDERS. They are instrumental in the process of the SUBVERSION only to DESTABILIZE a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed any more. They know too much...Most of them, yes. Simply because the psychological shock when they will see in the future what the beautiful society of ‘EQUALITY’ and ‘SOCIAL JUSTICE’ means in practice, obviously they will revolt. They will be very unhappy, frustrated people, and the Marxist-Leninist regime does not tolerate these people. Obviously they will join the leagues of dissenters (dissidents)." Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent

“Most of the people who graduated in the sixties (drop-outs or half-baked intellectuals) are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, and the educational system. You are stuck with them. You cannot get rid of them. They are contaminated; they are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern. You cannot change their mind[s], even if you expose them to authentic information, even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still cannot change the basic perception and the logic of behavior. In other words, these people... the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To rid society of these people, you need another twenty or fifteen years to educate a new generation of patriotically-minded and common sense people, who would be acting in favor and in the interests of United States society.” ~ Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent

“in the language of the KGB—or ‘psychological warfare.’ What it basically means is, to change the perception of reality, of every American, to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country.” ~ Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent on Ideological Subversion

"As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him." ~ Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent on Ideological Subversion

“It’s a great brainwashing process, which goes very slowly and is divided into four basic stages. The first one is demoralization; it takes from 15-20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years which is required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy, exposed to the ideology of the enemy. In other words, Marxist-Leninist ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of American students, without being challenged, or counter-balanced by the basic values of Americanism.” ~ Yuri Beznemov, former KGB agent

Antonio Gramsci (1891-1937), Marxist intellectual and politician, “believed that it was necessary first to delegitimize the dominant belief systems of the predominant groups and to create a “counter-hegemony” (i.e., a new system of values for the subordinate groups) before the marginalized could be empowered. Moreover, because hegemonic values permeate all spheres of civil society — schools, churches, the media, voluntary associations — civil society itself, he argued, is the great battleground in the struggle for hegemony, the “war of position.” From this point, too, followed a corollary for which Gramsci should be known (and which is echoed in the feminist slogan) — that all life is “political.” Thus, private life, the work place, religion, philosophy, art, and literature, and civil society, in general, are contested battlegrounds in the struggle to achieve societal transformation.” This, according to Fonte, “is the very core of the Gramscian-Hegelian world view — group-based morality, or the idea that what is moral is what serves the interests of “oppressed” or “marginalized” ethnic, racial, and gender groups.”

A big difference between the United States and England.... Ok so some very good friends of mine contact me and tell me they have a way to make me a billionaire. I show up to there home and they show me a video of Hilary Clinton in Jamaica, in a Hotel with four men doing the nasty...it sounds like I could be rich. Consider the same situation but this time I happen to be visiting England, and the video is about the current Queen in her 20's, in the same situation.....Clearly in such a senario, the response is to be really scared..

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Kashai

Color has nothing to do with us a a whole, that has been estabished by the human genome project...get over it...

As far as blood types, phisical/mental disabilties it makes no difference.....humans exposed to similar enviromental condtions suffer from the same problems....again get over it...

why are you arguing with me? we agree, remember ?
oh yeah, aren't you the one who thinks Obama isn't creating racist policy ??
ok then, call it segregated policy since there is no racial identification included in it, other than African American ... which brings me to another point ... what about the Dominicans, Nigerians, San Salvadorians, Jamaicans, Bahamians and a whole variety of "other" dark complexion minority students ??
how is this legislation fair, equal or encouraging to them, any of them ??

ETA: so, how do we identify this policy ??
since it can't be racial , it's certainly preferential, it's absolutely UnConstitutional, it's contradictory of every aspiration toward equality and it serves to divide the populus even further ... so, how do we label this work of the community DISorganizer ??

I am so tired of hearing about slavery, it was horrid, atrocious, bad, wrong, a sin, a misstep, anyway of saying
not good well thats what it was, does my heart go out to the people who suffered under slavery? absolutely.

Now for the real problem, it wasnt my fault, im white sure but how in gods name does that make it my fault
in any way shape or form? thats doing exactly the same thing in reverse, punishing and using people because
of their race.

now if my ancestors did own slaves feel free to dig them up and ask for reparations, as for me? well i would never
and have never owned a slave or promoted racism in any way shape or form, not against any race, i believe
in true freedom, and i will not be punished for something my free will had no say in whatsoever, i had not even
been thought of when those events were occurring, how would it in any sense of the word be right to punish me
for what other free willed individuals chose to do? the answer is it isnt right and no matter how you say it never will be.

as for the schools, well the issue here is simply how broken our overall school system is, i cant even begin to list
all of the issues that are simply giant flashing neon signs that something is majorly wrong with it. teachers unions have played a major roll in ensuring that mediocre is the norm and that doing well does not benefit a teacher any more than maintaining the bare minimum, there are some good teachers in our schools but they are so few and far between, to introduce an idea that one race should be punished more or less than any other is a complete and total disaster of an idea, its already hard enough on our school kids these days without introducing another way for the honest to be punished and the guilty to be free of the consequences of their actions.

I would also argue that not only does this simply set them up for a major shock in the real world and the possible implications of the encouragement that one can do anything they want because they always got away with it in school, my thought on it is it will not only create more self centered spoiled children who turn into spoiled adults that believe everyone else owes them something simply because they are a certain race, no this can only end badly, how bout this idea, we punish those who break the rules, wow what an amazing idea, i must be the first to have ever thought about it, someone being held responsible for what they do, where the heck did personal responsibility go? we need it back!

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Kashai

 

Color has nothing to do with us a a whole, that has been estabished by the human genome project...get over it...

As far as blood types, phisical/mental disabilties it makes no difference.....humans exposed to similar enviromental condtions suffer from the same problems....again get over it...

why are you arguing with me? we agree, remember ?
oh yeah, aren't you the one who thinks Obama isn't creating racist policy ??
ok then, call it segregated policy since there is no racial identification included in it, other than African American ... which brings me to another point ... what about the Dominicans, Nigerians, San Salvadorians, Jamaicans, Bahamians and a whole variety of "other" dark complexion minority students ??
how is this legislation fair, equal or encouraging to them, any of them ??

ETA: so, how do we identify this policy ??
since it can't be racial

, it's certainly preferential, it's absolutely UnConstitutional, it's contradictory of every aspiration toward equality and it serves to divide the populus even further ... so, how do we label this work of the community DISorganizer ??

edit on 29-7-2012 by Honor93 because: ETA

I am not arguing with you...I am simply adding content

Originally posted by Vitruvian
America for the first time in its slavery ridden history finally has to face up to what she has done. What you are witnessing today is the legacy of slavery and its coming time to acknowledge that the "Piper must be paid" and paying the piper is exactly what is happening. The American people ELECTED Obama so that this could come about because a WHITE government would never have accomplished it and the American voting public was well aware of that fact.

The legacy of slavery is very broad and very deep............its still within the psyche of American blacks to this very day, but more importantly its still within the psyche of American whites. This is a major reason why black Americans ‘seem to be’ so "unfortunate" or make up the major portion of the under class culture in America. Just look around in your cities and you will see the major aspects of SLAVERY manifesting itself everywhere - in crime - in poor housing - poor education and the list goes on and on...........and the WHITES are directly responsible because THEY THEMSELVES have also inherited the evil legacy of SLAVERY.............Its PAYBACK TIME like it or not.

I am white BTW and I am willing to face the responsibility for what has happened in America because of my inheritance – so its about time I faced up to that awful reality………..so might the rest of you smug whites.

edit on 28-7-2012 by Vitruvian because: editing

I suppose when you have a crutch to blame your actions on, you can be as criminal and as stupid as you want.

It's rather pathetic that an entire culture/race in a particular country would live their days out without personal responsibility.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Wow, that is sad that someone photoshtopped that. You can even see where they didn't line up the grey box to the black box right.

Yeah, was what I thought. Mostly serious, and mostly civil, discussion in the thread, though, so far, and that's always a good thing!

Originally posted by Kashai
A big difference between the United States and England.... Ok so some very good friends of mine contact me and tell me they have a way to make me a billionaire. I show up to there home and they show me a video of Hilary Clinton in Jamaica, in a Hotel with four men doing the nasty...it sounds like I could be rich. Consider the same situation but this time I happen to be visiting England, and the video is about the current Queen in her 20's, in the same situation.....Clearly in such a senario, the response is to be really scared..

Any thoughts?

edit on 29-7-2012 by Kashai because: problem with adding content

edit on 29-7-2012 by Kashai because: added content

Yes, I have a thought. I think that you are a nonsensical troll and should be banned from the board. I have you figured out in that regard. You only advocate chaos and have no real concern for anything other than that.

Originally posted by SecretFace

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by de_Genova

Look at all those stars already

Great work Vitruvian.......its about time somebody had the balls to face up to the reality of the way people of color have been so MAL - treated and abused in America.............. We owe them - so REPARATIONS ARE IN ORDER TOO - bigtime
Watch and see - but it'll come about as a result of UNITED NATIONS actions and not on the part of the government.............Otherwise it'll come to a civil war that'll make the war between the states look like a muffin march - a cake walk.............[

edit on 28-7-2012 by de_Genova because: wrong way harrigan

All what stars, exactly? I see TWO.

So taking out on people who had nothing to do with something that happened over 200 years ago is fair? I hate to break it to you but slavery has affected people from all over the world since the dawn of man. As discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you want to dress it up.

I think this was probably intended for either de_Genova or Vetruvian. Totally agree with you - only quoted their stuff to point out the poorly photoshopped nonsense. Trust me, you and I agree on this issue!

reply to post by Kashai

The topic suggest that people should be treated differently because of there race....that is a bunch of baloney

no, the POTUS wrote it in as solid legislation.
that's not coming from the public at large. (us)
didn't you bother to read the OP ??

while most of those posting here would tend to agree with the GP findings, Obama sure hasn't and clearly sees a pathway to enforce his skewed vision rather theirs.

our commentary is regarding the creative penmanship of our POTUS, not whether race should or should not be an issue. He already made it that way, regardless of what science says, get it?
... any thoughts

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Honor93

 

I am talking about when the Puritans came here to escape religious persecution from England, and the founders who then wrote the Constitution were white....but it was not a white "supremacist" society......don't know why you are calling me out...I have been on your side the whole time. I said the whole slave mess came along later and we were for from the first or only society to have slaves.

i get that but guess what? not all Puritans were caucasion (surprising huh?)

www.desiringgod.org...
In The Faithful Preacher: Recapturing the Vision of Three Pioneering African-American Pastors, Thabiti Anyabwile offers a compelling biography of three black pastors. The lives of these men, spanning more than 150 years, were built upon a high and biblical view of pastoral ministry; unfortunately, their names have been held in relative obscurity.

bold = geeee whiz, i wonder why ??

I am just sick of him saying "supremacist" society. What a crock.

totally agreed

i'm not "calling you out" for anything more than conversation.
i understood your comment and that's why i included the link above

reply to post by Vitruvian

So, if I follow your line of thinking, as a European, I am now going to ask Mongolia to pay me back millions & support European countries education system etc. because of Genghis Khan's invasion and killings?
Same goes to the Arabic countries, the Saracens have invaded Europe, colonised Spain. If I follow your line of thinking, today Arab countries owe a lot to Europe and especially Spain.
Slavery & all the crap that went with it was awful, I believe that western countries have shown enough regret and made it illegal.
Do not forget this part of history, but get on with it and let's go ahead.

Note: same situation happens in France, with SOME (I insist that this is not a generality) black & north African people are asking lots in France based on past slavery, colonisation history.
In Germany the issue lies with SOME Jewish people, because of WW2.
All in all, I believe that it is more the French and German people who enjoy flogging themselves over it

reply to post by Honor93


My apologies...just the way it was worded felt kind of attackish couldn't understand why.

I don't think I was getting my point across that whoever was here in the very beginnings of our country, whatever color..were not slaves that I know of...but here of equal stature...so for it to be said that it was started as a white supremacist country is just a ruse to continue the race tensions.