Is stealing worse than murder?

There is a quote from the book The Kite Runner and it goes like this:

"There is only one sin, only one. And that is theft. Every other sin is a variation of theft....When you kill a man, you steal a life. You steal his wife's right to a husband, rob his children of a father. When you tell a lie, you steal someone's right to the truth. When you cheat, you steal the right to fairness."

I think that sums it up nicely, don't you?

reply to post by lampsalot



Uhhh you do understand how bad rape and child molestation screws up a person right?

I'm a victim of both, and to be honest it's ruined my life, and I'm on a plethora of medication for PTSD, Anxiety and sever depression. With out them I do everything in my power to destroy myself, I have several suicide attempts under my belt, suffered abusive relationships(which I put up with), battled a few different drug addictions(which I've conquered 3 years sober may of this year) and even on my psych meds I don't trust anyone, I don't have dreams or goals, I just exist. An Anxious, nervous wreck, night terrors, sleep paralysis and flash backs. It never really goes away.

I know there are a handful of people out there as you suggested who love their bastard sons fathered by their abusers/rapists, but the majority of victims never get over it. So in reality, which is worse dying, or losing everything and continuing to exist. I don't go out, I don't have friends, the only people in my life are my fiance(who's pretty much the only person I do trust, and puts up with my episodes, paranoia, and life) and my family. I get ill often due to stress, and the medications I'm on. They keep me from destroying myself, but in turn make me feel like #. I've recently succumb to an illness we can't figure out, and have been in and out of the hospital and lab an average of 2-3 times a week for the past 2 months and a bit. Nothing Viral, nothing bacterial, not fungus or parasites. At this point were looking into genetics, and neurological tests to figure out why I'm going through what I'm going through. It's not looking good, and I'm better off as you seem to think....

Well, THANK YOU! You're just so great, I can't believe how many people think life is more important than living.

If this turns out how I fear, and I'm diagnosed with some horrific incurable disease I will be sure to take every one of the bastards down who've ruined my life. Mark my words, but I guess that makes me a horrible person in your eyes.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I don't consider a cruel and unusual punishment to be vengeance. It's a crime to do that to any human. The founding fathers of the united states seem to agree.

Whenever I have a question of morality, I consult the same two sources. If it's a question of pollitical morality, I consult the founding fathers and see if they had anything to say related. If it's a problem with the morality of life, I look to see what Jesus had to say about it.

I actually wasn't trying to go where you took it. My point is this. Average people seem unwilling to steal anything, even if it means their own death. I think they're just bluffing, because the human instinct for survival is a lot stronger than anyone realizes. My example of a thief entering a home was not about the thief at all. It was about the willingness to take a life when a simple blow to the head would suffice.

People are unwilling to put themselves in any danger. As I said below, I'm of candonavian descent as well. In ancient times, it was considered dishonorable to shoot an unarmed combatant at a distance, to avoid melee combat and risk to one's own life. I believe that to be a just and true ideal.

HEY! I just read your location. I'm of scandonavian descent as well, and I have learned about the ancient viking history and sense of justice and honor. I can appreciate your standpoint, but I preffer to control my viking thirst, than submit to it.

*hugs* for being a viking in disguise

reply to post by Ilyich


Hello Ilyich,

I just wanted to tell you that you have a lot of courage, telling us about your past and present life as you have lived it.

But, you are safe now.

You Are Safe.

You need to give yourself permission to Live, not just be alive.

Even if you end up having some incurable disease, you can still use whatever time you have left to put your heart and mind at ease and find the peace inside that perfect heart and mind and soul you possess.

You are scarred, but you survived.

You don't have to survive anymore. So, don't live like you are surviving!

I know you're not asking for advice, but I want to tell you that from my own similar experiences, what has helped me the most in coming to terms with who I am now (and realizing that I am no longer that frightened and powerless child), was writing out everything. Everything. EVERYTHING you remember and relive. Some of those writings are covered with deep gashes and black marks and the worst language I could think of where my anger came through. But, I have it down on paper. I don't have to relive it in my head anymore, it's in that book that I keep to remind me that I have survived and I have the power over my own life now.

There are a bunch of us Effed up people who talk together about problems we are having in our present which are related to our pasts, come join us if you feel like letting out some of these emotions: Positivity Thread for Sad and Lonely Souls.

Take care of yourself, Ilyich.

We're rooting for you.

-ottobot

Of course not - but there are always extenuating circumstances. If a person is steeling with the possible intent of depriving you or our loved ones of their right to life, take them out. If a person shoplifts or picks up the basketball in your front yard and walks off with it, well, there was not personal harmful intent involved. The issue is deciding what constitutes a harmful intent.

reply to post by AnarchysAngel


Through an understandable foundation for moral thought, and through practicing one's moral conduct, one may not be able to tell the difference of degree in what are both examples(murdering and stealing) of immoral conduct. You can participate in the direct death of someone just by stealing what is necessary for their survival. It takes continuous, life-long practice of moral awareness in order to make moral choices, from my view. Moral thought and conduct are the most neglected, yet most important endeavour humans will ever participate in, imo.

reply to post by trysts


I agree. People fail to ask themselves what they think on the subject, and skip to the most politically correct answer they have for the company they are keeping. Maybe that is why morals have gone wonky? Too much influence outside of the person's own mind?

reply to post by AnarchysAngel

Is stealing worse than murder?

Murder is a theft...

Originally posted by AnarchysAngel
reply to post by trysts

 

I agree. People fail to ask themselves what they think on the subject, and skip to the most politically correct answer they have for the company they are keeping. Maybe that is why morals have gone wonky? Too much influence outside of the person's own mind?

They have gone "wonkey"! lol I think people just assume that they're moral or not, without understanding that morality is an on-going practice.

reply to post by sarra1833


What would it be called if someone poached game from another's land in a SHTF scenario?

I call that survival. Others would call it theft.

They would say I have an issue with entitlement. I would say they have an issue with morality.

They would say my lack of proper upbringing have made me a crook. I would say their own fear has weakened their moral standing.

They would call me a communist. I would say, taking what you want whether honest or dishonest is called capitalism.

They would say I lack respect for the property of others. I would say they lack respect for God's Earth and his intentions for human kind.

Then the whole situation is yet again out of hand.

I think morality is one of the most difficult questions to answer in life. Yet so many claim to have that subject pinned down.

Originally posted by AnarchysAngel
HEY! I just read your location. I'm of scandonavian descent as well, and I have learned about the ancient viking history and sense of justice and honor. I can appreciate your standpoint, but I preffer to control my viking thirst, than submit to it.

*hugs* for being a viking in disguise

Off the original topic, but I'm Alaskan (We also enjoy summers with abundant sunlight!). My bloodline is rooted in Northern Germany, though... so there's not much separating me from being a Viking. Definitely a barabrian at heart.

Originally posted by Ilyich
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Uhhh you do understand how bad rape and child molestation screws up a person right?

I'm a victim of both, and to be honest it's ruined my life, and I'm on a plethora of medication for PTSD, Anxiety and sever depression. With out them I do everything in my power to destroy myself, I have several suicide attempts under my belt, suffered abusive relationships(which I put up with), battled a few different drug addictions(which I've conquered 3 years sober may of this year) and even on my psych meds I don't trust anyone, I don't have dreams or goals, I just exist. An Anxious, nervous wreck, night terrors, sleep paralysis and flash backs. It never really goes away.

I know there are a handful of people out there as you suggested who love their bastard sons fathered by their abusers/rapists, but the majority of victims never get over it. So in reality, which is worse dying, or losing everything and continuing to exist. I don't go out, I don't have friends, the only people in my life are my fiance(who's pretty much the only person I do trust, and puts up with my episodes, paranoia, and life) and my family. I get ill often due to stress, and the medications I'm on. They keep me from destroying myself, but in turn make me feel like #. I've recently succumb to an illness we can't figure out, and have been in and out of the hospital and lab an average of 2-3 times a week for the past 2 months and a bit. Nothing Viral, nothing bacterial, not fungus or parasites. At this point were looking into genetics, and neurological tests to figure out why I'm going through what I'm going through. It's not looking good, and I'm better off as you seem to think....

Well, THANK YOU! You're just so great, I can't believe how many people think life is more important than living.

If this turns out how I fear, and I'm diagnosed with some horrific incurable disease I will be sure to take every one of the bastards down who've ruined my life. Mark my words, but I guess that makes me a horrible person in your eyes.

edit on 7/28/2012 by Ilyich because: (no reason given)

Well, I think there's also degrees. Maybe if you're molested and raped and abused in a variety of ways for years, that can ruin your life. I don't judge you at all! In the case of this girl who had a baby, it was a one-off thing, her family was very good to her and other than being raped once she seemed to have a pretty blessed life from what I read, and lots of support, and seemed to be a resilient and forgiving person on top of that, so that's probably why she was able to recover so well from what happened to her. So yeah, I think in extreme cases, molestation/rape can be likable to murdering someone, but generally speaking I'd say murder is much worse since you're dead, there's no possible way to recover. But then again, maybe death isn't that bad, or maybe it's even wonderful if there's a Heaven, personally I believe in reincarnation so to me death would be bad since I'm not done with this life.

I think the advice someone else gave to you was great, give yourself permission to start living. I should actually follow this advice as well, because while I haven't been abused by other people, I suffer severe psychological problems and I too have been suicidal at times.

Keep your head up!

Theft is a form of enslavement.

If I am a farmer and I spend 6 hours per day for months upon months tending my crops and then one day after harvest a theft comes in and steals part of them, then logically it follows that the time I put into those crops was now transferred to the thief.

He isn't just taking my crops, the thief is taking my time, my effort, my energies. My time and effort is mine alone to control and spend, yet this thief effectively removes that as a possibility. He removes my *free will* and enslaves me for the time it took to produce such goods as surely as if I was locked in a basement.

Originally posted by sarra1833
There is a quote from the book The Kite Runner and it goes like this:

"There is only one sin, only one. And that is theft. Every other sin is a variation of theft....When you kill a man, you steal a life. You steal his wife's right to a husband, rob his children of a father. When you tell a lie, you steal someone's right to the truth. When you cheat, you steal the right to fairness."

Nobody has a "right" to the truth. My honesty is earned, not given freely at somebody's request.

If a Nazi Policeman kicks down your door and demands to know where you've hidden the Jews, do they have a "right" to the truth that you're denying? I don't think so.