World leaders promoting tolerance; but what do you really know about Islam?

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
www.telegraph.co.uk...

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
www.cbsnews.com...&date=2011-04-06
www.webcitation.org...

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
people-press.org...

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
pajamasmedia.com...
www.ynetnews.com...

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
www.worldpublicopinion.org...

Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah
30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah
45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative)
43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative)
pewglobal.org...

Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative).
49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative)
49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative)
39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative)
pewglobal.org...

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
pewglobal.org...

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
www.populuslimited.com...
www.danielpipes.org...

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
pewresearch.org...=60

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
www.people-press.org...

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
pewresearch.org...=60

ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities.
27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
www.scotsman.com...
www.danielpipes.org...

Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
www.fosis.org.uk...
www.danielpipes.org...

ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.
www.icmresearch.co.uk...
www.danielpipes.org...

Sorry, ran out of space. There's more if you really need it.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Some verses can be taken literally, others not so much. Sufis in fact believe that there are many possible interpretations of the Quran.

The Quran is LITERALLY the Word of God but that doesn't mean every verse is literal. And even if every verse is literal that doesn't mean that it cannot be interpreted. One must interpret. Interpretation is understanding. Even if you take it literally you are INTERPRETING it literally.

The Quran was passed down to Muhammad (saws) in his lifetime and written down by his close companions while he was still alive. He taught on the Quran to those around him. So, no, not only God would know the true meaning. Muhammad would know the true meaning. Those around him would know the true meaning. Many people today and throughout history have known the true meaning.

Think of it like a poem (and may Allah forgive me for likening His greatest revelation to something as trivial as a poem). If someone writes a poem, the meaning is known to them. But then they reveal the poem to a trusted friend, line by line for him to memorize. During this revelation period, the original poet is also teaching the friend the meaning of his poem. The friend is then going to his close friends and sharing the poem and its meaning. His friends write the poem down. For a thousand years people are reading this poem, and the commentary that is kept with it. Through that commentary that came directly from the friend of the poet it is known the meaning of the poem. Some people, though, will ignore that or not even get into the commentary on the poem.

Could some people take each line of the poem literally? Sure. But they would be missing a lot of the beauty in doing so.

reply to post by charles1952


POLLS? Polls can be manipulated for literally ANY purpose. I can find you polls to justify anything. Polls can be shaped very easily. In those polls was EVERY Muslim worldwide polled? If not, why not? If not, then who did they poll and why? What areas?

Are there any polls that literally poll every Muslim worldwide? The answer is no. I was never polled. So a bunch of "local" polls is not the same as producing evidence that 15% of ALL MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE support terrorism.

For instance, "26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified."

What is "younger Muslims"? What age? In 2007 I was 27. Am I younger? Why weren't older Muslims polled? Also it makes it seem like EVERY "younger Muslim in America" was polled. That's what the language implies. I will bet you one thousand dollars this was not the case.

Again look at the ambiguous phrasing of the "poll." It doesn't define what is younger and it implies that all Muslims were polled. I call shenanigans.

Try again.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


Bro, if you haven't noticed, I bowed out. I've been tryna debate with people on here since 2010 about Islam, and they don't WANT to hear it. So at this point, I'm gonna enjoy the energy of the holy month, make some dhikr, send salawat, and urge you to do the same. Folks on here can ruin the entire vibe. God bless.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Alhumdulillah, I wondered where you were, akh. Well I don't mind giving out some information when I can. I definitely consider it as dawah. And also I believe that defending Islam here and correcting misinformation, especially during the month of Ramadan, will result in an abundance of blessings, Allahu alim.

Still there is wisdom in your advice and I will definitely take it under consideration. Have a blessed Ramadan and talk to you soon, insha'Allah.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Dear CoolerAbdullah786,

I'm sorry that you're unfamiliar with polling theory, statistical sampling, and data analysis. I'm also sorry that you didn't seem to follow those links to where the answers to your questions might have been found.

I can only hope that some readers here have some understanding of these matters, so that they will be able to benefit from them.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by g146541
Good show Op exposing those brown people muslims for their evil ways.
I am sure glad that I am surrounded by all of those "peace loving" christians!
*Note: christian translation of peace is all of the other religions wiped from the face of the earth.
You poor religious zealots, who would kill anyone for their choice of who they are praying to.
Tools one and all.
Divide and conquer, we're so easy to manipulate...

While I think the OP is off-base in making it seem as though those who do not take the worst, most outdated, overtly political and pro-war parts of the Koran are in the minority, when in fact, the peace-loving individuals who don't go around killing the raped, etc., are the majority, just like most Christians are not OLd Testament nutjobs, I find your post far more ridiculous.

Your view of what Christianity is, is as twisted as the hateful groups common to the SE U.S.A. Who claim to be Christians. Those who do Lucifer's work and claim to be doing so in Jesus' name are not only not Christian, they are decidedly anti-Christian. Your thinking would be like saying "All Lamborghinis are slow", because a bunch of loud-mouthed Smart Car owners tell you their cars are Lamborghinis. Simply mind-boggling that someone could be so easily duped into believing that people who want to kill everyone who isn't like them are Christians simply because they say they are, when their actions clearly demonstrate they don't know the first thing about Christianity.

Middle School Reading Comprehension refresher courses would go a long way to helping such completely misguided and wrong thinking be corrected.

reply to post by charles1952


Your comment is nothing but one big ad hominem. Telling me what I'm familiar and unfamiliar with as if you have any knowledge of what I know? Please.

As I said there is no definitive poll of every Muslim worldwide that can justify the statement that 15% of ALL MUSLIMS are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers. That's absolute nonsense and you definitely chose the wrong statement to ride in on your white horse and attempt to defend.

Geez, i'm tired of posting the same thing !!!!



Visual

The thing about smart people is - they sound crazy to dumb inhabitants.

Originally posted by The Old American

I'm talking about the history of anti-Christian and anti-Jewish drivel that's rampant on ATS. Speaking out against Islam is relatively new here.

/TOA

LOL, so true. I remember years back when anybody that posted a xtian thread no matter what forum was getting trolled HARD with hate.

reply to post by charles1952


Where is the poll on how many Americans or Christians who approve of attacking and killing Muslims? Very one sided and very disappointing. No worries I went and found some polls and statistics as well...

9/11: Five Years Later
John L. Esposito
acmcu.georgetown.edu...

The result is reflected in a recent USA Today/Gallup Poll which found substantial minorities of Americans admitting to negative feelings or prejudice against Muslims and favor heightened security measures with Muslims to help prevent terrorism. 44% say Muslims are too extreme in their religious beliefs. Nearly one quarter of Americans, 22%, say they would not want a Muslim as a neighbor; fewer than half believe U.S. Muslims are loyal to the United States.


Cair
Council on American-Islamic relations
www.cair.com...

The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life Poll in 2004:

Almost 4 in 10 Americans have an unfavorable view of Islam, about the same number that have a favorable view.

A plurality of Americans (46 percent) believes that Islam is more likely than other religions to encourage violence among its believers.

ABC News March, 2005 Poll:

Four months after 9/11, 14 percent believed mainstream Islam encourages violence; today it’s 34 percent.

Today 43 percent think Islam does not teach respect for the beliefs of non-Muslims — up sharply from 22 percent.

People who feel they do understand Islam are much more likely to view it positively. Among Americans who feel they do understand the religion, 59 percent call it peaceful and 46 percent think it teaches respect for the beliefs of others.

CAIR 2005 Poll on American Attitudes Towards Islam and Muslims:

The level of knowledge of Islam is virtually unchanged from 2004. Only two percent of survey respondents indicated that they are “very knowledgeable” about the religion.

Almost 60 percent said they “are not very knowledgeable” or “not at all knowledgeable” about Islam.

Nearly 10 percent said Muslims believe in a moon god.

Just a little over one-third of survey respondents reported awareness of Muslim leaders condemning terrorism.

Cornell University Study:

In all, about 44 percent said they believe that some curtailment of civil liberties is necessary for Muslim Americans.

Twenty-six percent said they think that mosques should be closely monitored by U.S. law enforcement agencies.

Twenty-nine percent agreed that undercover law enforcement agents should infiltrate Muslim civic and volunteer organizations, in order to keep tabs on their activities and fund raising

Such public attitude translates into discrimination, exclusion and violence. In 2005, CAIR processed a total of 1,972 civil rights complaints, compared to 1,522 cases reported to CAIR in 2004.[ix] This constitutes a 29.6 percent increase in the total number of complaints of anti-Muslim harassment, violence and discriminatory treatment from 2004. For the second straight year, the 1,972 reports also marks the highest number of Muslim civil rights complaints ever reported to CAIR in its twelve-year history. In addition, CAIR received 153 reports of anti-Muslim hate crime complaints, an 8.6 percent increase from the 141 complaints received in 2004.

There's more if you really need it .... sorry about the lack of hyperlinks but I figure it wont kill anyone to cut and paste and besides I'm tired. I took information from the first couple pages that popped in my search so some of these polls are older but I think you get the point. As I said before there is plenty out there.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Dear CoolerAbdullah786,

I'm sorry, if I caused any negative emotions in you, that was not my intent. Primarily I was saying that the idea that 1% or fewer of Muslims world-wide were extremists is contradicted by other evidence.

I said that you didn't have knowledge in those fields because of your statements.

As I said there is no definitive poll of every Muslim worldwide that can justify the statement that 15% of ALL MUSLIMS are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers

Polls can be shaped very easily. In those polls was EVERY Muslim worldwide polled? If not, why not?

Are there any polls that literally poll every Muslim worldwide? The answer is no.

Also it makes it seem like EVERY "younger Muslim in America" was polled. That's what the language implies.

Again look at the ambiguous phrasing of the "poll." It doesn't define what is younger and it implies that all Muslims were polled.

No one can seriously make these statements and say they understand polling theory, statistical sampling, or even the definition of "poll." It's a little like a famous musician, immersed in his instrument, asking a physicist friend if he can have a few dozen quantum particles to put on his mantlepiece.

That 2007 Pew poll that you're objecting to has, as one of it's parts, a fascinating 108 page report on precisely how the poll was conducted, how every question was worded, and the results for each question, plus a section on their analysis methods. I know I will go back to it for a better understanding of the American Muslim.

I would encourage everyone to look at it. They made a 1.7 million phone calls over 14 weeks and got complete answers to their half-hour survey from 60,000 American Muslims. That is a huge survey, probably the largest ever done.

With respect,
Charles1952

Wow! This thread started out as a thread about what is really known about Islam, and the recent calls for tolerance among the faiths. It has devolved into some deformed creature from the black lagoon. I have to say the Muslim members have gone out of the their way to ease the anxiety of other users, but I think it is beating a dead horse.

People get set in their ways from life experience, what they have been taught, reading stuff on the internet which is sometimes true but often times embellished and false, and some are just plain xenophobic about things they just can't seem to grasp. With any group of people whether it be along the lines of race, religion, economic status, political ideology, you name it, and there are bound to be both good and bad among those groups.

Of course with atrocities, whether they are committed by Christians, Muslim, Jews, or any group? It is going to get a person's blood boiling if they have any once of humanity and conscience. People want those that destroy, rape, pillage, or resort to any form of human depravity punished. That is only natural, but we have too catch ourselves before engaging in blind rage, fear-mongering, and generalization. I have tried to the best of my ability to judge people by their individual merits, and not as a group. I'll admit, I have fallen off the wagon but I strive to adhere to that principle.

The wrongdoings of some should not be placed upon the heads of others, because they happen to be a part of group or religion through no fault of their own. That is ludicrous. I can assure to anyone, that there is not one religion in the entire world that does not have blood on its hands, and that is because religion is adhered too by fallible beings. We can all agree that humanity is imperfect. The people that follow those religions are imperfect as well.

Therefore, I will remain indifferent to this topic and all of this religious back and forth. I have a reasonable knowledge of history, and all of the monotheistic religions have committed atrocities. No use spitting back and forth at each other over it. It gets rather redundant. I can say for myself, I have met both good and bad in all the religions being brought up in this thread. Although, with those religions, there are also people who hate, murder, rape, and pillage. On the other hand, there are also good, decent, and honest people in those religions. That seems to go along with the territory of being human. Just some rambling on my part, and continue to hack away at each other over this, that, and everything else.

I understand that there are peaceful Muslims and I'm sure the Muslims who post on this board are also wishing to just live in peace. My issue with Islam, is that because it truly believes that it is the one true religion, there is no tolerance towards any other religion or for non-religious people. This is the reason why in EVERY majority Muslim country, there is massive persecution of non-Islamic individuals/communities. This is the reason that in EVERY country that has almost or close to half the population as Muslim, there is conflict and war.

Now one could look at those countries and say that it could well be an issue of resources and it just so happens that religion is strongest in countries that are, on ground level, poor. However, this also seems to happen in countries that are not strictly poor. Simply put, if a belief system is manipulated or transalated to instruct its followers that it is the one true religion and that all others are false, it is creating an aggressive, not passive, mind set. Yes Christianity did this also, but this is not 500 years ago, Christianity does not look to rage war on all non-believers, many Muslims unfortunately do or do agree to such action.

The Quran does teach peace, it teaches to respect the land where Muslims live, to respect nature and animals, it does teach tolerance to a degree, but it also teaches war or conversion of all non-Muslims in such a way that to uneducated young Muslims, this can be twisted to only teach such so called values.

The Western world of today is far more liberal than the religious world of yesterday. Even the Vatican has relaxed its stance somewhat due to the changing and more liberal society that exists today. However, there is no such give from Islam, it will never give, because this is counter to the view that it is the one true religion.

Islam can never live alongside any people of the Western world, unless it learns to truly tolerate and accept all that is non-Islamic. As a minority of followers, it barely gets by a day without attracting some form of conflict counter to those values of the West (trying to introduce Sharia law in areas of Muslim majority, declaring areas no go for whites, arguing against laws/policies perceived to be against Muslims and this extremist terrorist activity aside). Yet, this is while they are a minority, so what peace would there be if those numbers were to increase and were to become equal or close to a majority?

My only hope is that as the years role on and education becomes more wides spread, most Muslims will become secular in part or full. I know of a few former Muslims who do believe this to be the case, although it may not be represented in figures due to fear of openly declaring their departure from the faith. However, another disturbing trend is the cult like ways and almost gang like mind set of many younger Muslims, more so in the Western world. Many could say it is part of a desire to be included in to something that brings a sense of meaning to their lives. I do believe that this is a general problem with the youth, certainly in Britain, having too much and become totally unmotivated as to achieve, using excuse after excuse and expecting a cribs lifestyle to fall at their feet, like the footballers and TV and Music "stars" they so admire. However, I feel that Islam is becoming far more militant in the younger generation of those that live within the western world for no other reason but to treat it as some form of gang membership, as opposed to a religion.

I can never out and out say that every follower of a religion is bad, is evil and represents the worst of Human nature or that a religion in general is evil, as I'm sure there are many Muslims across the world who just want to live in peace. However, what worries me with Islam in general is its arrogance of being the definitive religion and word of God and as such its reluctance to change any of its teachings, or even mordernise them. It is this that to me that then questions how can such a belief co-exist with the liberal ways of the West?

I do not want to see a war against Islam. I do not wish for harm against Muslims. However, I also do not want to live in fear that a Muslim majority in my country will represent the exact same thing as every other country with a Muslim majority.

There is good and bad in all religions, but this is 2012 and unfortunately Islam is living in 1434 in every possible way.

reply to post by SecretFace


SFace, re "I do not want to see a war against Islam. I do not wish for harm against Muslims. However, I also do not want to live in fear that a Muslim majority in my country will represent the exact same thing as every other country with a Muslim majority. "

I reckon it won't be the MAJORITY, more to the point, it will be minorities in the muslim communities in every country that will continually cause the problems of of violence. IMO it's a dogma that brings the fanatic to the surface. And the rest just sit back, throw up their hands and say "it's not islam!" but it IS. It gives those maggots their justification. REMOVE ISLAM and they won't be able to hide behind it! Then they will be seen for the pathetic murderers that they are. Yep, I know, on come the "then emove christianity" brigade. I agree, without religion, the world would be a much better place.

According to Jewish religious texts
Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full.