Christians... riddle me this!

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

When humans turned their back to god and started to destroy nature for their own profit, Earth turned into hell.

Thank you. Well said.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Pantheism is the belief that everything is god. I didn't even have to look that up.

Can you provide a Thesaurus or dictionary reference to Pantheism that states it's Christian or Biblical theology proper?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

Everlasting destruction is Biblical terminology for the opposite of eternal life. Those not enjoying eternal life have everlasting separation from the Lord. That's the horror of Hell, not the flames.

It seems as though to me that no one is enjoying eternal life at this moment, we all die at some point.

Also, where does the bible state that everlasting destruction is terminology for the opposite of eternal life? Seems to me that man is the one that came up with that idea.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So basically you're saying that studying the bible and trying to find that hidden meaning is torturing it? So it's better to just take it at face value instead of actually studying its meaning? That seems a bit backwards in my opinion.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Can you find one that says it isn't? Answer that and you'll have my answer.

This thread has semi-devolved into 2 points of view.

1. Literal interpretation of the Bible vs Conjecture based on intuition (?).
2. Pantheism vs Christianity.

Seems to be a common occurrence in all of the religious threads. I am address the last point first. Having been a very serious student of Buddhism before my conversion to Christianity I have to ask the pantheist what is so joyful about total dissolution of self and amalgamation into the Godhead in such a manner that you stop being and be one with everything. Where is the you? Where is the freewill? If God were everything would everything not be perfect? What is nirvana other than death of self/ego? If we can all find the God within how come the cities of Buddhist countries are not shining with a radiant light from all of the so called enlightened god-men? Where are the Bodhisattvas? Shouldn't they be down here saving us all? How does that play into their quest to end their own suffering through desire? If they will anything it stems from desire. The journey to enlightenment is doomed to failure from the beginning because it is born of desire. Buddhism is ultimately very fatalistic and bordeline nihilism in my experience.

To the first point raised I believe we will forever be at an impasse because while one group adheres to a standard (the Bible) the other group will draw conclusions from anywhere. This is not inherently bad but the latter group generally fails to be able to convey their "meaning" because it is a potpourri of cherry picked ideas from variable sources most often being contemporary commentaries from authors and scholars.

Now that that is out of the way we can continue to direct the conversion back on topic.
I would like to ask the pantheist/Buddhist/Taoist or whatever other flavor of eastern ism/ist what is your concept of the afterlife? I ask because it is so antithetical to the idea of a reward unless you consider an end to karmic rebirth and death but that in itself does not necessarily feel rewarding.

reply to post by Akragon


You have the wrong perception of heaven and a very limted view of what God has planned for us. Hell is a very dark lonely and horrible place.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Considering i didn't give my view... And was only hoping to hear from others...

I believe you are just trolling like you always do in my threads...

And... It would be a cold day in hell when i need your opinion of anything i post...

Buh bye now....

reply to post by Akragon


Its usualy the troller who accuses others of trolling. Im finding it hard to believe you are even sincere in making this thread. Seems like just another one of your `attack Christiany threads`.


P.S u made your view very clear.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So basically you're saying that studying the bible and trying to find that hidden meaning is torturing it? So it's better to just take it at face value instead of actually studying its meaning? That seems a bit backwards in my opinion.

Rule #1: "When the plain sense of the verse makes sense seek no other sense."

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

Everlasting destruction is Biblical terminology for the opposite of eternal life. Those not enjoying eternal life have everlasting separation from the Lord. That's the horror of Hell, not the flames.

It seems as though to me that no one is enjoying eternal life at this moment, we all die at some point.

Also, where does the bible state that everlasting destruction is terminology for the opposite of eternal life? Seems to me that man is the one that came up with that idea.

The body dies, the spirit never does. The body is just the hardware that houses the spirit. Spirits have no mass, thus cannot be affected by acceleration or gravity. How familiar are you with the General Relativity Theory?

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
This thread has semi-devolved into 2 points of view.

1. Literal interpretation of the Bible vs Conjecture based on intuition (?).
2. Pantheism vs Christianity.

Seems to be a common occurrence in all of the religious threads. I am address the last point first. Having been a very serious student of Buddhism before my conversion to Christianity I have to ask the pantheist what is so joyful about total dissolution of self and amalgamation into the Godhead in such a manner that you stop being and be one with everything. Where is the you? Where is the freewill?

Let me ask you this: where is the joy in knowing that everything you do in life is predetermined?knowing that no matter what you do, you didn't make any difference at all? That what you did was not you, but a god that planned it out before you were ever born?

Where is the joy in knowing that every moment of your life is spent being watched by a god who judges everything you do? Ready to send you to eternal torture on a whim of a thought?

Where is the joy in thinking that nothing you do in life really matters or counts, other than worshipping your god? That nothing you did was ever your doing, only gods?

Where is the joy in thinking you are somehow inferior to anything?

I am the me and you are the you, but everything is together is the it. There is still self even if you believe you are part of something bigger, why would you think otherwise?

Where is the free will knowing that you have no free will because god has already made the decision for you long ago?

If God were everything would everything not be perfect?

If your god were perfect then why would he make such imperfect creatures as ourselves? That's two sides of the same coin right there.

What is nirvana other than death of self/ego?

My nirvana is learning something new or discovering something I've never seen before. My nirvana is living my life and experiencing its beauty and wonder.

Where is your nirvana other than what's waiting for you after this life?

If we can all find the God within how come the cities of Buddhist countries are not shining with a radiant light from all of the so called enlightened god-men? Where are the Bodhisattvas? Shouldn't they be down here saving us all? How does that play into their quest to end their own suffering through desire? If they will anything it stems from desire.

For the same reason your god does not come down and save us all probably.

Does god not desire for us to believe in him? Why is desire such a bad thing even though you desire good?

The journey to enlightenment is doomed to failure from the beginning because it is born of desire. Buddhism is ultimately very fatalistic and bordeline nihilism in my experience.

So its better yo just sit back and take everyones word for it? Enlightenment is not a desire, it is the result of the desire for truth. If it is a sin to desire what should rightfully be ours, then I guess I'm the biggest sinner around and I'm proud of it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So you're saying that a god who loves 'unconditionally' and allows the ones he loves 'unconditionally' to go to hell for eternity to suffer makes sense?

That a talking snake and a talking bush make sense?

That god gave us free will but at the same time controls everything we do makes sense?

That a boy being born from a virgin makes sense?

That a man walking on water and turning water into wine makes sense?

Have you ever seen any of that stuff happen within your lifetime? If not, then how does any of that possibly make any sense?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


How do those that go to hell not experience eternal life? Don't their spirits (which never die) go into he'll and experience everlasting pain and torture? Isn't to experience something to have life?

I am familiar with the basics of relativity but I do not claim to be an expert. What's your point?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If not, then how does any of that possibly make any sense?

Who cares? If God isn't real, then it doesn't matter, and if he is real, you are welcome to take up your concerns with him when you meet.

God doesn't measure up to your expectations? Too bad for you, because it's an infinite arrogance to think that he should.

reply to post by adjensen


So you don't care? Why not? Shouldn't you care? Why shouldn't I care? If you don't care that is your own fault.

God controlling everything you do means it doesn't matter because it was already pre-planned beforehand.

Basically, your belief system centers around stuff not mattering, so what's your point exactly? Contradiction much?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen

 

So you don't care? Why not? Shouldn't you care? Why shouldn't I care? If you don't care that is your own fault.

Sorry, I guess I didn't make that clear.

I don't care about you and your complaints.

If you aren't happy with what God is, you are welcome to present your case to him when you meet him. Whining to me or to NOTurTypical about how unfair you think God is does nothing, because your belief that your expectations somehow matter is crazy.

If God doesn't exist, your expectations are crazy because you're unhappy with a non-entity. If he does exist, HE CREATED THE UNIVERSE, Ace, and you're crazy for thinking that your values are somehow better than his. Where do you get off telling him how he's supposed to act?

reply to post by adjensen


If god controls everything I do but wants me to believe in him then why is he making me not believe in him? He wants me to believe in him but since he is controlling what I do then he doesn't want me to believe in him?

How does that make sense? He's condemning me to eternal torture and suffering because of what he made me do?

Sounds like he's sending me to hell just because he can. That doesn't sound very much like unconditional love to me.

reply to post by adjensen


How can I be upset at something I do not believe in? That's like saying I'm upset my favorite team lost even though they won, it doesn't make sense.

All I'm doing is looking from your side of the fence and applying what I see to my side. I'm not mad at your god because I do not believe in your god, get it?

I'm not telling your god how to act, I'm questioning you on why he acts the way he does.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen

 

How can I be upset at something I do not believe in? That's like saying I'm upset my favorite team lost even though they won, it doesn't make sense.

All I'm doing is looking from your side of the fence and applying what I see to my side. I'm not mad at your god because I do not believe in your god, get it?

Sure, and with that in mind, we're in full agreement. If God doesn't exist, your "I don't believe" is a sensible point, and if he does, you are welcome to argue with him about the fact of his existence.

So, why all the arguments?