Christians... riddle me this!

the answer to that may take awhile .... so far none have met the entry requirements ...

I think it is like a huge meditation experience...everything feels beautiful etc. You have no body...might as well just hypnotise yourself and tell yourself your in heaven as it is.

reply to post by babybowrain


First star!!



Welcome to ATS my friend...

reply to post by Akragon


Just knowing that there will be no more tears, sorrow, pain and death is appealing.

Revelations 21:1-5

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” 5He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

It's my Christian belief that God will establish a new heaven and new earth after the second coming. It's a chance for the elect to enjoy God's creation as He first intended it.

I believe that Christians who have died are in the current heaven praying and waiting for the second coming. The bible isn't very direct on this I think, but the ones who have died already are also awaiting resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

The passage below discusses the "kick-off" of the end times. The "prayers of all God's people" are offered up as incense to God. I take it as the prayers of all Christians for Christ's return. Leads me to believe that the saved soul will still serve God in some capacity before the second coming.
Revelations 8:1-5

8 When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. 3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. 4 The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it on the earth; and there came peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning and an earthquake.

That's how I see it. I'm not interested in arguing about the validity of Christianity or the Bible, just giving my viewpoint.

reply to post by Akragon


I think you might be projecting a bit too much and it skews your thinking. You assume Christians are simple minded about Him because you are simple minded about Him.
He is the creator of the universe. All things are made by Him and for Him.
He is the Logos, the Word.
The Hebrew mystics recognize the logos as being that active part of Creation that all matter took form from in action from Hayah speaking. Yashayah is the form of Hayah that is known to the material world in the way we can know Him.
We simply cannot know the eternal in a finite world. It makes no sense to us that Yah has no beginning or and end because we only know of things that have a beginning and an end. The finite cannot fathom the existance of the infinate as we do in the material realm we exist in at this time. I cannot imagine what it will be like to be with Him and be immersed within His countenance where all is light by His countenance alone.We will be made Priests and Kings serving a purpose that is beyond our imaginations producing nothing but good and being fruitful.
We know only in parts due to our limited condition in these temporary bodies in a temporary world.
The pot simply cannot know of the potters plans for him as a clump of clay.

Sorry for your presuppositions. They seem so limited to me.

reply to post by manna2

You assume Christians are simple minded about Him because you are simple minded about Him.

You are the only one making assumptions my friend... i just asked a question or two...

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

reply to post by Akragon


I respect everyones idea of Heaven. But I believe people are in heaven, hell or somewhere inbetween here on earth.

Take TPTB, they are in heaven because they enjoy making people suffer. :- allowing others to starve and get horific injuries in war, the latter are in hell.

When all the people mentioned die, and return for their next life, the roles are reversed.

TPTB will become the victims,.... in hell for what they did,..... and the victims will become TPTB in heaven to see how they do.

This continues untill they become balanced individuals.

This also happens to them that are almost there, eg., Someone who does nothing will return as someone who does to much etc.,

Maybe after all these tests, we could get to the heaven others speak of.
Don't forget one persons heaven is another persons hell.

reply to post by Akragon


Did I lay judgement on you? Absolutely not. I pointed out how simple minded your op was. I never addressed your sin or it would be good for you to reprove me. I addressed you in a philosophical way, pointing out how limited you made believers because of the limits you provided.
It's good that you can quote scripture when it moves you. It would be better if you knew enough of it to bring it into context.
But don't let this log potruding from my forhead knock you out while I jostle with you in execising discernment.

reply to post by manna2


Whatever you say bro..

Don't like it?

Don't read it...

You know what they say about assumptions right?

reply to post by manna2


You can't understand an infinite concept. And that's what Source is: infinite. But in your desperation for answers and reassurance, you have given Source a personality, a name, and an agenda. It makes it easier for you to control the chaos of the world in your own mind, the only place where life matters.

Master your fear, and you will not need to understand Source. But of course, there's one requiem - you must want to have control of your own destiny. And that's what frightens you people most. Having to choose your destiny, choose the road that will lead you there, and choose what you will do along that road. So many choices, no clear right or wrong, and all the way there, many many difficulties. Obviously you want to understand the chaos, to believe that no matter what, you will emerge unscathed. But pain teaches lessons too, just as much as any pleasure. And you cannot have order without chaos. All returns to one another eventually.

But you have to expand your mind to grasp the chaos.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Isn't it a tad nieve to think God could call creation into being with a spoken sentence but is impotent to get a message to us revealing Himself to us?

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

You have chastised me for not giving you a flag; but, you never even responded to the answer I did give that I posted on your thread.

Oh and I forgot to mention that your title was direct theft from one of my first ones.

reply to post by AQuestion


chastised? Really?

Dear Akragon,

You get a star just for being you. I will take it on faith that you believe me to be a Christian; but, others may not know so I state it to be fair.


What... no flag? i thought it was a fair question...

Don't be so touchy my friend... its all in good fun. Plus its a quesiton that makes you think

which question are you refering to?

Oh and I forgot to mention that your title was direct theft from one of my first ones.

Ahh... that explains the first reply.

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

You never responded to my answer to your OP. Having said that, I will give you a flag just because you ask questions worthy of being responded to. I was chastising you by reminding you that you did not respond. Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


I liked your response...It got a star

Im not here to correct or give my opinion of others views of heaven... Perhaps if we could combine all of everyones best thoughts of it... we might be close

It just so happens that my OP included my own hopes of said place...

Beer and Golf

Maybe Gocarts & Waterslides too!

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

Fair enough. Beer and skittles to you too. If I post on one of your threads it will be because I respect your questions. I know you know your bible and would never be foolish enough to give a answer that was not thought out. That does not mean that we ever need to agree. I also always enjoy the playful nature of your questions. I believe you want people to think about what they say rather than merely repeat what they have been taught. Peace dear friend, if I may call you that.

reply to post by AQuestion


You may...

I don't like skittles though...

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

It is my understanding that "skittles" is a game that was played in English pubs and I may be wrong. I believe it is the game that is like shuffleboard played on a table with a flat metal disk. In either case, always a pleasure.

reply to post by AQuestion