Were We Founded As A Christian Nation?

Originally posted by Fromabove
From a founding document, (The Declaration of Independence).

" We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights..."

Key words here are "created" and Creator, and there you have it.

Creator from what religion? There were hundreds of different religions at that time. That is why they said we should allow different religions.

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

What does the phrase "Christian Nation" mean?

I think everyone has their own idea of what that means, but we can only discuss it rationally if there is one meaning. So, if you don't mind, please let us know what is meant by "Christian Nation".

edit on 7/23/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

Christian means follower of Christ. Christ being the son of God(the Judeo-Christian God).

Jesus Christ is the Only Way to Eternal Salvation With God the Father
We Are Saved by Grace Through Faith – Not by Works
Jesus Christ is the Son of God
The Incarnation of Jesus Christ
The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ From the Grave
The Ascension of Jesus Christ
The Doctrine of the Trinity
The Holy Bible is the Inspired and Infallible Word of God
We Are Baptized With the Holy Spirit at the Moment of Salvation
Regeneration by the Holy Spirit
The Doctrine of Hell
The 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ Back to our Earth

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Personal definitions of "Morality" cannot be used as an excuse to judge an entire nation of people.

Sure they can. I'm entitled to my opinion. Thanks! 

What you consider "moral" I consider highly "immoral" in regards to religion and it's indoctrination of young minds.

And that proves my point. Back then more people shared similar morals and Christian beliefs. Nowadays people are all over the spectrum. 

See how I could say that our current conditions are the result of the increase in radical religious thinking and individuals over the course of the last 30 years?

From radical Islam to Radical Christianity, to Fred Phelps & Scientology.

You can't argue that US isn't a Christian nation then turn around and blame the country's problems on Christianity.

Now I don't think the above cause blaming a whole group of people for an entire nation's problem is an exercise in insanity.

The problems didn't arise because the weather changed...it's because the people have changed. 

reply to post by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Christian means follower of Christ. Christ being the son of God(the Judeo-Christian God).

Yeah, I know what the words mean. I'm just asking you what defines a "Christian Nation"?

Does it mean that only Christians live there?
Does it mean that every person should be a Christian?
That our laws should be made by Christians?
That other religions aren't welcome here?
That Christians are the "boss"?

What does it MEAN when you say the US is a "Christian Nation"?

Here, maybe this will help. Finish this sentence for me, please:

A Christian Nation is a nation that ______________________________________ . Or
A Christian Nation is a nation where ______________________________________ .

I have asked MANY people this question and haven't gotten an answer, so I really appreciate you helping me to understand what it means. Thank you.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Sure they can. I'm entitled to my opinion. Thanks! 

I didn't mean you could not do it, I just meant it was stupid to judge a whoel group of people based on a few individuals reactions/beliefs.

If you make it a habit of doing so, thats all fine and dandy, but you are applying a very rudementary and closed minded point of view to people you have no actual information on.

Remember you have the right to your own opinions, not your own facts. If your opinions are not supported by the facts, then you are wrong, regardless of what your opinion is.

"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation nor does truth become error because nobody sees it."

And that proves my point. Back then more people shared similar morals and Christian beliefs. Nowadays people are all over the spectrum. 

Which doesn't mean that society was "better" than, considering they liked slavery, the oppresion of women and the 100's of other things I could list that were VERY immoral in today's context of the word.

You can't argue that US isn't a Christian nation then turn around and blame the country's problems on Christianity.

I never blamed Christianity, I state that I could argue that all the problems are the results of religious extremism. It's a little funny that you only saw the word Christian in that example when I noted other religions.

The problems didn't arise because the weather changed...it's because the people have changed. 

Truth is there were just as many people against the church back in the day as there are now. People just don't get killed today for being critical of things as much as they did back then. Or get shunned from the community etc..

Society in general has changed, and has seen less and less need for religion, because religion no longer provides what it use to. Spiritually it's the same, but in the sense that the church "provides" for you via other means, it does not anymore.

The church is largely becoming irrelevant. Those who still cling to it are truly upset by this, so they attempt to justify their faith by claiming that the country was supposedly founded on these principles and some how God is "punishing" America for not making good on it's promise.

~Tenth

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

It doesn't matter because we are basically an atheist nation now. You can see the results of that now. We were founded as a Christian nation, a nation of Christians, but no longer.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

It doesn't matter because we are basically an atheist nation now. .

Well thank God!

reply to post by seabag

When I say the US was a ‘Christian nation’ I mean it was founded by and designed for people of high morals and ethics; people who fear God and strive to do the right thing every day;

Yeahhhh

Slavery
Sexism
Racism
Classism
Torture
Genocide

Lets go back to the glory days

reply to post by RealSpoke

Yeahhhh 

Slavery 
Sexism 
Racism 
Classism 
Torture 
Genocide 

Lets go back to the glory days

Is that how you define Christian values??

No wonder you don't like them.

I'm not advocating any of that, but you know that.

reply to post by seabag


You said the country used to run on Christian values. So now you're saying it never did? Or are you just going to pick and choose, only the positives?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

Submitting to Christ is the same thing as submitting to a tyrant.

It's submission.

Either way you're a slave, it's just a matter of whether or not you can see, touch, smell, hear or be slapped by the one you believe in.

~Tenth

edit on 7/23/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/23/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

Bigotry is different than religion.

But faith is never coming inside the heart of a selfish man.

I'm sorry to see this , but it is what you have brought to yourself.

reply to post by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

It doesn't matter because we are basically an atheist nation now.

So, it's very important that you get across the point that this is a "Christian Nation", yet "it doesn't matter" what that means? Ugh! And I thought I was going to get my answer...

We were founded as a Christian nation, a nation of Christians, but no longer.

Not everyone who founded this nation were Christians... There were some, but certainly not all. We could just as well call this country a Deist Nation, a Catholic Nation or an Atheist Nation. That's just as accurate as calling it a Christian Nation.

How about just agreeing that we have freedom of religion in this nation? The people here are FREE to make their own personal choices about religion in their lives.

Do you have a problem with freedom? Free thought? Personal choice? Diversity?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

I believe the reason our system worked so well in the past and is failing so miserable now is because of the decline in moral values and ethics in this country. What was once a ‘Christian Nation’ full of people who lived by a certain set of values has been replaced by the ‘anything goes’ crowd. The system is wholly inadequate to government people like this. Many American’s these days are more concerned with fame, fortune, power, self gratification, etc and have no moral compass to limit their gluttony, which IMO is why our nation is in great decline.

As far as a solution, we must all keep fighting for what we believe in. I think we will watch the ship sink until we hit a breaking point, at which time all bets are off…..I don’t know what the outcome will be. I do know that things can only continue to decline for so long…it will come to an end at some point.

Yes,

people had high moral values and ethics back in day... clearly my friend you are either blind or well misinformed, or i many cases both.

Please take a look at this video (only 18 minutes) and let me know what high moral values and ethics you are referring to.

Aaron Huey: America's native prisoners of war

Or you, similar to Jews extremist think that this land was given/promised to us by our Lord and/or God?

Let me know what you think....

Originally posted by SuperFrog


Yes,

people had high moral values and ethics back in day... clearly my friend you are either blind or well misinformed, or i many cases both.

People were just better at role playing and hiding stuff behind closed doors.

And we didn't hear about everything instantly - - like we do today via the Net.

Christian nation?
No

Nowhere in any of the USAs founding documents is Jesus Christ mentioned. Not once. I would think a Christian nation would rely heavily on the use of Christ.

Christians think we live in a Christian country because it suits their reality. The word God does not imply Christian, nor does it imply theocracy.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by DarthMuerte


Yes you must disagree but only because you are christian.
The whole reason they fled england was to escape religious prosecution. "land of the free" not "land of christ"
Christians generally refuse to respect other peoples views.
The founding fathers respected everyones views which is why its called "land of the free" feel free to believe anything but dont push beliefs onto others!

"Were We Founded As A Christian Nation?"

No.

This country was founded as a nation of individuals in which the rights of the individual is paramount to any religion and their so-called morals.

The founders knew that the success or failure of a representative republic hinged on the "morality" of it's people, but that morality was not directly tied to one's religious beliefs.

They also knew that attempting to force morality through religious indoctrination was tyrannical in nature and would never succeed in a nation of free individuals.

So to say that we were founded as a Christian nation, or claim that we are a Christian nation, only serves to compromise the rights of individuals and only leads to oppression and bigotry by those that feels their religion to be righteous in the eyes of their "god".

Originally posted by Wongbeedman

The whole reason they fled england was to escape religious prosecution. "land of the free" not "land of christ"

Actually they left because they couldn't force the government to make their belief the rule of the land.

Persecuted? They were extreme like the Taliban and thought everyone else should be too.

Southern Fundamental Baptists are descendants of the original Puritans.

Just because the Founding Fathers claimed to be Christians doesn't mean they really were.
Christians are supposed to be Christlike. Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies. I think this alone rules out the Founding Fathers as being real Christians. They weren't very loving to their British "enemies", or to the Native Americans.

(Luke 6:27) 27 “But I say to you who are listening, Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you,

(Matthew 5:43-44) 43 “you heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you;

CINO Christians in name only.

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

Submitting to Christ is the same thing as submitting to a tyrant.

It's submission.

Either way you're a slave, it's just a matter of whether or not you can see, touch, smell, hear or be slapped by the one you believe in.

~Tenth

edit on 7/23/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/23/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

Bigotry is different than religion.

But faith is never coming inside the heart of a selfish man.

I'm sorry to see this , but it is what you have brought to yourself.

What bigotry? Where does this bigotry exist in my posts? Is disagreement with your religion and beliefs considered bigotry?

Your Ad-Hominem attacks against me are cute, but unfortunetely do not work on this "selfish" man.

Do you know what is selfish? Believing that your ideals and opinions are above everybody else's because some book told you they were. Faith is about loving everyone, regardless of their flaws, because it's not about you, it's about God.

He is the judge, you are not. I may not be "religious" but I was raised a Roman Catholic and know quite well the effects of blind faith and religious bigotry against those who don't agree.

Considering your post was an attack against me, for disagreeing with your beliefs, you have provided the bigotry, not anybody else.

~Tenth