Bush Won!!!

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL
Bush was on something. Some kind of upper did any of you notice how he couldn't even sit down! Now what that something was I have no idea.

[edit on 9-10-2004 by DiRtYDeViL]

I'm no Bush fan, but that's not really proper to say and you can't prove it.

Originally posted by TomSawyer
Fox news just reported their poll results, they are as follows:

Approximately 179,000 votes
Kerry 62%
Bush 37%

Please keep in mind this is Fox, so if they say Kerry won. You can probably take it to the bank.

So, by this do you mean:
a) Fox News is a shill of GWB, so if they declare Kerry the winner, that means Bush lost so badly that they cannot spin it otherwise?
b) Fox News is very impartial and unbiased, so we can trust whatever they say?

Bush won this debate- bottom line. Allow me to explain why.

Bush was upfront about where he stood. He showed the true qualities of being a real leader and those are being honest and making the tough decisions. Bush had substance behind all of his answers he could back up his claims.

Kerry on the other hand tried to plow the middle of the road on every question or simply avoid the question altogether. Kerry offered absolotely no substance just more "I have a stinking plan"

As for the online polls they are a joke take a look at MSNBC's polls for question by question analysis of who did better. Notice that all the questions are spread 75% for Kerry and 25 % for Bush. Now don't attempt to tell me that this was an objective poll. The people who voted in this poll went in with their mind made up.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Also I don't expect the media to give Bush anything other than a draw because its common knowledge that the media is liberal and pro-Kerry.

[edit on 9-10-2004 by BlackJackal]

Fully fund the "No Child Left Behind" Act ... allow NATO to help (or completely take over) the training of Iraqis, something the group brought up as a possibility in a meeting a couple weeks ago, but was ignored by Bush ... implement a process to reduce Russia's loose material in four years rather than the 13 years it would take under Bush's plan ... work on a massive global counterproliferation effort which would include scrapping our own plans for bunker-busting nuclear bombs in an effort to hold ourselves to the same standards we ask of other countries ... increase active duty military spots by 40,000 so that we don't need to use a backdoor draft of National Guard reservists or a reinstated draft to fill our military needs ... remove catastrophic cases out of the healthcare system and pay for them via a federal fund so that they don't artifically impact healthcare premiums, which will allow more affordable personal plans, as well as allow small businesses to offer healthcare packages, which will increase the number of Americans covered ... raise the child-care credit by $1,000 for families to help them be able to take care of their kids ... have a $4,000 tuition tax credit that goes to parents -- and kids, if they're earning for themselves -- to be able to pay for college ... implement tax cuts for people making under $200,000, while repealing tax cuts back to the Clinton level for people making above that ... currently sponsoring a bill along with McCain that will eliminate tax loopholes for businesses that outsource jobs overseas ... create a manufacturing jobs credit and a new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more competitive here in America ... reevaluate the Patriot Act so that it cannot be used in a way to deprive American citizens of their most basic rights ... put the 100-200k frozen embryos already stored away in fertility clinics to use by using them for stem cell research

***********************************************************

Those look like some substantive, specific plans from to me. They're just some of the specifics Kerry laid out last night. I've asked Bush supporters to go thru and find me some example of concrete, future plans he has to make this country better. Needless to say, no one has taken me up on my offer. Since you clearly must have a different definition of what "substance" is Black Jackal, are you gonna take me up on my challenge?

Also add to that an extension of what Edwards brought up at his debate (a very good point as well), about how we could bring Iraqis out of the country to help safely and quickly train them. Rather than continue the course we are now, where would-be Iraqi servicemen are dying weekly (if not daily) due to the rampant car bombings.

W_Hamilton,

I accept your feeble challenge.

One simple question: How is Kerry going to fund all of those projects while at the same time preventing outsourcing and cutting the defeceit? Kerry never mentioned how he would fund this projects even when Bush called him on it. Therefore he can promise the moon but he still can't pay for it.

Here for some proof

Bush said

BUSH: Let me see where to start here.

First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work.

The reason I bring that up is because he's proposed $2.2 trillion in new spending, and he says he going to tax the rich to close the tax gap.
He can't. He's going to tax everybody here to fund his programs.
That's just reality.

And what are his health programs? First, he says he's for medical liability reform, particularly for OB/GYNs. There's a bill on the floor of the United States Senate that he could have showed up and voted for if he's so much for it.

Secondly, he says that medical liability costs only cause a 1 percent increase. That shows a lack of understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year.

And finally, he said he's going to have a novel health care plan. You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it.

It's the largest increase in federal government health care ever. And it fits with his philosophy. That's why I told you about the award he won from the National Journal.

That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't.

Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It would ruin the quality of health care in America.

Ok so you would think Kerry would refute Bush's claim that he would can't fund all his propositions but now Kerry just sidesteps the whole thing

Kerry:Yes, I think we should look at the punitive and we should have some limitations.

But look, what's really important, Charlie, is the president is just trying to scare everybody here with throwing labels around. I mean, �compassionate conservative,� what does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from health care, running up the biggest deficits in American history.

Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2.

I mean, seriously�labels don't mean anything. What means something is: Do you have a plan? And I want to talk about my plan some more�I hope we can.

Ok Kerry wants to talk about it later but never does and hasn't since.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Now we have some real scientific polls out on the debate. GALLUP NEWS SERVICE "Sen. John Kerry and President George W. Bush battled each other to a virtual tie in Friday night's presidential debate"

Debate viewers: 47% say Kerry did better, 45% say Bush. The margin of error leaves us with a Standoff. I have seen a few other scientific polls and they are all just about the same as the Gallup poll results.

This just goes to show you how much bunk those online polls are. Just about every scientific poll has a near tie and the online polls are overwhelmingly in Kerry's favor.

GALLUP

Hmmm, I like that, all online polls are wrong, except for the one that says Bush won. ????? Huh? How can they all be wrong except for the ONE that said Bush one? All but One says Kerry won, Gallup Poll says Kerry won, so I think Kerry won when all but one, an online poll which all the bushies say are evil, say that Kerry won. For those who think Bush won, I have this bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you are interested.....

Originally posted by James the Lesser
For those who think Bush won, I have this bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you are interested.....

Not sure anymore if you are posting in the right forum James, but I will take this one at face value. I have a brige for you to look at in SF. That being said, Kerry needed to put Bush away and he did not. Period. Funny how when the polls FAVOR Bush we get legions who go on and on about the inaccuracies of polls etc. When they show a tie or a Kerry win, they are treated like the holy grail. But wait thats a flip flop right

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Hmmm, I like that, all online polls are wrong, except for the one that says Bush won. ????? Huh? How can they all be wrong except for the ONE that said Bush one? All but One says Kerry won, Gallup Poll says Kerry won, so I think Kerry won when all but one, an online poll which all the bushies say are evil, say that Kerry won. For those who think Bush won, I have this bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you are interested.....

The Gallup poll didnt say Bush won it said it was a tie. The Kerry lead in that poll is within the margin of error. Its funny that the scientific polls say one thing and the non-scientific polls say another I wonder which its right.

If you believe non-scientific polls are more accurate then scienitfic polls I cant really help you.

Well, if the online polls are scewered because only dems vote, then doesn't that say something for the election?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Well, if the online polls are scewered because only dems vote, then doesn't that say something for the election?

Not entirely, look at page 2 of the on-line poll analyses thread.

Republicans over at FReep are freeping the vote FOR KERRY once they start to lose to make the on-line polls seem biased. :shk:

There's no way polls would go 90% Kerry without Republicans help. That's just common sense, and the proof is linked on that thread.

How embarrassing for them.

But yes the scientific polls of indy's were split with slight favor to Kerry within the MOE.

And new scientific polls of the VOTE are the same:


Really only two states even matter now. Which two depends on who you talk to, but sadly Republicans control the EC process in Ohio and Florida. That hurts. Alot of registrations aren't being processed for whatever reason. It's going to be very, very close though.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by antipigopolist]

antipigopolist, Hamilton gives you Kerry's plan and how he plans to do it, most of it, read up near top of page.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by antipigopolist]

It really doesen't matter who "wins" these debates.. After all, they are all staged ahead of time and questions/awnsers prepared.

If politicans were for real, they would prove to the people by holding real debates.. let them argue.. let them go at it. Let's see the wealth hoarding buffoons (Kerry-Bush) are all about. Hopefully both would beat one another up so bad they wouldn't make it to elections. Then maybe we could have the other voices of America speak up rather than the pathetic puppet parties, democrat and republican have the word all the time.

You want American style free speech.. bring all the candidates from all the parties into one room and let them go at it. Why keep the American population from hearing what the alternative parties are saying. It is totally unfair, especially if one doesen't pertain to any of the mainstream parties like myself.

The fact is, neither Bush nor Kerry has any plans to actually deal with real issues once in office. You think a multibillionare could care what the factory worker wants? Or what the man who lost his job to Red China or Mexico? The same man who was at one point making an honest living with a future for a pension and good healthcare benefits.. all taken and outsourced to places where there are no healthcare benefits.. and no pensions.

[edit on 10-10-2004 by RedOctober90]

Originally posted by antipigopolist

Be prepared. The true American Movement is near. "Ignorance is Bliss" is but a moment from extinction.

[edit on 10-10-2004 by antipigopolist]

I have heard the same thing over and over people complain about the Goverment and always talk about this "true American Movement" Buts its all just talk. They only people that have actually done something other then talk are dead.

If you think some movement can take on the Goverment Good luck

[edit on 10-10-2004 by ShadowXIX]

[edit on 20-10-2004 by antipigopolist]

Uh, don't they state that the debates are not scripted in the first minute? Of course, if you Bush, you don't need it scipted, just make sure the ear piece is on.

i say this on bit on letterman called "A Message From Kerry" and it said "I...have a...50 billion dollar....package." funnier than hell. of course it was highly edited but funnier than hell none the less!