Question: 27 layers of security clearance above Top Secret???

im bettin there are clearances that knowledge of said clearance is classified.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli
Some people apparently believe an X-files style cabal has established an illicit classification system for government-owned information and refuses to give the President access. But that would be a criminal conspiracy, not a system of security clearances or classifications. If this conspiracy exists, its actions should not be conflated with legitimate government policy.

There are those who would say the phrase "legitimate government policy" is an oxymoron. I seriously don't know anyone who believes that the government, or forces within it, actually play by the rules and adhere to legal policies. There's evidence of that every day even in the MSM. Whether it is the GSA wasting a quarter billion on office parties or the Secret Service spending their per diem on prostitutes, it looks as if flaunting 'legitimate government policy' is a team sport played with gusto. And those things aren't even serious.

I don't really know if the government really has Big Secrets. It may be that we are simply playing in a fantasy sandbox here. But if there really are Big Secrets, then there is no doubt that those holding them will keep them from the President and his cronies, whether doing so is legal or not.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
They cannot disobey a direct order from their commander in chief. Maybe they will try to refuse to answer, try to convince him he doesn't really want the information, whatever, but if he is a respected leader, and assertive in his demands, then I don't see how they could withhold it?

I don't remember the book or the person, but when Clinton first took office he brought in a well-respected aid and told him (paraphrased), "I want to know two things. Who killed JFK and what is the truth about UFOs." This fellow reported failure. I read a book review on amazon a few years ago. It is unlikely I'll be able to retrieve it. Perhaps someone here remembers.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
It seems to me if a president was a very strong and assertive leader, he could assemble a team of folks, and he could order them to debrief him on the information he sought ... then I don't see how they could withhold it?

They would have no legal basis for doing so. They could, as you said, attempt to dissuade the President, or perhaps delay. They could resign. Or they could commit a crime by disobeying the order.

reply to post by Crakeur

Thanks for that! He has zero authority long term for any significant clearence.

He only has a limited time or 2 in office until the next one come along

but the country goes on managed long-term by higher ups over many many many administrations and it they who keep the continuing secrets of the gov

reply to post by getreadyalready



The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.

The Tenth Amendment states the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the States by the Constitution are reserved to the States or the people.

Have any of you pondered what those powers not granted to the federal government are?

i didn't. until recently.

maybe those powers were the best ones of all the powers.

if this is the case in fact, have any of you thought that the reason that the President can't help you in any way is because those powers are none of his business?

of course not...you haven't thought that at all. most are to busy trying to find away around the inevitable...

either go to the source or be destroyed.

Any thing top secret may be on a need to know.

if the president finds out about a need to know project and ask about it they may or may not tell him if it exists unless he has a need to know or may only give him a limited briefing on the project.

Space aliens hidden at area 51 its unlikely the president would know till he had a need to know.
en.wikipedia.org...

Likely there are over 10.000 on going top secret projects at any one time and would be imposable for any one person to understand the president included.

reply to post by Swills


what do you think about the PDF someone posted? are there Majestic, luna , ultra etc levels?

I do believe the story that after each president is sworn in they give him a formal inbreif and tell him his job.I also think ultra tech is in private hands so no matter what your clearance you have to have a special purpose to be around anything really fantastic.

reply to post by CountDrac


Again, they're not really levels, not like you guys are thinking, as in level 1, 2, 3, and so on. They are code words that go next to Top Secret SCI to identify who they are and what need to know basis you have. I'm not familiar with them because if they are real, and there's a good chance they are, I had no need to know about the subjects they were covering because that was not my field of knowledge.

That PDF is pretty much nonsense imo, except the last 10 "levels" could very well be the code words I've been speaking of.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


exactly. who's bettter off knowing the innermost secrets of our government, the lifer who will be working for that government for 50 years, protecting our interests here, and abroad, or the smiling figurehead who's adept at kissing babies and shaking hands?

reply to post by CountDrac


I'd like to know what secrets the people 10+ levels above the president know?

reply to post by learnatic


they probably know how to avoid getting hit with the Thunderbolts raining down from the levels above them.

most people walk face first into them.

you should see the looks on their faces.

Originally posted by CountDrac
I heard a wild-eyed rumor from a source I'm highly skeptical of that there are "27 layers of security above the president". I was wondering if there was any truth to that. If anything, I'm sure it's an exaggeration.
1. Is there any clearance that President Obama does not have?
2. if so what are they and what are they called?
3. Couldn't president Obama ask about anything and if he does not get an answer he can just replace the head of the CIA or any department and put someone who would give him the answers?

edit on 19-7-2012 by CountDrac because: (no reason given)

Of course its true, what did you expect? They even put it on movies, remember a scene on Independence Day, where the president is shocked to learn about the secret lab and experiments conducted in it?

But its not exactly 27 stagering layers. They are more like branches of clearance. Some are paralel, some are above other. The idea was not to give a single person grand access to all the knowledge. The big picture is about being kept as obscure as possible. Most who has clearance still lives on a pragmatic scene. They are suppose to do their particular job without knowing about the whole operation.

Only the peak of the bloodlines knows about the main goal of the activity. Thus the secret government. Obama is just a mere marionete, dancing according the puppeters. There's where the strings are attached. He is a paid actor

The CIA is above the presidency, and even above the senate. Above the supreme court, too. At least in the past. Now they are just another front end of another secret agency you dont even have a clue they exist, or what they call it. And then yet another hidden agency behind or inside the former hidden agency

Plausible Deniability

If you don't know about it, you just...don't know about it...

reply to post by CountDrac


there are probably levels that don't have a name, where the people involved don't actually "exsist" in the system

I had a Top Secret/SCI when I was in due to my MOS. It's nothing special, clearances are compartmentalized/ need to know. I can't speculate on the 27 layers because I didn't rate anything above my clearance. My job was pretty boring, lots of time on Janes, making briefs & powerpoint presentations That's the life of a Cpl in the 2 Shop!

They're not very secret if we know about them.

27 levels? One thing I do know is some of the Space Shuttle crews were awarded medals by the Secret Service. The only way they can access them is to go to the Pentagon and down into a vault. There they can look at them and wear them, they cannot take a picture of the medal nor remove them from the vault but are free to go thru this procedure whenever they want to.

reply to post by Swills


Thank you alot for your input. It hold alot of value for seeing clearer.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by CountDrac

 

They aren't exactly layers. "Top Secret" is a generalized term, but having top secret clearance doesn't get you access to everything labelled top secret. Most documents are compartmentalized and there are seals within seals. You may have access to a file, but not everything in the file. You may have access to some databases and not others.

I'm sure there are at LEAST 27 different levels of compartmentalization, and even the President would need to have a justifiable "need to know" before he could access some of the information. Even Senators and Committee Members would need to justify their inquiries.

NOW, there are some people that have access to EVERYTHING, but their forays are tracked. Just because you can access something, doesn't mean you should, and if you happen across something you shouldn't have seen, you probably won't have your access long.

As some one who has held a top seceret/SCI clearance I can say your assessment it spot on.