On Lies of Aztec Human Sacrifice

reply to post by randyvs


Haha, that is not a movie about the Aztec, but about Mayans as far as I know.

And it's highly inaccurate! Because our dear friend Mel did not research the right documents but he researched colonial ones, what you see in Apocalypto is what you will see in mainstream history.

It's mainly inaccurate because Mayans have abandoned their cities quite long before Spaniards arrived. Even if few were active they werent active as this XD

I've been to the Mayan ruins to. They have very similar alters for sacrifice. Chakmaul (sp) and all that. What about the Mayan ball games where they would sacrifice the winners because getting sacrificed was such a great honor.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


I'm really really sick of repeating myself.

Those aren't altars for human sacrifice, but for other offerings. Now if you have a proof those were the altars for human sacrifice why don't you give it to us?

Ball game sacrificial players is another made up story. Spanish wanted to connect every aspect of Aztec life with human sacrifice, ballgame was just another victim to Spanish lies. Give me a Mayan or an Aztec pre colonial document that says sacrifice took place. You can't because there are no human sacrifice records in pre colonial period.

reply to post by geobro

Dont take this the wrong way but Obsidion knives are equal to and in most cases sharper than today s surgical steel scalples. With that in mind an average sized man can easily slice cleanly thru a mans breast bone and ripe (no delicacy here they had no intention of puting it back)in under three seconds . the heart will still be beating.

reply to post by Alexander2533


I'm think'in you need to see the movie. It's a masterpiece.

reply to post by rcowboy


It's funny how very few support the theory that Spanish lied.

It is also funny how all of you grab hold of that heart beating.

You will make me take an obsidian knife, and demonstrate on myself that it isn't so simple to take the heart out of the ribcage.

The problem is not with that, but with Spanish lying, and describing how precisely Aztec did that which was soooo impossible, to do it so precisely in such a short amount of time. Taking the heart out from under the ribcage would cause so much damage to the heart that it's muscles would stop contracting from damage, and you would just have a bunch of chopped meat in your hand.

You are right. I have read some of the accounts of the soldiers as well as some of the few codex available. They speak of a highly structured and civilized culture. No real theft. no real murder. People could not walk the streets a mess. Dress code. Well written and complete laws.. Better than what we have now. The market of the capital was many times larger than the biggest European one of the time.(Sevilla)

They didn't really have a security force but had almost no crime. They did not lie. They did not cheat. It was a capital crime to use fake currency(coco beans) mixed with other beans. Any form of currency. It was this way since any cheating was harshly punished. Especially for ritual games.

More than social code, it was honor less and they had a more complex system of honor than all of Asia.

The words used by the Spanish when they first saw the capital were

perfect, paradise, heaven, city of god


they left no doubt that these were a great people they admitted to ruining.


Things like "we taught them to lie cheat and steal. We were good at it. How else could we conquer them starving and on the verge of death as we were. They gave us all we asked. We terrified them when they refused and still they were kind to us and warm."

We tricked them to fight rivals created by scarcity of resources and escalated tensions caused by massive epidemics and high mortality rates. 90 % of their population had died off.


They were fooled and seduced into betrayal. The Aztecs waged wars yes but they were known for peace treaties, pacts of co-existence and respect.


Food was scarce in a receding jungle caused by over development of urban centers. They had all their engineers scribes and leadership die by what they thought were acts of an angry god. They became hyper religious and turned to extreme forms of worship.


They were no different than their European counterparts .

Dark ages much.

If Europe was remembered for the dungeons and chains instead of the arts and culture, we would consider that a misrepresentation of us as a people. The Aztecs face a similar situation now.

reply to post by randyvs


It's a terrible movie, that contributes to lies. I've seen it, it is utterly worthless.

Everything there is historically inaccurate.

However, we explained that. Now let's get back to Spanish lies.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


Congratulations! I have no more words to add, you've said it all.

However, human sacrifice was not present.

Actually, in every civilization were cases of human sacrifices, but they weren't tied to traditional religion and were an isolated incidents. But what Spanish did was talk about human sacrifice as it was a part of aztec traditional religion and everyday life.

Human sacrifice did not occur and it was an ultimate lie simply to justify the conquest of americas

Originally posted by Alexander2533
Taking the heart out from under the ribcage would cause so much damage to the heart that it's muscles would stop contracting from damage, and you would just have a bunch of chopped meat in your hand.

Reading your previous posts, I thought that this might be your hangup with the procedure.

Sorry, but no.

Even individual muscle cells taken from a live heart continue to beat - yes, individual cells.

A heart would beat for a few minutes, maybe a little less, even if ripped out of the chest with a woodchipper.

That said, of course the Spanish lied. Everybody lies.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Hehe, okay, listen, if you take an obsidian knife and rip the chords and ribs with it, severely damaging the heart, how would damaged muscles contract. That's just like someone cutting his tendons in his arm, he will no longer be able to move or contract the arm muscles. Individual cells "beating" doesn't make the heart beat, but muscles do.

but we are talking about human sacrifice here, the two of us can go to medical university together to study if you wish but let's stick to human sacrifice

reply to post by Alexander2533

Thank you, Alexander2533, for attempting to clarify this issue. Star and Flag for your thread. I too believe the human sacrifice reported by Cortez and his crew was simply a ploy to offset the rape and pillage of a Nation by the Conquistadors. If anything, Cortez probably ordered human sacrifice by his men to get the Aztecs to reveal the location of their Gold. I would bet the Aztecs placed a curse on the Gold, and that may be why much of it was lost in shipwrecks, and why the Gold obsession still runs in men's veins.

Originally posted by Alexander2533
reply to post by Harte

 

Hehe, okay, listen, if you take an obsidian knife and rip the chords and ribs with it, severely damaging the heart, how would damaged muscles contract. That's just like someone cutting his tendons in his arm, he will no longer be able to move or contract the arm muscles.

Hey, I didn't say it wasn't weird, right?

The muscle tissue in the heart is different from the arm tissue. The individual cells will beat on their own, as I said.

I didn't say the dern thing would work as an efficient pump!

If you shred a live heart, it still beats, each little piece.

Overall, a shredded live heart would look like a writhing bloody mass of muscle.
But it would be moving - on its own.

Regarding human sacrifice, your bias against Spain is not reason enough to dismiss actual evidence like blood stains inside the stylized frog urns wherein the beating hearts were placed.

I mean, it can't all be Spaniards.

I've read that the Aztecs considered human sacrifice necessary to ensure the continuance of time itself. Tell me why I shouldn't believe that - other than the fact that people lie, that is.

Harte

reply to post by Alexander2533


Well excuse me for think'in. Perhaps you can explain to me then, why you didn't realize it was about the Aztecs ?
As evidenced by the Spaniards arriving at the end. May be because you were so disgusted by it's authenticity you failed to watch the whole thing. Which for me points immediately and directly to you having a biased and preconceived notion of your own, that you are for some reason bent on sensationalizing. How bout that ? You are simply sputtering Hollywood Jewish propaganda against the film at the time. I hope I don't have to give you the evidence of that too. But I will if I have too.

The film is a one of kind and I find it highly accurate partner.

Harte, Spaniard Diaz said the whole heart beated like a live heart, not shreads. That's why I oppose it, he was representing it as a pump!



autowrench, thank you for your support.

reply to post by randyvs


Give me all ya GOT! XD


here en.wikipedia.org...

but again, this is off topic, we are not talking about a move, but should rather talk about what really happened

I will have this thread closed if you guys keep talking about cardiology and movie industry. Let's get back to the topic.


Talk about what I've wrote in the thread, discuss it, so we can analyze it on the end

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Alexander2533

 

Thank you, Alexander2533, for attempting to clarify this issue. Star and Flag for your thread. I too believe the human sacrifice reported by Cortez and his crew was simply a ploy to offset the rape and pillage of a Nation by the Conquistadors. If anything, Cortez probably ordered human sacrifice by his men to get the Aztecs to reveal the location of their Gold. I would bet the Aztecs placed a curse on the Gold, and that may be why much of it was lost in shipwrecks, and why the Gold obsession still runs in men's veins.

Don't get me wrong here in this thread Wrench K? I respect your extensive knowledge of history even tho we never see I to I. But can you tell me why the Spaniards would even need a ploy ? OP seems a bit unmoved at the moment. Shall I say ?

Your theory on the curse I find very interesting.

reply to post by Alexander2533


I don't believe I'm off topic. But as you're the author of this thread, I'll respect that.

reply to post by randyvs


We are going slightly off topic by needlessly discussing cardiology and movie industry, that kind of discussion does not contribute to the topic. Thus we need to stick to this theory about Spanish lying about human sacrifice. I expect that to be respected.

reply to post by Vitruvian


Thank you. We are glad to have you here in the discussion.