George Takei's blog on the BSA reaffirmation of the ban on LGBT Scouts & Leaders

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by truthinfact

Also Christian Voice, you do not represent the views of all Christians. Not at all.

edit on 7/23/2012 by truthinfact because: (no reason given)

Yep - I know plenty of TRUE Christians who don't feel the way Christian Voice feels at all. I'm starting to suspect that Christian Voice is part of Westboro Church.

I always say: "There are those who truly walk in His footsteps".

Unfortunately - - they are few and far between.

Originally posted by truthinfact
I just wanna say I find it funny that as soon as a mod comes they are all afraid to post lol

but I said it before, the amount of Bigotry in this Thread, is TOO DAMN HIGH.


Also Christian Voice, you do not represent the views of all Christians. Not at all.

edit on 7/23/2012 by truthinfact because: (no reason given)

Nah, it's more "respect" than "fear" with DontTreadOnMe....an absolutely exceptional moderator
ToTheTenth and Seagull finish off my top 3

I agree with you completely. The people who speak the loudest and most often are usually the people who represent Chrisitianity the least. It's up to the rest of us to show that those people are NOT what Christians are.

A faithful, monogamous homosexual relationship is just as fulfilling and righteous as a faithful, monogamous heterosexual relationship. Jumping from bed to bed and numerous one-night stands isn't right regardless of what gender is involved and it's never right to have sex with a non-consenting adult or any child as they are not old enough to give consent.

From my own "opinion" on it, many of the fundamentalist evangelicals just don't have a lot going for them as far as ability or knowledge and they find it builds their ego by putting someone else down. All it really does is build tension, hatred and turn people AWAY from God instead of to him. They are doing the opposite of what Christians are called to do and will answer for that to God. There are going to be a lot of very upset, very disappointed folks on Judgement Day. ... and others who finally find peace from the torture they've endured in this life brought on by the very people who CLAIMED to be following God.

reply to post by Annee


Now that you mention it, my Great Uncle, who was a Mormon Bishop was also a scout master for years and years and years. He was extremely involved in it and it came second only to his church activities. He was also extremely racist but that had more to do with his age (born in 1910) and rearing than anything else... but I still loved him very much, even with the faults he had...closest thing to a grandfather than I had due to the deaths of my actual grandfathers before my birth. Much of the racism was overcome when one of this granddaughters married a man from Mexico. Racism is often defeated by the children and grandchildren of those who were racist...thank goodness... as is homophobia.... most of the time, but not always

reply to post by kaylaluv


No you do not. How are they "true Christians" and not believe what the Bible says? The Bible is the Word of God and it is pennacle to the Christian Faith. How can someone claim to be a Christian but completely disagree with the Bible? If you are going to choose homosexuality then choose it, if you wish to choose Christ then choose him but do not pervert the Bible and Christian faith and try and merge your perverseness with the Bible and completely rewrite Christianity to suit your unnatural desires and lifestyle.
See, this is where my frustration starts. If you choose homosexuality then that is your business. However, keep it out of my Church and keep it out of my Boy Scouts, and keep it out of my life. I was at the Mall a few months ago with my then 4 year old son. Two men began tongue kissing each other in the middle of the mall and were rubbing each other's privates. I lost it on them. I demanded they stop and explained that I am a married man (to a woman) and my wife and I do not behave like that in public. My son did not need to see such behavior. Why go out and advertise and then get pissed when the public does not like what they see? It's as though they wanted to start something with anyone. The same thing applies to the BSA issue. Why else would a homosexual desire to join a group that he knows does not want him? To start trouble. To get attention.

reply to post by Annee


I do not walk in his footsteps. I sin and I am not worthy of his ritcheousness. However I do try and live as he commanded. He commanded I Love my neighbor. He never said to like my neighbor or accept their sins. He said that as a Christian that I am the salt of the Earth. It is my duty to inform of his word. What you call judging I call discernment.
Let me make this point:
I posted before the definition of perversion, here it is again,,,
Perversion is a concept describing those types of human behavior that deviate from what is considered to be orthodox or normal. Although it can refer to varying forms of deviation, it is most often used to describe sexual behaviors that are seen by an individual as abnormal, repulsive or obsessive. Perversion differs from deviant behavior, since the latter refers to a recognized violation of social rules or norms
I use this word to describe homosexuality as abnormal, outside the norm.
I do not hate anyone. I have stated before that I can Love you and despise your sin. I do not walk up to homosexuals on the street and condemn them to hell. The Mall incident was way over the top. I do sin, the thing is I know when I sin and I admit it and try and change. I am not perfect and do not claim to be. I am a Christian. I do not go door to door recruiting, I probably should. However I do speak up on issues like this.

reply to post by Christian Voice


No, Christianity is based on Jesus Christ, not the Bible. The Bible contains stories of Jesus Christ but it's not breathed from the mouth of God or penned by God's hand. If it were, there wouldn't be so many contradictions in it now would there?
Men have taken scripture over the past 2000 years when they first compiled it into on "book" and they have translated it, altered it, retranslated it, translated it from translations, altered it some more and interpret it based on their "guesses" of what it means even though they've had zero training in it and very poor reading comprehension skills.
The Bible is NOT the Word of God, it's a book with the writings pertaining to the belief in God, not an instructuion book written by God himself. It is not to be taken verbatem or you quickly shoot yourself in the foot because contradictions abound. These fundamentalist evangelicals want to pick and choose what is word for word and what isn't and that's not the way it works. Unless it's written in red letters, it didn't come from the mouth of Christ, it came from the mind of the author of that book.
Seriously, if you are going to claim to profess a belief, learn about the belief, research it, find out as much as you possibly can about it oherwise you are doing it an injustice.

By what measure you judge, surely you will be judged. Don't act all surprised when the time comes.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


OK, here are the red letters again for you
Mark 10:6-9
New International Version (NIV)

6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Jesus said it right there in red letters just for you. Jesus did not say be united with his life partner did he? No, he said wife.
You can try and circumvent the system all you like but in the end Jesus said it just for you right there.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

OK, here are the red letters again for you
Mark 10:6-9
New International Version (NIV)

6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Jesus said it right there in red letters just for you. Jesus did not say be united with his life partner did he? No, he said wife.
You can try and circumvent the system all you like but in the end Jesus said it just for you right there.

OK, so he said a man and a woman could come together, but he said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about no other combinations were possible. Do you not understand that? Just because it's NOT there doesn't make it wrong.

Christ said absolutely NOTHING about the internet, by your logic, you are committing an abomination by being on it. There was absolutely NOTHING written about cell phones, by using the cell phone, by your logic, you are comitting an abomination.
Do you not realize this???? Just because something is mentioned does NOT mean that it's the only possible thing that can exist.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by Annee

 

I do not walk in his footsteps. I sin and I am not worthy of his ritcheousness.

Your choice.

Good luck with that negative energy.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


What are you talking about? You have crossed over to the other side of sanity. Noone said anything like that. Why would my logic dictate that it is wrong to surf the net or talk on a cell phone? You totally lost me on this one Jesus' standards he set would apply to the internet and cell phones, and anything else today. Don't be ridiculous.
Let me ask you this then since we are nitpicking ridiculousness,,,,,, Jesus never ever said you can't sleep with a 6 year old girl did he? Did those words come out of his mouth? Did he ever say that you cannot have sex with a dog? No he did not. However the Bible does address these things. Have some common sense.
I'm serious now. By your logic, should a man be free to have sex with a 13 year old girl or a pony? The Bible never ever sets an age limit for a girl to be with a man. Jesus never ever sets an age limit. By the way, pedophiles and zoophiles both claim to have been born that way too. We are talking about the attraction, not the act. Jesus never said that it is wrong to have sex with a corpse. By your logic it should be perfectly fine then.
Let's get serious now.

I'm very sorry.This entire post was uncalled for on my part.

reply to post by Annee


I was merely pointing out that I am a sinner and not worthy of his gift but I accept it and do not take it for granted. Just letting you know that I do not view myself as sinless.

reply to post by Christian Voice


Society's laws dictate our actions, not biblical laws. Mary was only 12 years old when she gave birth to Christ and Joseph was around 30 .... they married. That would not be allowed today and it shouldn't be. Just because something is in the story book you read doesn't make it right.
Of course you didn't follow the logic, it goes against what you want it to say, therefore you pretend you don't understand it. That's in your little training manual.

Here, address all these blatant contradictions, then get back to us. There are around 1800, so I'll just give you a few to work on


Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


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How many stalls and horsemen?
1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.


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Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."


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Human vs. ghostly impregnation
ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.


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The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


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Rabbits do not chew their cud
LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

"Gerah," the term which appears in the MT means (chewed) cud, and also perhaps grain, or berry (also a 20th of a sheckel, but I think that we can agree that that is irrelevant here). It does *not* mean dung, and there is a perfectly adequate Hebrew word for that, which could have been used. Furthermore, the phrase translated "chew the cud" in the KJV is more exactly "bring up the cud." Rabbits do not bring up anything; they let it go all the way through, then eat it again. The description given in Leviticus is inaccurate, and that's that. Rabbits do eat their own dung; they do not bring anything up and chew on it.

Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
MAR 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

JOH 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;

(various traipsings)


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How many apostles were in office between the resurrection and ascension?
1 Corinthians 15:5 (12)
MAT 27:3-5 (minus one from 12)
ACT 1:9-26 (Mathias not elected until after resurrection)

MAT 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

**I'm only on Pg 3 so please be patient. I've been working lots. I've got some responses to some of the things said.**

Christian Voice: Before I start commenting on the thing you have said, I must point out how you are a typical hypocritcal Christian. What gives you the right to judge other people? Does God not say that he is the only one to judge people? I bet there are a lot of sins you comit because you don't follow the bible to the T. I bet you would even be stonned to death because you work on Sunday. God created Homosexuals just like he created different Ethnicities. Your religion has been corrupted and the Bible has been translated so many times, when they aren't sure on the exact translation they give their best guess. Homosexuality being a sin got added in either through mistranslation or because someone knew that having it in there would cause a divide amongst the people and a hate for a small minority group.

•Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19).

I don't even know where you get your facts from but they are most likely wrong. How was this information collected? Who was the collector of the information? How many cases did they look at?

•Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality" (22).

Goes to show what you actually know about homosexuality compares to the lies and slander you have been taught. I have met a lot of homosexuals and none of them are pedohphiles. You are just being ingnorant and silly.

•Because homosexuals can't reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their homosexual parades. A group called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other homosexuals aren't as overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get into positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian Avengers web page, and DC Lesbian Avengers Press Release, where they threaten to recruit little boys and girls. Also, see AFA Action Alert.

I don't even know where to start with this retarded statement. Extremists are every where and must be ingored because they do not repersent the rest of the group. The same is with Christianity. There are extremists in your religion who have killed millions in the name of God since the birth of the religion. Christians have been "recruiting" other members since their foundation. The only difference between Homosexulaity and Christianity is that one is a choice, Christianity, while Homoseuxality is how God created you.

We cant possibly weed out the perverts until they are caught. Homosexuals can be weeded out by self identification immediately.

Again, homosexuality does not mean you are a pedophile! Yes you can weed out the perverts before they are caught. There are many organizations out there that work to catch pedophiles.

Annee:

Pedophile is its own Orientation - - it is neither heterosexual or homosexual.

I know, I felt I had to word it that way so that they would understand sexual preference doesn't matter, a pedophile is a pedophile and has nothing to do with which gender you prefer.

Jonnywhite:

How do you minimize the chances that the scout leader will molest your son?

Through criminal record checks and looking into their background can help prevent a lot of it.

EvilSadamClone:

Because I think it's wrong to force people to accept you, and that's what homosexuals want, is to force people to accept them. The article in the OP is proof of that, and there's numerous others like that.

The only thing that we want forced to be accepted is that LGBT are HUMANS just like heterosexuals and deserve the same rights as everyone else because they are a Human as well.
Homosexuals just wanted to be treated like every other human being, there shouldn't be different laws and organizations of BSA for homosexuals only because we are humans too. We get treated like animals, beat, bullied, and killed because we are "different" when we are Humans just like you.

I guess some people just have more rights than others.

You are right, heterosexual have more rights then Homosexuals.

Christian Voice:

No, equality must not be forced. A disability cannot be helped, nor can the color of your skin, but the choice of homosexuality can. When someone chooses to live that lifestyle how can they be so bold as to get upset when the world does not like it. The next thing I guess we will see is homosexuals suing people for looking at them with a disgusted look. I dare that one to happen.

Homosexuality is not a choice!! God created homosexuals just like he created heterosexuals. To deny a homosexual their right to live becaue you dislike it is the same as denying someone something because of their color of their skin.

Right because heterosexual people don't try to sue people over retarded issues all the time. McDonalds made me fat, I'm going to sue you. *roll eyes*

Christian Voice:

Whatever, an awfully vain assumption on your part to say you are always right. According to God and his Bible homosexuals cannot possibly experience the love of God until they renounce their sin (homosexuality) and walk away from it. God and the Bible say homosexuality is an abomination. How are homosexuals just going to come into the Christian faith and try and rewrite the Bible to suit them?

According to your corrupted Religion and a Bible full of lies, right like we are to believe that. I'm sorry but God made homosexuals just like he made people of other ethnicity. The Bible has been translated how many times? Someone slipped into the bible that homosexuality is a sin because it's another way to divide the people and cause hate for a minority group.
Therefor if anything homosexuals want the Bible to be the truth, not full of it's lies & corruption.

No it is not how God made them. Why would he call them abominations if he made them? People are not sexual beings at all until puberty. The weirdos that swear they had actual sexual attractions as a young child are full of it. Puberty is when the sexual hormones kick in and sexual attraction starts. I'm not talking about finding a boy or girl cute either, I'm talking full blown sexual attraction. Given this, there are quite a few years for the person to develop their attractions.

God does not call the homosexuals he created abominations, man called them abominations. Your ignorance on homosexuality is so vast. You really need to educate yourself on the real world and not what the corrupted Christian Church has taught you.
There are children at young ages who know they are gay. There are children at young ages who know they are born into the wrong body. It's not just when you hit puberty. I wasn't even fully aware that I was bi sexual until I was in grade 12. Then I had a better understanding of who I am.

When I told my Mom I was bi sexual she said to me "I know. It's out of all my children I knew you were gay" I asked her what she meant and she just said that there was something about me when I was young that she recognized as a form of homosexuality.


EvilSadamClone:

In truth homosexuality can not be justified, any attempt to do so is just sophistry and dishonesty.

It is not natural, it is not normal. To claim so is a lie.

God created homosexuals. It is natural and normal because it does happen in nature. Just because you don't know something doesn't make it a lie.

reply to post by knoledgeispower


Oh WHATEVA!!! Your entire post is not worth even commenting on. You have serious issues as do quite a few others on here. Say what you guys will but in the end you are all just little children making excuses for daddy as to why you are doing wrong. First you claim you were born that way and when that doesn't work you claim Christianity is fine with it and when that doesn't work you declare God as non existant. Whatever, I am through debating with Godless heathans that insist on justifying their sins and perverse lifestyles and are hell bent on forcing it onto everyone on the planet like the dang plague.
GOD Almighty did not create people to be homosexual. It is and always will be a choice. Did he create pedophiles that way? did he create zoophiles that way? Did he create necrophiliacs that way? According to you he did.
I'm done, Peace Out

Originally posted by knoledgeispower

I don't even know where you get your facts from but they are most likely wrong. How was this information collected? Who was the collector of the information? How many cases did they look at?

They are wrong. Not to mention 20 years old.

They come from an extremist right wing fundamental Christian minister.

Those who are mind controlled by an ideology - - - - do not want truth or facts.

It doesn't matter what the ideology is. Could be Marxism. Same thing.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

What are you talking about? You have crossed over to the other side of sanity. Noone said anything like that. Why would my logic dictate that it is wrong to surf the net or talk on a cell phone? You totally lost me on this one Jesus' standards he set would apply to the internet and cell phones, and anything else today. Don't be ridiculous.
Let me ask you this then since we are nitpicking ridiculousness,,,,,, Jesus never ever said you can't sleep with a 6 year old girl did he? Did those words come out of his mouth? Did he ever say that you cannot have sex with a dog? No he did not. However the Bible does address these things. Have some common sense.
I'm serious now. By your logic, should a man be free to have sex with a 13 year old girl or a pony? The Bible never ever sets an age limit for a girl to be with a man. Jesus never ever sets an age limit. By the way, pedophiles and zoophiles both claim to have been born that way too. We are talking about the attraction, not the act. Jesus never said that it is wrong to have sex with a corpse. By your logic it should be perfectly fine then.
Let's get serious now.

Jesus DID say, Do unto others as you would have done to you, which is the most important thing he said, in my opinion. It is also something that is repeated in almost all religions. If one was a 6-year-old girl, they wouldn't want to be raped by an adult, so an adult shouldn't rape a 6-year-old girl. If one was a homosexual, they wouldn't want to be treated as if they weren't as good as everyone else, so others shouldn't treat homosexuals that way.

The Golden Rule is all we need to live by - it doesn't matter if you are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, agnostic or atheist. No other law or religion is needed to live in peace, love and harmony - if only we would all follow it.

So many people just don't understand that the bible as they know it isn't correct. The bible was NOT written in English and did not come from the mouth of God. It was written in Greek, Latin, Hebrew... ancient languages, not English. We have translations of translations of translations, not even direct translations from the original language, yet so many of the under-educated fundamentalist evangelicals (like the BoyScout Leaders) have no clue as to the history of their own faith.

They have no idea where the Bible came from, they have no idea that it's a conglomeration of various "books" written by many, many different authors. They have no idea that a council of men came together and decided which writings to put in and which writings to leave out. They have no idea that there are many writings out there that were from the exact same authors as books that are included that were excluded. This was a choice made by a group of men, not a choice made by God.

The fundamentalist evangelicals also hate the Catholics and don't realize the simple, straightforward fact that they came directly from the Catholics. They have no idea where Protestantism came from. They actually think there were Jews and Catholics before Christ even came, they don't realize that the Catholics were the FIRST group of "Christians" that were formed by the apostles after Christ's death. They honestly have no clue to the history or formation of the beliefs they adamantly claim to profess.

As far as homosexuality supposedly being a "sin", it wasn't even an issue until around 400 years ago. Of course they'll shout and scream about certain bible verses, but those verses were translated to make them sound the way the translators wanted them to sound. If they look at the original language, they'd see that... but most of them don't even read the english version, they just listen to what their preacher tells them.

European Christians got the general idea that it was a sin from the Moors who occupied Spain and Portugal. (Islam declared homosexuality a sin around 600 AD, and the Quran was the first holy book to try to connect Sodom with homosexuality.) The idea caught on in western Europe around the 13th century, and over the next few hundred years spread to the east. By the time the Bible was translated into the vernacular languages (about 400 years ago), most of Europe had already decided that homosexuality was a sin, and had bought the idea that Sodom was destroyed because of it. When the translations were done, certain ideas were incorporated into them. For example, The King James Version added the word sodomite to the Bible in two places, despite the fact that it isn't found in the original languages. They also deliberately changed two verses in Leviticus to make it appear that the Law of Moses had condemned male homosexuality. They altered verses in 1 Samuel to hide same-sex marriage. In the New Testament, they ambiguously translated verses in 1 Corinthians, 1 Timothy and Jude.

But that was minor compared to what newer translations have done. They have deliberately altered the account of the destruction of Sodom to make it agree with the Quran, and further twisted the verses in 1 Cor. and 1 Tim., even to the point of adding the word homosexual... a word that did not exist in ancient Greek, and thus cannot appear in the Bible.

Saddest of all is that homophobic people accept even these newer "translations" without question. The Hebrew and Greek texts still exist, and it is fairly simple to confirm that the English translations are dead wrong on this. But most refuse to even consider the possibility. I guess that it's true that it's always been easier to believe a lie than to accept the truth.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
They have no idea that there are many writings out there that were from the exact same authors as books that are included that were excluded.

Plus - the first translations were done by novice Monk scribes (most people were illiterate). If your whole life is about God - - you are going to see God in everything. If actual words were "a metallic globe descended from the sky" - - - you're gonna get "angels with golden wings descended from the Heavens". There is extreme God bias in those translations.