What's wrong with ATS of late?

reply to post by ValentineWiggin

Provide sufficient evidence, proof, information, and sources if necessary. Compile a thoughtful, intelligent thread. There are some highly speculative threads that were incredibly trashed which ended up as main topics on ATS live. ATS to me is a respectable and challenging forum and that is why I come back. I would rather have a forum that challenges the more speculative ideas and conspiracy's than a forum that blindly eats up everything anyone said.

Like a story about a helicopter attack?

reply to post by Aquarius2150


That's like me......I've been coming to this site for years but just joined not to long ago.

One thing I've noticed is who's source is better. It's almost turned into a battle of "sources".

I have scoured the web before to make sure the facts are legit and track different links to articles only to be told "no good"..... here's the REAL source.

Of course, I guess it depends on which side of the fence you're sitting on too.

This IS a conspiracy site so not always does one need to provide "proof"......

That's the whole point of a Conspiracy.....the not knowing. A Conspiracy is a secret, so there is no proof.

And you sure as hell can't trust TPTB for the truth nor the MSM.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
God forbid people ask for proof.

"Proof" is good for certain topics......

Any thing to do with Politics, weather, war, social unrest, climate change, etc.....yes, proof is needed when stating the facts. Provide links, news sources, some thing to back up what is being said.

However, Conspiracies, which ATS happens to be a Conspiracy site, one can not provide said "proof' due to the fact that a true conspiracy is a secret, hence no proof.

What is Conspiracy? A conspiracy is defined as a secret plan being made, or something being kept as a secret. For example, many people think the government has a conspiracy concerning aliens.

So, being as it's a SECRET, there is no proof. Whether it's about the assassination of JFK, Roswell, 9/11, etc., there will never be any proof.

con·spir·a·cy [kuhn-spir-uh-see] plural con·spir·a·cies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law . an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act. 5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

So when it comes to a good conspiracy, don't expect proof.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
Something I've noticed about ATS of late, your a nut case if you:

Believe you have seen a UFO or E.T.
Believe in a God and are religious.
Believe in the Illuminati or the creation of a New World Order.
Believe or have seen a spirit or ghost.
Believe that the Apollo 11 moon mission was staged.
Believe B.O's birth certificate is not authentic.
Believe certain diseases such as H.I.V and H1N1 for example, are man made.
Believe that secret societies are running/ruining the world.
Believe that 9/11 was an inside Job and that the media are fear mongering and creating hate towards the middle east.

And the list goes on and on, what's the point of a conspiracy website if you're discriminated against every time you think outside the box?. One of the most common 'comebacks' I've come across is.."Where is your proof?", this type of behavior has got to stop. ATS is becoming a mad house!!

Don't you understand? This web site has been completely infiltrated by agent provocateurs and shills. They are working around the clock to stir up trouble, get inside your head, plant seeds of doubt, and second guess yourself. They are here doing the job that they were hired to do. Arguing with them won't get you anywhere. These people are sitting at a desk in a room, where they have been instructed on which web sites to work on for the day/night. Pure and simple. They go to a ton of other blogs, pages, forums and do the same thing, day in and day out. So what to do about this? Ignore them and don't engage with them. Don't even bother wasting your energy. I've spotted about 15 of them here in the past month alone. It's not hard to spot them, because they are terrible at hiding who they really are.

You mentioned the old members, that were smart have vanished... I had a thought about that for sometime now. I feel as iff ats sometimes took the good members, who contributed the good threads, and created a more basement discussion area .. Cause you are right. They had to have gone somewhere.. And every once in a while youll see a thread with old members in it... And it nevr appeared on new topics page.. I think they like this wastefull bickering.. Good for traffic.. But the real discussions take place else where

Hi, I'm posting a reply to say that I agree with your OP but also agree with the mod's comment too. I have visited this site for years, using it to glean information & to try and suss out whether this site would be a good place to share something that happened to me in 2009, I uploaded a video & some other members caught images off the video, filtered them and helped me make a decision on what it was I encountered (this thread is in my signature if you have the time and are interested to take a look)

A lot of members who took time in creating interesting, informative & sometimes speculative threads that must have taken a lot of time and research to present just seem not to bother any more. It's such a shame but I don't think there is an easy answer to things...

As other posters have stated ignore the trolls, keep your calm, and remember that everyone is allowed an opinion, of course not all people agree with opinions but we live in a diverse world. If somebody is being genuinely hateful, racist, fowl mouthed or constantly annoying then report them to the staff.

Because there is a global awakening happening (I've no pics or proof sorry) our site has found itself being joined by many who are just starting to open their eyes, some maybe young, some uneducated, some full of hatred ect but still it is best to welcome all and see if it is possible to help them on their quest for truth and enlightenment.

As for the government shrills, agents, debunkers ad infinitum then what else can I say other than it wouldn't be a conspiracy website without those sorts too, as another poster posted it is quite easy to spot these & to make a mental note on who they are and what their motives are, when you find one or many of these just put them in the basement of your mind mansion, along with all that other junk we store in our basements.

S&F to your thread...yes there have been threads like this before but this is your own personal opinion and one that I was lucky enough to share in by logging on for an hour.

All the best, may peace and good vibes be with you.

geeza

reply to post by DeadSnow

way way back pre internet the only information we had on all these subjects was via magazines and books. I know I have gazilions of them. Mysterious of the Unexplained etc. The amount of information we had was quite limited and very very much the opinion of the few authors of those publications.

Then along comes the internet. Lots of sites start up, quite a few being a reproduction of the same ideas in those books and magazines. ATS starts up.

Then after several more years the amount of information on the internet quite literally expands a thousand probably even a million fold. All of sudden there is vast quantities of information that we can all cross reference and correlate with the opinions that were in those original publications.

Suprise suprise some of us noticed the utter nonsense that was being printed. In addition we are able to match the behaviours from one conspiracy to another. So for example if we have tons of info proving the loch ness monster is a hoax and tons of people illogically ignoring the tons of facts and those same people resorting to certain language, name calling etc etc we have a pattern of "denial behaviour". What we can then do with a conspiracy , without any investigative work, is see how the supporters are behaving and immediately determine whether the conspiracy is backed by those in denial or those seeking answers. The vast majority are people in denial.

reply to post by snarky412

However, Conspiracies, which ATS happens to be a Conspiracy site, one can not provide said "proof' due to the fact that a true conspiracy is a secret, hence no proof.

What is Conspiracy? A conspiracy is defined as a secret plan being made, or something being kept as a secret. For example, many people think the government has a conspiracy concerning aliens.

So, being as it's a SECRET, there is no proof. Whether it's about the assassination of JFK, Roswell, 9/11, etc., there will never be any proof.

This is simply not true.

We have defined conspiracy and have unveiled conspiracies in the past, thus proof for conspiracies can exist

However, when there is a significant lack of evidence to support something, it is a good indicator of it not being valid. So why use this argument as a justification for believing in conspiracy theories that have no proof of actually existing/occurring?

It's not just ATS. It's like this on a lot of forums anymore. He who trolls last, trolls best.

And while I understand the importance of proof, I think some people tend to forget that the topics covered here on ATS can be highly speculative and, by nature, lack concrete proof. Not every thread started is started to prove something. The purpose of a lot of threads is to generate discussion and ideas in order to better understand a certain topic. It's like a group brainstorming session, or a group collaboration.

It's those types of threads that I'm seeing less of. And I think that may be what's keeping a lot of the ATS veterans away.

There are subjects which DO require proof or at least something pointing to proof or evidence of the basis for your belief... but I miss times of exploring abstract ideas and things along those lines that used to happen here a long time ago. People have become very rigid and not exploratory in thought or ideas these days. Brainstorming and free thought seem to be looked down upon and ridiculed by so many now. Im not talking about the mothership is over dallas threads.. I mean real exploratory conversations. People will come in and be rude, smartasses, or not comprehend what the conversation is about and make weird assumptions about the subject AND the posters.. and the turd in the punchbowl... well thats a perfect description.

Its cyclic of course with the elections, summer, and newbies.. but there is a change in the posters themselves I think. Ive been here since 2007 actually and I keep in touch with a few older members in email or elsewhere.. and get my exploratory thought fix, but its a shame it cant be done here anymore because of the advantage of having so many others participating.

Originally posted by DarthChrisious
It's not just ATS. It's like this on a lot of forums anymore. He who trolls last, trolls best.

And while I understand the importance of proof, I think some people tend to forget that the topics covered here on ATS can be highly speculative and, by nature, lack concrete proof. Not every thread started is started to prove something. The purpose of a lot of threads is to generate discussion and ideas in order to better understand a certain topic. It's like a group brainstorming session, or a group collaboration.

It's those types of threads that I'm seeing less of. And I think that may be what's keeping a lot of the ATS veterans away.

Exactly, there's a polite manner to express ones views on a subject and then there's the one liner..."Where's your proof". I agree that ATS at one point in time served as a think tank.

This website began to break when the owner(s) visited Washington. You don't get invited to Washington to have tea and scoan's. Unless it's a racial issue and Obama want's to stir the *hit. Then when I see Obama ads plastered all over the front page, it kind of makes you go "hmm". You can argue that they have no control over the ads that show up. Okay, why don't I see any for penis enlargement pills? Or porn websites? Case closed. It's not an argument. They do have have control and if they say they don't, they are liars and deniers like many of the "contributors".

I've seen posts here that lead me to believe there are either extremely stupid people or blatant trolls and shills. There was a thread with a video of chemtrails coming out of aircraft, being turned off and on and NOT coming from the engines. This idiot's reply was, "it's contrails and if it's not, it's photoshopped", like you can "photoshop" a video.

This type of person wouldn't accept evidence if it slapped him along side his mongoloid skull. This website should be for debate and presenting evidence; idiot's like this have no evidence, they show up, demonstrate their ignorance and move on. Of course, no evidence of their own. And the topics have gotten steadily lamer and less intriguing. I'm thinking folks are moving on to green pastures. There are more non-conspiracy people here than there are conspiracy people. It looks like that little trip to Washington paid off.

The constant demand for “proof” of a fact can be wrong and intentionally misleading. Especially when powerful Governments strive to cover up certain “undesired” issues, this entails that most or all pieces of evidence get purposefully destroyed, deleted, hidden away. Then OF COURSE finding and presenting proof of such facts covered up by Governments may become IMPOSSIBLE. Hence the argument that there is no proof of a fact can NEVER be of decisive importance per se, especially not when discussing delicate politically “undesired” and possibly covered up secretive issues.

In this situation it is important to not give up and base a discussion and the search for truth on logic and sound thinking. Now what Government and secret societies “helpers” do is to destroy such discussions and attack logical insights by constantly interfering and sheepishly asking for strict proof. This pattern gets especially annoying and destructive when it’s backed up by discussion board mods (“don’t attack him, he was only asking for proof, even if he did it a hundred and fifty times, and now I have to delete YOUR post ....”).

Basically this is just one of many rhetorical tactics to silence “undesirable” discussions.

reply to post by DeadSnow

The problem with a conspiracy site becoming big is that it's average readers/members become more and more dis-informed because they have bought into the propaganda they receive from all the mainstream channels/sites/newspapers. Because they only report this disinformation, it is also only acceptable in society to talk about those things.

IF you mention any conspiracy almost no matter how good an argument you present you will be met with frustration and only negative consequences. Additionally once people have heard one story and not initially questioned it they believe it, once this happens they will defend that position to almost extreme lengths, almost like they don't want to be wrong or admit they were wrong even to themselves or just don't want to know because ignorance is bliss.

Take crop circles as an example. First people were amazed and in wonder, then the propaganda machine reacted and told us it was two farmers doing pranks at night with wooden planks.. It sounds plausible so everyone takes that as an explanation and looks no further, never minding all the people pointing out the complex geometric forms and mathematical formulas used in a perfect manner in the crop circles (and several other interesting things but lets not derail). Of course many are fake though.

Thus most informed people shut up about things like this in society and wear a different mask depending who they talk to, this mask contributes to people being ignorant.

ATS is also a good site getting you quickly connected to the most current events, acting as a news site. Even the totally clueless have to realize that the presidential debates are a charade and they are being lied to, or not told the whole truth in almost every case. So they come here for political analysis. As you may know, the TV won't tell them anything real.. Only chance to get informed yourself is watching the news of your governments "enemies" news as well as your own and then comparing with several independent objective sources.

The only other option is depending someone does this for you, which might be just as bad as watching mainstream news. Not many go through this time consuming process because the it almost takes all the free time you have left after a full days workday, so most people are indoctrinated towards one governments propaganda or anothers. This site has users mostly from the US so the ignorant opinions are bound to be that of US disinformation.

Besides, all those "theories" you mentioned are true, one more obvious than the other (but let's not start debating that)... So have you ever noticed that the "clueless" or debunkers most of the time are the ones that first reply to such topics, it's because they are paid dis-informants who are doing their job. Because, this is if not the biggest then one of the biggest open conspiracy sites on the internet.. it is obvious they have extended their propaganda to here by now. Last time a read a leaked(?) list of sites though ATS wasn't on it, but I don't believe it was the full list.

some claims on here are pretty outlandish and asking for proof is acceptable if they are being presented as facts.

However this site has got pretty popular over the years (you know its popular when you run into strangers or friends who read here) so you know its got the governments attention, and I assume some cointel ops.

reply to post by giugliot


You are completely right, in fact I think they have begun to rely on this and seems to have started to leak info to Wikileaks themselves (if it was not a cia operation to begin with), Syria leaks, Stratfor leaks should have gotten much more attention and where are Henry Heinz Kissingers mails that Anonymous managed to hack? It also seems to be a way to punish their own who are not obeying while not leaking anything from the real big crooks.. just my opinion.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
And the list goes on and on, what's the point of a conspiracy website if you're discriminated against every time you think outside the box?. One of the most common 'comebacks' I've come across is.."Where is your proof?", this type of behavior has got to stop. ATS is becoming a mad house!!

The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist

reply to post by Openeye


Most "conspiracies" by definition are illegal acts by 2 or more people. So if the truth were to be known, there sure would be a lot of officials in jail through out the years. As it is, it's kept secret, what ever the situation, so no one gets caught. Hence why there is no ground breaking proof, only speculation.

Look at the JFK assassination. To this day there are "experts" who support both sides as to what really happened. Who really shot JFK??? It's up to the viewer to decide which side to believe. Funny after all these years, there are still re-enactments of whether or not there were 2 shooters. That's just one example of a "conspiracy". And we will never know the absolute truth. There will always be doubt for a majority of the public.

Like another poster stated before me, not always does there have to be proof. Sometimes one can use the process of elimination to get to the truth. But a lot of people may not like what the end result may or may not be.

That's just my opinion......

Originally posted by sirbadazz

Originally posted by DocHolidaze

Originally posted by RealSpoke
God forbid people ask for proof.

on what one of these topics can one show proof of non existence, same question over and over, same answer over and over why argue over prof and start trying to find prof as two interested party's instead of one part neysaying and one yeahsaying when u deny something you take no steps further than that denial and only have info that people bring to the naysayers with out the process of finding info for yourself i guess what im trying to get at is no is so final , were yes is open to endless possibilities, there were once men that said no the earth is flat because they had no info that proved otherwise. whomever first figured out the world was not flat did so by pushing past the facts that were available.

dude, your entire rambling paragraph was almost entirely one sentence and complete nonsense. no surprise.. i have seen you often be an always present, off-subject troll, always siding against every critique of ats's disintegrating structure as a vibrant forum. mods become bullies when confronted with the same issues. the most interesting and contriversial threads appear to fade or are deleted, while nasty trolls with no semblance of open mind are given free reign. ats can delete people or threads or follow a plan to dilute content, but its a poor plan in the long term. still, it doesnt look like any trend is changing. the least they could do is update format, search engines, profiles, etc. at least i like the new homepage.. *shrugs*

its flattering you know me well enough to describe who i am here at ats, i wish i knew more about you than we could be friends, i sincerely apologize to my grammar. i can see it bothers you in such a that u we may not be able to be friends, and if i thought we couldnt be friends, i dont know if i could bare it

Originally posted by DeadSnow
Exactly, there's a polite manner to express ones views on a subject and then there's the one liner..."Where's your proof". I agree that ATS at one point in time served as a think tank.

Nothing wrong with expressing a view ( IMHO !!!!) but when a bold statement is made as if it's a fact and "only trolls would disagaree" then , sorry, that NEEDS proof. Facts need and have proof. Opinions do not.