I used to like Penn and Teller until I saw this video

LET ME CLARIFY HERE

I am not saying I dislike them for thinking the official 9/11 story is true. People are free to believe what they like.

It is the manner and VERY BLATANT agenda of the video in discrediting conspiracy theorists. This is a well known 'shill' tactic- discredit someone on a personal level- make people wonder about the sanity of people who question the official version of events.

It's all very obvious what this video's agenda is.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


In so far as personal attacks - when someone goes around promoting themselves as an expert in this field or that field, and they are not, is it a personal attack to point out that simple fact? As for the question of sanity, well just listen and read some of the "alternative" views about 9/11. Some are really starting to get very, very distant from any rational view of reality.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


I'm not commenting on the particular linked episode, but all of the Penn and Teller series are exactly like this. The whole set up of the show is more or less a one man rant about a particular subject, as far as I know it doesn't claim to be unbiased or particularly scientific in its approach and the shows have never been above the odd personal jibe or labelling someone a nut.

The show has at least once been called out for stating things which are provably wrong, like in their passive smoking episode, and have apologised for it as in the video below



The show is supposed to be confrontational and ranty about whichever subject they are on, if it annoyed you then that was probably their intent, you either love their style or hate it, I love it personally.

reply to post by davespanners


Exactly, its their style!

I loved watching them rip apart the smug folks on the Boy Scout episode and others, so I can't then be offended when they do that to a group I belong to. If you liked it when its against a group you don't like but not now, then maybe you should question why it you thought it was ok for them to be so harsh in the first place.

Me, I got thick skin, call me an "a@@hole" like they did in this episode. I would just laugh and argue with them right back, and probably share a beer with them afterwards. (Oh yeah, Penn doesn't drink)

Originally posted by Grambler
Me, I got thick skin, call me an "a@@hole" like they did in this episode. I would just laugh and argue with them right back, and probably share a beer with them afterwards. (Oh yeah, Penn doesn't drink)

I have no problem with them having differing views. What I do have a problem with is when Penn tells his audience to push 9/11 conspiracy theorists (truthers) down a flight of stairs.

If anyone is a crybaby asshole it is the one who incites violence against those whom you disagree with.

reply to post by Grambler

I would just laugh and argue with them right back, and probably share a beer with them afterwards. (Oh yeah, Penn doesn't drink)

Here, I think this is the only problem with the old "let bygones be bygones" approach to this particular conspiracy theory.

Most conpiracy theories other than 9/11 simply involve the actions of powerful people in powerful positions and I am more than willing to let them defend themselves or accept being thought of as part of a conspiracy as part of the territory for being a powerful and sometime public figure. You want to suggest that LBJ had something to do with the assisination of JFK? Fine, go ahead. But with so many of the 9/11 "theories" they require us to believe that many average citizens and even the families of the victims are in on the "inside job". Attacking and accusing innocent folks that have little or no way to defend themselves is not something that can be easily set aside.

reply to post by Wonderer2012





It is always about the person not the message. You are what is wrong with this world. Just because you disagree with one thing they say you attack them.




It really is the mark of a simple mind and why politics is so messed up.

Penn & Teller also made fun of the people who were against GMO food. That should tell you where their loyalties lie.

My best friend used to pal around with Penn and Teller back when they were struggling around Hollywood in the 1980s and 1990s. I'm sure they are nice guys (they are according to my friend), but let's face it, they are a one-trick pony, and they still have to pay the bills somehow. Kitschy magic and a guy who doesn't talk a la Harpo Marx only goes so far.

Those types of performers are the most likely to pick up a paycheck in this way. Honestly, they aren't the most talented actors in the troupe. They've done commercials, and debunking shows.

Perhaps they really do believe what they are espousing. Fair enough. But if they are just saying what they are told in order to get some foldin' money, I cannot respect that.

I also don't believe the official story concerning 9/11. Have they lost a fan in me? Nah, I never was one to begin with.

Originally posted by Monger
Brilliant. Kudos to Penn and Teller. Your response to the video is typical of somebody who just can't handle hearing an opinion different than your own - I used to like _____ until they said _____.

BINGO!

Took the words right out of my mouth (Tribute to Meatloaf).

How can anyone expect that everyone has the same ideas and ideals as you? Fine, Penn and Teller, PENN in particular, is very politically polarized. While I too enjoy his point of views, I do not share ALL of his points of view. (Was that proper english?).

But yes, the OP is being a bit defensive because Penn Gillette has an apposing point of view.

Very narrow minded.

I wonder. Could Penn's view be the truth? If the OP believes in Penn Gillette on 90% of issues, how is it that Penn could be wrong? Wouldn't that go against the odds?

Originally posted by hooper

Drop concrete 800 feet and it will break. Laws of phsyics, etc.

Perhaps you had your eyes closed when watching the videos of the WTC attack and collapse. Most of the rest of us noticed the HUUUUGE clouds of pulverized concrete which sprouted up from the WTC collapse. We also noticed the residue that fell on the streets, people, cars, etc. Maybe you believe it was "MAGIC DUST" that materialized out of thin air? Laws of physics eh? I wonder why we did not see all that solid concrete in the debris pile?

reply to post by groingrinder

I wonder why we did not see all that solid concrete in the debris pile?

I saw it there when I visited the site during the clean up. Lots of it. You weren't there? Too bad.

The magic dust was concrete which broke when it dropped a couple of hundred feet. Which broke when the building steel hit it. Which broke when the deck pans that were holding deformed during the collapse. Everyone else gets this, why are you have so much trouble with this simple concept? Each floor of the WTC towers contained about an acre of 5 inch thick concrete. About the thickness of a common concrete sidewalk. Go outside of your basement and find a concrete sidewalk (preferably your own) and hit the concrete sidewalk with a hammer. Note the dust coming off. Now mulitply that effect times a couple of billion. There's your magic dust. Can't make it any simpler.

Originally posted by -W1LL
I agree with you OP I lost alot of respect for them after that show and there were a few other shows where they really show who they are as people, even if they were just doing a show and reading a script they are still feeding the propaganda of lies and BS...


I love how people think performers performing a character think that makes them a genuinely good person most people in the industry are liars and cheats its called acting for a reason you have to put on a good show, just ask paterno.

Penn Gillette = Joe Paterno?

I dont ever think I ever would have seen those two names put together.

I just had to write it, so that I could stare at in on screen in disbelief.

Look, people earn a reputation. And most people earn the reputation they deserve. Penn Gillette has been consistently truthful and upstanding his entire career. I don't recall ever having heard a negative thing about him.

And, while this is off topic, I think Joe Paterno was expected by many to do more than what he did or failed to do. Over the last 30 years, I have had a strong association with Penn State, having attended football camp there in 1982, where Jerry Sandusky was my line backer coach. I had breakfast with Joe Paterno. And, beyond that, my cousin had been the president of the Alumni Association for many years. So while I did not necessarily like Penn State from a sporting type angle, the collective sentiment has always been that Joe Paterno was a respectable man. I do feel bad for his legacy, as he is being negatively portrayed as something he is not. My two cents.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

I hate the arrogance of those who blindly trust the official story, and I hate ignorance in all its forms. If there is a single person on Earth who can truly look at the events of 9/11 and not have some serious questions they are, in my estimation, retards.

I don't care what someone thinks happened, no sane person can dispel all of the suspicious events surrounding 9/11. The official story does not answer most of the important questions, and therefore anyone who attacks others for daring to think about it or express their concern is a pretty messed up person.

Penn and Teller are now officially retards in my book. If they can seriously hold such pathetic views they are either deluded idiots or just trolls looking for attention - neither option is gonna get my support.

They just lost a fan.

But yet, the possibility that they are right, can not be a possibility? Besides this subject, have you ever disagreed with them previously? Or is this the first?

Hold on now...that video is a few years old.
Penn Jillette has since changed his mind and has openly stated that he regrets being so close minded. I don't know about Teller's views, however.

I'm sorry...I can't remember when and where he said that...I just remember seeing it.

Originally posted by groingrinder

Originally posted by hooper

Drop concrete 800 feet and it will break. Laws of phsyics, etc.

Perhaps you had your eyes closed when watching the videos of the WTC attack and collapse. Most of the rest of us noticed the HUUUUGE clouds of pulverized concrete which sprouted up from the WTC collapse. We also noticed the residue that fell on the streets, people, cars, etc. Maybe you believe it was "MAGIC DUST" that materialized out of thin air? Laws of physics eh? I wonder why we did not see all that solid concrete in the debris pile?

Ok, lets go with your theory.

If what you say is true, that the DUST is from explosives, then how is it that Thermite cuts metal, not concrete? Where IS the dust coming from then? The metal being cut?

Or, um, from the pulverized concrete?

I used to like Penn and Teller, but had become bored with them, until I saw this video.

Penn and Teller

Originally posted by phantomjack
But yes, the OP is being a bit defensive because Penn Gillette has an apposing point of view.

Very narrow minded.

Yes, let's get on the OP's case for saying he lost respect for people who did a propaganda piece but say nothing when said person doing the piece calls for violence against those who oppose HIS (Penn's) views.

Narrow minded? Yup....just like your post. And all the posts in this thread just like it.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


I am pleased you have the freedom to express your sentiment as clearly as they do.

Calm, intelligent and even sarcastic comments are the stuff of discourse. It causes us to use our guts to feel and respond.

Never be afraid to stand up and be heard for those who died. Don't hide your anger or outrage.

I chose one person to celebrate that day. One person. To place a name and a face on that day. I adopted him. He is my soul to mourn since I knew no one personally in those buildings. I sent letters of condolence to family and co-workers. I chose him so I could personalize 9/11.

22yo male, off duty Paramedic with a private ambulance service. Was last seen outside Tower 2, going in, in street clothes, with firemen in full gear. He had been certified for less than year. He was unmarried and had no children. He moved to NYC that summer.

He was Young. He was Brave.

I say question everything. I say keep one person with you. Remember that person.

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by phantomjack
But yes, the OP is being a bit defensive because Penn Gillette has an apposing point of view.

Very narrow minded.

Yes, let's get on the OP's case for saying he lost respect for people who did a propaganda piece but say nothing when said person doing the piece calls for violence against those who oppose HIS (Penn's) views.

Narrow minded? Yup....just like your post. And all the posts in this thread just like it.

edit on 18-7-2012 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)

Respectfully, I don't see how I am being narrow minded, in that, I am open to all possibilities, especially taking into consideration science, and being able to prove one view or another based on that science.

I happen to be a non-truther...however, I can not conclusively decide one way or another as there is compelling evidence for both sides of the argument.

If you are a fan of Penn Gillette, then you know that he is very outspoken. I do not think he is LITERALLY suggesting that someone be thrown down the steps. I am able to separate the "intent" of his statement and know that it is Hyperbole.