American Exceptionalism....Where?

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
It is not the government that does this, it is the people whom it represents.

Government gets blamed because it's far more visible than the people who really run it.

Deflecting blame from th electorate to the "hidden" powers that be is just another indication of patriotism and nationalism at work.

' It can't be our fault our country is so bad, it must be fault of those we elected, oh wait, not them their friends they represent.'

That is true to a point, but in the end the electorate is responsible to be informed and vigilant of what's going on in their own country within their own legislative bodies.

~Tenth

America is a warrior country. We manufacture arms, bio/chem, and war technology and export it to the the highest despotic bidder. We also export death and destruction and call it nation building as we steal the natural resources that we need to keep our 2nd rate lifestyle afloat.

This is where America is Exceptional. ooh rah!

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Oh baloney.

This is just more bs because I see the problems and the blame differently than you.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Oh baloney.

This is just more bs because I see the problems and the blame differently than you.

No It's fact.

The electorate, put those politicians in charge, they made decisions on your behalf. If they are the wrong decisions that put your country in this position, it is YOUR job as the electorate to solve that problem is it not?

The blame lies not entirely with you the electorate, because you didn't make the "decisions" that led you down this path specifically, but your inaction and seemingly inability to do anything about it, over the course of decades is entirely your fault.

You have the right to your own opinions, not your own facts. I know it's hard to digest that some how, Americans are wrong and have to blame themselves for the situation they are in, it's much easier to blame the invisible boogie man or the government for all this.

ETA: ALL nations currently suffer from Apathy. Canada where I live, more than most places. But at least I can see it, identify it and place the blame where it belongs, with my countrymen.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The Electorate does not have to make things on our behalf. And there has been four Presidents who was sworn in who did not have the popular vote.

Plus, the Electorate system was meant as a check against the popular vote.

Edit:

Note, I am NOT claiming Americans are number one and I am NOT arguing FOR or AGAINST American exceptionalism. I just want hard unbiased information that I can check out for myself

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


The electorate is everybody in America. I'm not discussing the Electoral College or the popular vote.

I'm talking about EVERY American who is legally allowed to vote.

They are the electorate.

As for information, why are you waiting for others to provide it? You clearly own the internet, do you own research if you don't believe information that is presented to your otherwise. You can't just claim BS and then not source check the information.

~Tenth

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Oh baloney.

This is just more bs because I see the problems and the blame differently than you.

You are actually both correct to a point.

Its apathy that put the US on this path by allowing the standard of journalism to deteriorate to near worthless.

Once you get to that point its self sustaining. Enthusiasm isn't sufficient to effect change. The standard of journalism and political discourse in the nation has gotten so bad to the point that the public simply have no clue whats going on. They cant, because the earnest, perm-a tanned faces on the TV don't tell them anything of value. Its not laziness or stupidity, rather its ignorance, by design.

Even those enthusiastic about fixing the country get sucked into either the Republican or Democrat bull# machine (depending on personal circumstance or parental conditioning). Either choice changes nothing substantive so its not really a choice at all.

Its too early to tell whether the internet will succeed in bringing this realisation to the masses or get shackled and controlled. The strenuous legislative efforts to ensure the latter outcome are underway.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The Electorate is NOT everybody in America. You might want to check out this wiki:

en.wikipedia.org...

Here are a few excerpts:

Presidential electors are selected on a state-by-state basis, as determined by the laws of each state. Generally (with Maine and Nebraska being the exceptions), each state appoints its electors on a winner-take-all basis, based on the statewide popular vote on Election Day. Although ballots list the names of the presidential candidates, voters within the 50 states and Washington, D.C. actually choose electors for their state when they vote for President and Vice President. These presidential electors in turn cast electoral votes for those two offices. Even though the aggregate national popular vote is calculated by state officials and media organizations, the national popular vote is not the basis for electing a President or Vice President. A candidate must receive an absolute majority of electoral votes (currently 270) to win the Presidency. If no candidate receives a majority in the election for President, or Vice President, that election is determined via a contingency procedure in the Twelfth Amendment, which is explained in detail below.

The size of the Electoral College is equal to the total voting membership of both Houses of Congress (435 Representatives and 100 Senators) plus the three electors allocated to Washington, D.C., totaling 538 electors. Each state is allocated as many electors as it has Representatives and Senators in the United States Congress.[33][34] Since the most populous states have the most seats in the House of Representatives, they also have the most electors. The six states with the most electors are California (55), Texas (38), New York (29), Florida (29), Illinois (20), and Pennsylvania (20).

The seven smallest states by population—Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming—have three electors each. Each state's number of Representatives is determined every 10 years by the United States Census, thus determining the number of electoral votes for each state. Under the Twenty-third Amendment, Washington, D.C. is allocated as many electors as it would have if it were a state, but no more electors than the least populous state.

The least populous state (Wyoming) has three electors; thus, D.C. cannot have more than three electors. Even if D.C. were a state, its current population would entitle it to three electors; based on its population per electoral vote, D.C. has the second highest per-capita Electoral College representation, after Wyoming.[35]

And stop attacking me because I disagree with you.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Define attack?

I am debating you, that's different than attacking you. I haven't called you any names, or been rude to you in any context. So please realize that disagreement and debate are hardly personal attacks.

As for your content you linked, no you misunderstanding what I am telling you.

I don't care how the system of electing a President works, I'm very well aware of it, I was probably around watching things unfold before you were born. ( just an assumption)

EVERY citizen of the United States Of American is responsible for making sure that it's government is working for the people not against it. Apathy and the lack of working towards a better system is what led you down this path.

Therefore it is partly every American's fault ( who is above the age of majority) that this is still the current situation.

~Tenth

I am an American by birth, a Celt and Scandinavian by ancestry. America has provided much for the world in industrial things, back in the "Golden Age" of the 19th century when it all started (the mega-millionaires were self-made men). Many of those men were defected Englishmen, and many, many inventions were devised by those English "parish church" leaders. Very few had any real piety.

In my opinion, America has been downsliding steadily, and a lot of that is due to the enormous size of the country and its population. Iceland rocks because they are a smaller. Smaller groups are more cohesive. There is too much intolerance here, and arrogance. "We" are not the best nation on the planet, our GOVERNMENT is just the bossiest. WE the citizens do not formulate foreign policy. If only.

I for one am embarrassed by it, and am working quietly at changing things, in my own way. Would I rather leave? Yes, I think I would. But here I am, so I step up to the best of my ability.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


And I just won't agree with you. Because you see, the masses can be manipulated through various means. It's something the media does on a constant basis.

No, not every single America out there is responsible for this mess. Just the ones who support the bankers.

Americans aren't bad or evil people, they mostly want to be left alone and live their own lives as they see fit. That's what America was meant for.

America was meant to be a prosperous country with an unobtrusive government.

Unfortunately, it got overrun by big money interests and a whole lot of crazy people trying to tear America down at every turn out of jealousy or just sheer nuttiness.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


“America is the greatest engine of innovation that has ever existed, and it can't be duplicated anytime soon, because it is the product of a multitude of factors: extreme freedom of thought, an emphasis on independent thinking, a steady immigration of new minds, a risk-taking culture with no stigma attached to trying and failing, a noncorrupt bureaucracy, and financial markets and a venture capital system that are unrivaled at taking new ideas and turning them into global products.”
― Thomas L. Friedman

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


That's fine you don't have to agree. But yyour indoctrination and apathy are just as bad as the rest of the people who have no idea that their politics and monetary system is controlled.

It is every citizen's job, in every country to be vigilant, informed and to fight against a tryrannical government. It's our job as people who are "awake" to make these people aware of these things and get them involved in the current system so it can be changed.

You can duck your head in the sand, and pretend like you aren't just as guilty as those who don't know a damn thing about any of this, but the truth is you are, we all are, until we pull ourselves up by our boot straps and do something about it.

~Tenth

Boy how wrong that quote is.

Apathy by the american public is the problem.
The main way apathy is expressed in america is , peoples acceptability.
If we just sit back and watch what goes on around us and not respond then we are accepting things.
We all sit back and just watch police brutality, so it is acceptable.
We let two clowns run for president, we find it acceptable and vote for the lesser of the two evils.
We let the system educate our children, we accept it and send them off to school.
We get taxed on everything, we accept it and just pay.
Things are only acceptable only as long as we accept them.
Typing your objection on some internet site is still only accepting the way thing are, because you'll never get an acceptable response.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

So you tell me America, why do you feel like your nation is better today, than those who are out performing you in almost every area?

We have Walmarts though and unlimited places to shop and buy things made in China.
We have the cheapest and most available products brought straight from a thousand other countries.

We are the best and most aggressive shoppers. That should count for something.

A few of these seem concrete, such as mobile phones and infant survival rate, but the rest seem rather vague. How exactly do they define the data in democracy, freedom of the press, effectiveness of education, or quality of healthcare?
It's obvious that US is no longer number one. It's been this way for a while and a lot of people know this. But these particular stats are too vague to support this.

S&F

Tothetenth, what are you doing you can't go bursting our America's #1 bubble...

Its the biggest problem America has, its not till we admit there is something fundamentally wrong with the current system that we can fix it.

we are number one in Debt, Prison pop, and Obesity though, go Merica...

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

We have Walmarts though and unlimited places to shop and buy things made in China.
We have the cheapest and most available products brought straight from a thousand other countries.

We are the best and most aggressive shoppers. That should count for something.

Shop until you drop (where 'drop' means completely collapse the economy)

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Unfortunately, it got overrun by big money interests and a whole lot of crazy people trying to tear America down at every turn out of jealousy or just sheer nuttiness.

It wouldn't have anything to do with America sticking its nose into the rest of the worlds business and using it's economic might to make sure it got the good deal at the expense of the world would it? And in doing so managed to send the country broke, decimate the middle class, rust the infrastructure and destroy manufacturing?

Nah, no reason at all for people to be pissed at America - they are all just "crazy people trying to tear America down at every turn out of jealousy or just sheer nuttiness".