Air Force Drones Trail Civilian Auto Traffic in New Mexico

For all those who said it would never happen or that drones over the US is completely safe/nothing to worry about. I beg to differ.

The USAF is reportedly targeting and trailing civilian auto traffic on New Mexico's highways. Harmless or just another example of the blurred lines between the international and domestic application of U.S. military technology?

They are most likely not "armed drones," but news has surfaced that the US Air Force is training drone pilots to trail civilian auto traffic on New Mexico's highways.

Full article

They aren't armed drones yet, but this is just one step closer.

I'm having a hard time getting what the problem is with the Military training on nothing more than optics and image tracking (Okay..target tracking..but that's a harsh word for unarmed training)

It seems to me that the civilian vehicles are of absolutely no interest to the Airmen doing this beyond being moving objects to master the technical aspects of keeping a lock on. Now, if there is a weapon behind that tracking system while in training, I'll say my understanding attitude changes to one of vicious condemnation in the time it takes to say it.


BTW...... How do people think Satellite tracking was first developed and likely stll trained in some ways? People just weren't told everything back then. I swear EVERYTHING is a public announcement and every training evolution has become a public spectacle without explanation..to basically worry the hell out of everyone. It's insane, but the training itself isn't what I find totally crazy.

I guess the satellites were busy or there were too many clouds. You should pretty much know that big brother is watching you. It should not be a shock. So now you are not living in the dark, you know you are "painted" by a laser, targeted for attack. I don't feel safer, we should use another method of being safe.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'm having a hard time getting what the problem is with the Military training on nothing more than optics and image tracking (Okay..target tracking..but that's a harsh word for unarmed training)

It seems to me that the civilian vehicles are of absolutely no interest to the Airmen doing this beyond being moving objects to master the technical aspects of keeping a lock on. Now, if there is a weapon behind that tracking system while in training, I'll say my understanding attitude changes to one of vicious condemnation in the time it takes to say it.


BTW...... How do people think Satellite tracking was first developed and likely stll trained in some ways? People just weren't told everything back then. I swear EVERYTHING is a public announcement and every training evolution has become a public spectacle without explanation..to basically worry the hell out of everyone. It's insane, but the training itself isn't what I find totally crazy.

edit on 16-7-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I'm having a hard time understanding why we need these spying on us. You have a good explanation for it? Why do we have drones in our skies? We're all a bunch of morons for allowing this to happen. Period.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The problem is that it's just one more step closer to a full-blown police state. No offense but people who have no problem with stuff like this are exactly what they are looking for. They want people to be comfortable with this. Every little thing we let them get away with, that we become comfortable with, all that stuff begins to add up.

Originally posted by Bilk22

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'm having a hard time getting what the problem is with the Military training on nothing more than optics and image tracking (Okay..target tracking..but that's a harsh word for unarmed training)

It seems to me that the civilian vehicles are of absolutely no interest to the Airmen doing this beyond being moving objects to master the technical aspects of keeping a lock on. Now, if there is a weapon behind that tracking system while in training, I'll say my understanding attitude changes to one of vicious condemnation in the time it takes to say it.


BTW...... How do people think Satellite tracking was first developed and likely stll trained in some ways? People just weren't told everything back then. I swear EVERYTHING is a public announcement and every training evolution has become a public spectacle without explanation..to basically worry the hell out of everyone. It's insane, but the training itself isn't what I find totally crazy.

edit on 16-7-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I'm having a hard time understanding why we need these spying on us. You have a good explanation for it? Why do we have drones in our skies? We're all a bunch of morons for allowing this to happen. Period.

The debate over the drone program as a whole is a great one I'm about as mixed on as they have stated purposes and goals to pursue with it. I'm avoiding it because I didn't take the OP to be going that direction.

For pure and simple training though.....I try and be careful about perspective here. We want a military strong enough to protect and defend our nation (and if someone doesn't...the door works, use it.), We can't do that without training and how else are they to get effective training in depth? They can't very well run so many vehicles on test tracks so the training works to tracking one moving object among many in reality.

To look at this another way.... For all we know, those 18/19yr olds controlling the drones may be the ones who DO make a difference in a GOOD way even people here might approve of some day....It'd be a pity for that possible moment of good skill to go to friendly fire because the Airman didn't get training he needed in a harmless and forgiving environment. Just another way to view it I guess.

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

The problem is that it's just one more step closer to a full-blown police state. No offense but people who have no problem with stuff like this are exactly what they are looking for. They want people to be comfortable with this. Every little thing we let them get away with, that we become comfortable with, all that stuff begins to add up.

We need to find balance is my point. If we were as anti-training and anti-military in 1941 as we are today, we wouldn't be flying old glory and saying hello. We'd be flying the Meatball on the West Coast and a far less desirable on where the Nazi's and Nippon Empire split the spoils and called it even.

Balance...we do NOT have...I agree. We're so far into warmonger territory now, it's hard to see home anymore...but we still need balance when we get back there.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I don't think we need "balance" or surveillance of "our own people" by the military

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I don't think we need "balance" or surveillance of "our own people" by the military

We'll have to agree to disagree there then. As much as I may agree with the statement that our troops are being badly misused right now, this isn't going to last forever. This war, like all wars, WILL end someday and the last two train wrecks in the White House will fade into history some day. When all that happens, we STILL need a functional military and a strong one.

The alternative? Pick your master. China? Russia? The EU? Perhaps a new Union up from Central and South America? If History teaches one thing, it's that those who cannot defend what they have in this world will not keep anything worth having for longer than it takes for someone else to want it more.

Win Lose or Draw...these are American boys and girls testing American systems for use by American personnel. If not here then train where? Over Canada? Mexico? Iran? I'm sure the world might agree here, but training Americans over America seems a new idea for what we've done lately and one well past it's time.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I don't need a strong military, it has gotten way out of hand. In fact, dump the whole lot. Who is going to invade?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Bilk22

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'm having a hard time getting what the problem is with the Military training on nothing more than optics and image tracking (Okay..target tracking..but that's a harsh word for unarmed training)

It seems to me that the civilian vehicles are of absolutely no interest to the Airmen doing this beyond being moving objects to master the technical aspects of keeping a lock on. Now, if there is a weapon behind that tracking system while in training, I'll say my understanding attitude changes to one of vicious condemnation in the time it takes to say it.


BTW...... How do people think Satellite tracking was first developed and likely stll trained in some ways? People just weren't told everything back then. I swear EVERYTHING is a public announcement and every training evolution has become a public spectacle without explanation..to basically worry the hell out of everyone. It's insane, but the training itself isn't what I find totally crazy.

edit on 16-7-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I'm having a hard time understanding why we need these spying on us. You have a good explanation for it? Why do we have drones in our skies? We're all a bunch of morons for allowing this to happen. Period.

The debate over the drone program as a whole is a great one I'm about as mixed on as they have stated purposes and goals to pursue with it. I'm avoiding it because I didn't take the OP to be going that direction.

For pure and simple training though.....I try and be careful about perspective here. We want a military strong enough to protect and defend our nation (and if someone doesn't...the door works, use it.), We can't do that without training and how else are they to get effective training in depth? They can't very well run so many vehicles on test tracks so the training works to tracking one moving object among many in reality.

To look at this another way.... For all we know, those 18/19yr olds controlling the drones may be the ones who DO make a difference in a GOOD way even people here might approve of some day....It'd be a pity for that possible moment of good skill to go to friendly fire because the Airman didn't get training he needed in a harmless and forgiving environment. Just another way to view it I guess.

Without the drones flying over American soil we wouldn't be having this conversation, which is the way I would prefer it to be. There is no good reason for them being in our skies. Period.

Originally posted by Bilk22

Without the drones flying over American soil we wouldn't be having this conversation, which is the way I would prefer it to be. There is no good reason for them being in our skies. Period.

Agreed entirely. You're preaching to the choir if one looks at what I've said before on this. I'm as hard against the new fascination with remote control toys as anyone. They had their place as a support tool but not a primary replacement to soldiers with a brain and eyes on the scene. No Argument.

Of course...Bush didn't ask, Obama isn't asking and Romney won't care anymore than they did about what we think or want. So....accepting that we will have drones whether I like it or not and nothing I do will change that one iota, I can't see complaining about unarmed image training sessions anymore than F-16's flying over populated areas to and from the range. If anything, the armed planes with pilots are more dangerous with the training shots. The drones are clean wings from all the material over the last week or two on this subject,

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Bilk22

Without the drones flying over American soil we wouldn't be having this conversation, which is the way I would prefer it to be. There is no good reason for them being in our skies. Period.

Agreed entirely. You're preaching to the choir if one looks at what I've said before on this. I'm as hard against the new fascination with remote control toys as anyone. They had their place as a support tool but not a primary replacement to soldiers with a brain and eyes on the scene. No Argument.

Of course...Bush didn't ask, Obama isn't asking and Romney won't care anymore than they did about what we think or want. So....accepting that we will have drones whether I like it or not and nothing I do will change that one iota, I can't see complaining about unarmed image training sessions anymore than F-16's flying over populated areas to and from the range. If anything, the armed planes with pilots are more dangerous with the training shots. The drones are clean wings from all the material over the last week or two on this subject,

F16s can't hover above your backyard. They can't peer into your windows. They can't use remote listening devices. This is just wrong and we have given our freedoms away without a fight.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well we can agree to disagree, but you put way too much faith in our government. This war will end some day? When? How long is long enough? It's been well over a decade. What makes you think it will end soon? And if it does what's to say another war won't break out? They are already eyeing up Syria and Iran, possibly Egypt. Plus look at what has been happening in Libya. I believe in the next few years another war will erupt between us and one or more of those countries I mentioned.

The last TWO train wrecks in the White House? Only two? ok

And spare the me "The alternative? Pick your master. China? Russia? The EU?" crap. Just because I reject America and it's Western Colonial Imperialism doesn't mean that I want China or Russia or the EU or Saudi or any other country's rule. That's an absolute strawman you are crafting. The argument you are proposing is the same one I've heard a million times. "America may not be the best but it's better than [insert country that you find repulsive here]."

If you pick the lesser of two evils you are still choosing evil. No thanks.

And you innocently claim they are just "training" them for use in the future against other nations. That's an extremely naive view. It seems to me, no offense, that you still buy way into this "America, rah rah rah!" b.s.

reply to post by Bilk22


The problem is too many people buy into the propaganda. They follow the whole "If America is doing it must be for the best" view. They think that the government would never use such things against INNOCENT Americans.

This leads me to ask the questions: Who created the Patriot Act which allows warantless wiretapping? Who renditions American citizens in the middle of the night to foreign countries to torture them? Who signed the NDAA which allowed the indefinite detention of American citizens? Who has assassinated American citizens like Anwar al-Awlaki? America has.

There's just way too much trust of Big Brother and way too many people who blindly turn their eye to this stuff because they truly believe America is looking out for them and their best interest.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by Bilk22

 

The problem is too many people buy into the propaganda. They follow the whole "If America is doing it must be for the best" view. They think that the government would never use such things against INNOCENT Americans.

This leads me to ask the questions: Who created the Patriot Act which allows warantless wiretapping? Who renditions American citizens in the middle of the night to foreign countries to torture them? Who signed the NDAA which allowed the indefinite detention of American citizens? Who has assassinated American citizens like Anwar al-Awlaki? America has.

There's just way too much trust of Big Brother and way too many people who blindly turn their eye to this stuff because they truly believe America is looking out for them and their best interest.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

I was one of those who trusted OUR government. That they would act in the interests of THE PEOPLE. Unless there's something we're not being told, they aren't acting on our behalf. They are decimating our freedoms. I see that now. But like many, I was late to come to my senses and now there's probably nothing we can do to reverse what's already been lost.

reply to post by Bilk22


I used to also. Well not at first haha. My activism started during the Bush adminstration with his Middle Eastern crusades. Then Barack Obama came about and I was star struck. I'll admit it. I still do agree with some of his policies, but I really compromised my views and ideals. Now, I will not. I refuse to buy into these government figureheads ever again.

Originally posted by Bilk22]

F16s can't hover above your backyard. They can't peer into your windows. They can't use remote listening devices. This is just wrong and we have given our freedoms away without a fight.

Again.. I agree..Although I'd point out one BIG reason this latest development isn't getting me overly excited. After the latest image updates at Google Earth, I can now count the number of steps on my back porch stoop. It's not crisp, but I can count them. I can even see quite clearly that I had one style of patio chairs out at the time it was taken and not another set I'd had quite awhile back. This is Google...public...and free.

Uncle has been giving peek-a-boo access to law enforcement and DHS just takes what they want from military grade stuff , and that has been for quite some time now. Drones are adding what to the violation? I was Irate years ago when this started, but I was the odd duckling who just farted in Church to bring this up back then. Now? Well.. hell... That horse is out of the barn, across the pastures and probably through the dog food and glue factories by now.

@Abdullah

It's acceptance to a degree but with a strong dose of the reasoning above. We're FAR too late to be all mad and indignant now. The time was before precedent made today's developments beyond even casual public debate.

In terms of the rest and larger picture? Well..... America needs reform. Radical, perhaps. As noted in another thread though, destruction of the system is a one way ticket and leaves nothing to come back home to.

Finally.... Yes. This war will end. When? Hell.. Ask the English and the French about that. They had quite a long term disagreement between themselves a 'few' years back. These things can go awhile. Those we've been bombing the senses out of for 10+ years may also have other ideas about when this war ends by their sense of things. Who knows... Sadly though, I think the best answer ...and it KILLS ME to say this....This war ends when our sided loses and is kicked off the battlefield. We just NEVER know when to quit.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

1. If you're driving around in public, you have no expectation of privacy. You can be observed by other drivers, pedestrians, people in houses looking out their windows, traffic helicopters, and -- yes -- FMV sensor operators in training.

2. Sensor operators have to get their training somewhere. If a unit is in New Mexico, that's where they're going to train.

3. This isn't "news." These units have always trained this way. In all these years, I do not believe there has been even one report of a civilian's safety, rights, or comfort being compromised. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine how a civilian could in any way be harmed or even inconvenienced by a small airplane thousands of feet above it.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


Right now there's not. But again it's about them getting us used to these things. Eventually they will be commonplace. And I never said anyone had been hurt by them.