UFO's=Aliens?

Originally posted by The GUT

Well, if the following quote is to be believed, MathematicalPhysicist, we might have to reduce that 5% a bit.

The rest of the article also details some specifics that might come to bear on the OP's questions as well. Check it out.

I've already addressed this earlier in this thread. This theory has flaws, because it presupposes that all the UFO sightings over military bases tracked on radar are top secret experimental air craft. Too many questions remained unanswered. Why would these experimental air craft be tested over air force bases with none of the officers on the base "in the know"? Why would these bases scramble jets against to intercept their own experimental weapons according to many witnesses including military personnel and civilians? If this cover-up is only limited to the U.S, why are these crafts seen in many countries around the world without any form of diplomatic consent, which is a very serious violation of that country's sovereignty, some of which are America's most closest allies? Do all of these countries now have top secret weapons programs and with funding that is comparable to the U.S government's funding of these projects?

Why do humans always attribute a single mindedness to the things they either don't know exist but believe it does, or to things that may exist, but cannot be confirmed?

Why is there the "Alien Agenda" ? Why would they - if they did come here thousands of years ago - still be doing the same thing now? Why would it not be easier to think of them, much like us earthlings, as a group of similar yet separate beings? Why does it have to be a single them, with a single agenda, to skew what ever it is you believe and confuse yourself?

Who's to say that there are not Hitler aliens, Ghandi aliens, George Bush aliens, Obama aliens, Saddam aliens? all with their own agenda and ideas... If there are indeed aliens, we're nothing but a big fat blue petri dish to them.

Maybe they're using us as lab animals, to test their own vaccines on, and see what it does to us? Like the dog strapped into the machine with his skull cut open and electrodes plugged in, or the bunny with the weeping sick eyes from the cosmetic industry?

For all we know, the aliens are like the Ori of stargate, and want us to worship them, and they see us as wandering off the path to enlightenment, hallowed are the Ori, by the way.

It's the same with the illuminati, nwo, tptb... oooh sinister, they're all one big group of fat bald men sitting around a wooden table drinking red wine from the skulls of slaves, and chomping down on cigars rolled with the fat of dead babies, and guffawing at the simplicity of it all..

Is your neighbour thinking the same as you are? Is he going to do the same as you? We're as varied and different as snowflakes in a blizard, but it's the illusion of a single mindedness that betrays the belief that we know whats going on. If you cannot see the individual snow flakes, then you cannot say you know for sure what the blizzard is made of.

Not thousands of light-years. Besides our own Sun, there are 49 sunlike stars within 51 light-years of Earth. That's where visitors would be from. The two prime-candidate star systems are 39 light-years from Earth and only a few light-weeks from each other, giving them a jump in incentive and ease of first getting to another star system. It's sort of like the difference between someone who thinks it's impossible to learn a foreign language and a professional interpreter, who knows how to do it when deciding to add one more language to his/her repertoire. And a large moon is very helpful in maintaining an atmosphere, but that effect can be gained for a planet just by being a bit closer to its star than Earth is to the Sun, since the strength of tidal force changes not by distance squared but by the fourth power, meaning the probability of life on other planets within 50 light-years is higher than one might expect. Astronomers recently want to add brown dwarfs, which are much more common, to the list of candidates, but I think that’s pushing it.

en.wikipedia.org...

And what about Einstein's speed limit? Gravitic propulsion would not be subject to it.
Here's a little quote related to quantum gravity, from the Web site of Vienna University of Technology:

The cosmological constant problem entails a gigantic discrepancy (123 orders of magnitude) between observation and naive theoretical expectation, and so far no satisfying explanation exists that resolves this discrepancy.

itp.tuwien.ac.at...

I think 123 may be overstating it, but I agree that we don't know squat.

Originally posted by Kang69
Ok, I got some questions for UFO'rs and ET fellows

Aliens come here thousands of years ago. They study the planet entirely, taking notes of all the lifeforms and plants. They abduct a Human and get his DNA. Then they go on they're merry way.

This is what I don't understand. Why would they come back?

Maybe OP, they lived here first and are below ground in their own realms and use strobes ect to alert certain above ground authorities of their presence. Other option blk craft or gov high tech secret/craft.

If there are aliens visiting, which your post presupposes, then perhaps they are curious? Scientists? Interested in the massive amount of species and history on our planet?

Applying a motivation to an unknown psychology is a dangerous thing - too easy to put our own projections onto it, but I would imagine, if they have managed to become space-faring, they are scientists and full of a similar motive to learn about this amazing universe. Why wouldn't they come back and see how these funny looking, smelly and brutal "earth creatures" are developing? "Oh look, Greebok! Aren't they cute! They've Industrialized!" "Yes, Zorgob, my thesis is going to be totally awesome!"

And, if we look at the interconnectedness of things on our own planet (ecosystems, etc.) is it possible that we are somehow in a relationship/connection with them whether we know about it or not, by virtue of being conscious, alive and active in the universe? That is esoteric and entirely unprovable, but since we are using our imaginations to look at this, well, why not? We really don't know that much, honestly. If they have a few thousand or a million years of development on us, and have managed to master space travel, well, I'm guessing they know more...

There are so many "what ifs" that don't involve "evil aliens" at all. For example, what if our presumed alien visitors find conscious life in our universe to be a precious, intriguing and exicting thing, and their mission is "to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no [insert species] has gone before?"

"Boldly Going" - article on the real origins of the Star Trek Monologue

peace,
AB

Originally posted by Kang69
I think there are unknown species in this vast universe, but abducting us and flying around everywhere to study our DNA or perform bs medical experiments risking there identities and their safety? It is illogical.

It is not illogical, it is unbelievable.

We have a scientist in 1980 tracking an object from someone's brain after she witnessed a cattle mutilation with the wife of a police officer. If you are interested in UFOs, you should know that it is a fact Colorado law enforcement blamed the mutilation of cattle on aliens in the 1970s. It is not common now, because it is not happening now.

I know, it is too hard for us to take. But that is logic - it was logical for police to blame it on aliens if you have studied the events. It was logical for Dr. Leo Sprinkle to believe Louise Smith and Elaine Thomas because someone saw a darn beam come down from a 100 ft. UFO and abduct them. It was logical for the nurse in Colares to believe that beams were coming down from UFOs because the whole city left because they were scared but it was very hard for her at first, it was just too unbelievable. It logical to believe the admired men of America like Dr. Edgar Mitchell and the Roswell witnesses because they are hereos.

Real, fake, truth, I admit it is hard to distinguish especially when you're dealing with something as fantastic as a species that is smaller than us but has a mind 100 times more powerful and is not from here.

reply to post by Kang69


Why would they come back? The logical answer is they are watching our progress as a species. Are we going to stay this horrible race, or will we actually progress peacefully. Think about it. What happens when our technology gives up space travel and other amazing tech. Other beings will be very worried if we have all this tech, but still we are this horrible destructive race that likes tribal warfare and to dominate. They could be next!

So, it makes perfect sense that they would watch us to see how we progress.

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

 

Oh and btw forgot to add, wheres the evidence of jets being scrambled against ufo's? I'm going to assume you don't remember right?

You are joking, right? There have been many cases, cases you can freely view online that show that jets were scrambled against ufos. Sigh! another poster who talks alot, but knows little about the subject

reply to post by Kang69


We make great pets. The ones that can't be house broken are sent back to the pound, I mean Earth.

Why would they come back?

You think they just by chance and circumstance stumbled upon this planet?

First of the way things are is far more than a material universe, with science officers boarding a material craft, leaving their planet and discovering another rock has life.

This is a matrix. Look into what that means. its like a school.

Ets, and Higher Ups created and managed earth, for the school. For their own children, and it has been hijacked by negatives, a bit like star wars, but different splinters of their own families. Ets also stayed, both sides, both polarities, good and bad, because it still is a school, even when the outcome of natural consequence allows a negative takeover (ie, negative cannot overtake any planet or system that has positivity, love, equality, sharing, and high frequency. negativity is a trojan horse, that only gets in a toe in through greed and separation, and violence). So while Higher Ups, may allow souls to learn from their mistakes and go through law of consequence for a while, or a more negative school to exist, they don't leave it.

People have to have choices.

What is ET?

Et is citizens from other planets, usually in higher grades although there are sides, up to certain levels, polarities. U-Turns get made alot.

There is No Time, its artificial, a program of orbit around a star and its hardwired in a brain, so your "time" continues if you were to travel to Mars or Pluto, it would need some tweaking internally to change it. If you program a bot to experience your day in 15 minutes of your time, you would vanish from his site and he would be standing still in yours. This also explains some of their "phasing" or "stealth" technology, and some of the "fast walkers". Though some of that is technology.

So, without earthtime, or even time, for anyone but us earth time guys here, you have quite a difference in who ET is.

Et is corporal, ET is entity, ET is inbetween by our standards, as there are higher frequency channels/dimensions/realms. Infinite space-time and infinite frequency channels in this infinite school universe/matrix.

Angels would be Ets too.

Your own family, from a Future perspective, coming back to wake you up more, is also ET. Your families and friends from past journeys are also ETs, and they also come to wake us up in these test because they love us, if we have earned a glimpse under the veil.

All the ETs on the planet, that ever operated on earth, past, present and future.

If you look in the mirror, you will aslo meet ET, for your soul is not formed on earth.

And metaphysics or spiritual is more real than so called surreal 'matter' surrounding us.

And its really mind boggling.

reply to post by Kang69


The subject of UFOs is saturated with hoaxes and disinformation, bizarre and almost paranormal events, and so extensive rumination; trying to compose a cohesive universal theory, will almost certainly drive you mad

In terms of the perenially debated alien agenda, I would focus on the fact that our planet may well be unique among millions, or perhaps even billions of surrounding planets, because it features organic life

Alien space missions may require periodic replenishment of water, electrolytes, hydrocarbons, solar energy and other staples which should be relatively abundant for any super-advanced space-faring civilisation

Perhaps not so abundant are the resources unique to organic life making the Earth an oasis in the desert which happens to be shared by conscious lifeforms we call humans whom could be seen by aliens as nothing more than an amusing distraction

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


I would be glad to.

Before we get started, have you ever heard of MK-ULTRA?

All of the documents of this project have been declassified. You have witnesses, thousands of documents, and plenty of court cases.

www.dailypaul.com...


www.michael-robinett.com...


vigilantcitizen.com...

Great links^

educate-yourself.org...

This one is great^


That's just a few.


Now the articles you linked. These could have been easily NASA prototypes or military prototypes.

the x-43a can travel up to mach 10, which would explain most of these "UFOS".

Even then, like some of the posters said, UFO's are perfect to hide UAV drones spying on foreign nations.

I'm awaiting your response.

reply to post by Jay-morris


These "UFO'S" could easily be UAV drones, and NASA prototypes, such as the x-43a, which can travel up to mach 10.

Calling things UFO's are the perfect cover up for spying on foreign nations with spy planes.

reply to post by Jay-morris



Watching our progress? Then why the abductions? Why the UFO's flying around at low altitude?

Wait these beings don't have a satellite?

If they wanted to spy on us, they wouldn't be risking themselves flying around, they would be spying from satellites or more high tech equipment in space.

reply to post by mainidh


I think people make the excuse of confusing these horrible people that have performed crimes against humanity with aliens from another planet.

We all know why most of this # happens. Money. Money makes people less human. Whether you want to think their aliens from another World, they have detached themselves. People need to understand that there are far worse people then Ted Bundy and Jefferey Dahmer. Try Rothschild for instance, funding both sides of wars since the beginning of his dynasty.

Just like we go to war, Halliburton's stocks soar and it's business as usual.

Until I get my Truth sunglasses I'm not buying that these people are from another planet. They're Ted Bundy's with absolute power.

Originally posted by Kang69

I would be glad to.

Before we get started, have you ever heard of MK-ULTRA?

All of the documents of this project have been declassified. You have witnesses, thousands of documents, and plenty of court cases.

www.dailypaul.com...


www.michael-robinett.com...


vigilantcitizen.com...

Great links^

What is this evidence for? It seems you just linked to a bunch of stories that make ridiculous claims and yet "cannot find the evidence". In your first link, there is no evidence alleged experiments done by the CIA

“A lot of this work was done out of Tulane University using a local state hospital and funding from a cut-out (front) organization called the Commonwealth Fund,” he said.

Source: Raw Story (s.tt...)
Quoted from the article linked in the first post.

Your second link provides no evidence that these are declassified documents or if these are declassified documents that have undergone some form of alteration. There is also no source on these documents where one can verify they are straight from a government agency. You could have at least linked to an official, government website that has declassified these as I have with British Ministry of Defense's official website. And court cases amount to nothing. Thousands of unjustified law suits are filed every year, that does not imply there is any merit of truth to them. And finally, your last two links are conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality or no form of evidence to support. Basically, you are dismissing a very real phenomenon that is backed by many documented cases of governments across the world that have disclosed them on their official websites, but instead choose to support conspiracy theories that are of no substance and seemed to be conjured up by people with very wild imaginations.

Originally posted by Kang69
Now the articles you linked. These could have been easily NASA prototypes or military prototypes.

the x-43a can travel up to mach 10, which would explain most of these "UFOS".

Even then, like some of the posters said, UFO's are perfect to hide UAV drones spying on foreign nations.

I'm awaiting your response.

Why on earth would top secret U.S air craft be flown in the UK without diplomatic consent? You do realize that is a violation of a sovereign country's air space is of such severity that it can cause war to break out? And if diplomatic consent was given, the British would clearly not have scrambled jets to intercept them. Why would the U.S risk war with one of its closest allies over something as trivial as testing their new air-craft? You have absolutely zero evidence that can even hint at such an explanation.

It is clear we are done here. All I will leave you with is this quote by Dr Bernard Haisch, director of California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics:

One should be skeptical of both the believers and the scoffers. The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism. If a competent witness reports having seen something tens of degrees of arc in size (as happens) and the scoffer -- who of course was not there -- offers Venus or a high altitude weather balloon as an explanation, the requirement of extraordinary proof for an extraordinary claim falls on the proffered negative claim as well. That kind of approach is also pseudo-science.

reply to post by TheBloodRed


I was responding to why do they come back. Regarding UFO's only..they are here and more coming..Happy Holidays!! The really large ships should be here Dec-2012. Will they land? I do not know. I do know..they will be seen by everyone..

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Watching our progress? Then why the abductions? Why the UFO's flying around at low altitude?

Wait these beings don't have a satellite?

If they wanted to spy on us, they wouldn't be risking themselves flying around, they would be spying from satellites or more high tech equipment in space.

What makes you think that everyone who believe that some ufo cases defy explanation, also believes in ET abductions? Why do you think that ET would think like us primitive human beings? who knows why? I dont know, and you dont know.

Has it dawn on you that maybe, just maybe, if some of these ufos are ET, then maybe they want to be seen. If they dont want to make it official just yet, wouldnt the next best thing be getting people used to the fact that ET might be coming here?

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

These "UFO'S" could easily be UAV drones, and NASA prototypes, such as the x-43a, which can travel up to mach 10.

Calling things UFO's are the perfect cover up for spying on foreign nations with spy planes.

Drones that can magically change direction, and move at great speeds, in some cases, being viewed by the pilot, and ground radar. Also, you think dones have been around since the 50's lol

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

MathematicalPhysicist, I'm a believer…of sorts. I just think it's important for anyone interested in the ufo phenomenon to understand that some of their most cherished cases have possibly been hoaxes and/or psyops/disinfo.

It makes one a more critical--and credible--researcher.

Below is some info--from Dr. Jacques Vallee--that addresses your short-sightedness. No offense.

Are you familiar with the so-called Pentacle Memo?

...To anyone who still failed to see the importance of the 1955 memorandrum, Vallee added that “the Pentacle proposal goes far beyond anything mentioned before. It daringly states that ‘many different types of aerial activity should be secretly and purposefully scheduled within the area’. It is difficult to be more clear. We are not talking simply about setting up observing stations and cameras. We are talking about large-scale, covert simulation of UFO waves under military control.”...

...It showed that the government treated UFOs as a cover… but that the report also suggested – because of no references to it – that no extra-terrestrial craft had landed, or crashed. Vallee agreed that “the significance of the memo comes, in part, from what it does not say. In particular, it makes no reference to any recovered UFO hardware, at Roswell or elsewhere, or to alien bodies.”
www.philipcoppens.com...

Did you get the part where Dr. Vallee stated, "It is difficult to be more clear. We are not talking simply about setting up observing stations and cameras. We are talking about large-scale, covert simulation of UFO waves under military control.”

The "Pentacle Memorandum"
Including Text of Correspondence from Dr. Jacques Vallee from CUFON.

More on the subject with references from Isaac Koi