Paperclip till Present

Ok, I was just thinking about this and found it weird. Ever since Operation Paperclip occurred at the end of WWII in which we illegally imported Nazi scientists to work in the US, we have become hush-hush about nearly everything. Think about it, Roswell happened in 1947, 2 years after WWII and into Paperclip. The government has been covering up everything and has not been as open as they have been since WWII. Now I know that one reason could be that countries are becoming more technologizied, but that is not the point.

I have also heard rumors that the US forces found something in Germany at the end of WWII, which started Operation Paperclip. I can't remember where I found it but I'll post it if I find it.

I don't know about you, but I see the connection between this. It is basically the only reason why I think Paperclip even came about. I think the US found something, and wanted the Nazi scientists to work for them because they were already working in progress. Any ideas or do you think my idea is trash.

It probably had to do with the atomic bomb. The Roswell connection is interesting. Nobody knows for sure what exactly the Nazi's were working on. You should read the novel Area 51, its pretty interesting and Operation Paperclip has a bit of involvement.

Well this is an interesting correlation you have drawn here. It is widely known that the Nazi's were working on advanced saucer designs before the end of the war. Many of the sketches and designs were recovered. Starting to think that maybe this could be tied in as well.

The nazis were working on various rockets (you know the V-2) At that time the USA had nothing and the soviets were trying to snatch their own nazi rocket scientists too. we noticed this, got some nazi rocket scientists of our own so we could build missiles to rivial "ivan reds" (no offence anybody) missiles. the roswell thing in my opinion, is just a couincidence (spelling?)

Originally posted by Paladin327
The nazis were working on various rockets (you know the V-2) At that time the USA had nothing and the soviets were trying to snatch their own nazi rocket scientists too. we noticed this, got some nazi rocket scientists of our own so we could build missiles to rivial "ivan reds" (no offence anybody) missiles. the roswell thing in my opinion, is just a couincidence (spelling?)

Agreed.

The biggest prize besides peace at the end of WWII was Germany's scientists. They were ahead of everyone with regards to Rockets, Jet-Propulsion, engineering, etc.

Operation Paperclip was planned before the end of the war. It's premise was secure those minds at any costs. It was also made easier since the German's were running west to get away from the Soviets.

Hmmm...... Soviet Gulags and forced research vs. nice sunny New Mexico and all the toys you could ever want to play with? Pretty easy choice if you ask me.

Werner Von Braun was certainly a feather in the US's cap. Without him, we probably would have never really gotten the space program off the ground.

[edit on 8-10-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by cyberdude78
It probably had to do with the atomic bomb. The Roswell connection is interesting. Nobody knows for sure what exactly the Nazi's were working on. You should read the novel Area 51, its pretty interesting and Operation Paperclip has a bit of involvement.

The Germans were out and about Roswell, NM during WWII, working on farms, from the several camps that they were interred at during the war. Interestingly enough, some chose to stay (possibly encouraged?) after the war, possibly as cover for the influx of German scientists.

In Roswell today there is a restaurant that caters to those seeking a Bavarian flair� A nice little place called �A Taste of Europe�, totally out of place in New Mexico, and Roswell especially� Quite authentic too (The Goulash with Spaetzle is my favorite).

New Mexico's Prisoner of War Camps.

A brief history of Roswell.

I still can't answer why the Government has become less and less truthful with us since the second World War. I know that one popular reason would be the security of the world, but come on, simple facts are easily distorted these days. I personally think something huge was found in Germany, and the Nazi scientists were needed to continue their research on whatever it was. Again, it is a personal opinion, but it is really the only connection I can make, especially since Germany had some of the greatest scientists of our time.

Well i have to say that if u are interested in this read 'the hunt for zero point' by nick cook. The nazi scientists were working on some very strange stuff some of their equiment remains totally unexplained, even today.
The US reached the main nazi R/D facility first and ceised vast amounts of equipment and data. As for the scientists working on 'the bell project', taken to the forest and executed by the ss and all available paperwork
burned (scientists stashed hoards of documents when they knew the war was ending).

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.mindcontrolforums.com...
www.think-aboutit.com...
www.ufoevidence.org...

Originally posted by Chieftian Chaos
I personally think something huge was found in Germany, and the Nazi scientists were needed to continue their research on whatever it was. Again, it is a personal opinion, but it is really the only connection I can make, especially since Germany had some of the greatest scientists of our time.

The only huge things the allies wanted were the brains behind Germany's rocket and jet-propulsion programs. They pretty much invented and applied "smart bombs" in a few short years as well as having the world's first opertional jet-interceptor. (V1-V2 Rockets and the ME262 Jet-Fighter) Those things were as cutting edge as cutting edge could be in the 1940's. The Allies and the Soviets both knew that whoever had those minds would have the edge in the post-war era.

Originally posted by Chieftian Chaos
I still can't answer why the Government has become less and less truthful with us since the second World War. I know that one popular reason would be the security of the world, but come on, simple facts are easily distorted these days. I personally think something huge was found in Germany, and the Nazi scientists were needed to continue their research on whatever it was. Again, it is a personal opinion, but it is really the only connection I can make, especially since Germany had some of the greatest scientists of our time.

You are right - there was something huge, It was rocket technology and the jet engine.

Rocket technology was especially important/sensitive because of the advent of the atomic weapon. Think about it - most nuclear deterence of all countries today is in the form of missle, and especially ICBM.

This is the technology that allowed it to be possable. Also, it was understood before the end of the war that Russia and the US were going to be the greatest rivals the world had ever seen. It made sense to prevent Russia from getting their hands on any scientist while also getting them to work for us.

EDIT: Just noticed that FaceFirst said almost exactly what I said. Sorry I didn't see your post budy.

[edit on 13-10-2004 by American Mad Man]

Originally posted by Facefirst
The only huge things the allies wanted were the brains behind Germany's rocket and jet-propulsion programs.

This is exactly correct. Operation Paperclip was designed just for that. From a historical standpoint, the OSS was running agents all over Europe looking to find and procure Nazi era technology. It was well advanced and it was a power grab to one, get the technology, and two, get the brains behind it. IMHO the Americans got quite a bit out of the operation. Our space program and ICBM's etc was essentially based on thier findings. Smart people happen everywhere and we all would have developed the technology over time, but if you can jump start things why not.

I disagree with an earlier posters suggestion that Operation paperclip was illegal. It was a government sanctioned operation during a time of crisis that eventually helped win the cold war. How would have things been if say Von Braun or Heisenberg had fallen into the SOviets hands????

The Germans also had an advanced nuclear program. The Trondheim operation in Norway had sabotaged their heavy water production, putting a spanner in the nuclear works. So some of the paperclip imports could hade been tied to the Manhattan project as well.

Originally posted by Corinthas
The Germans also had an advanced nuclear program. The Trondheim operation in Norway had sabotaged their heavy water production, putting a spanner in the nuclear works. So some of the paperclip imports could hade been tied to the Manhattan project as well.

Paperclip actually came to late to influence the Manhatten Project. The scientist that helped all arrived by and large before US involvment in the war. There is some debate how advanced the Nazi bomb project was. Did Heisenberg stall or was he simply unable to progress his research due to the constant bombing that was going on. The Heavy Water project was a blow, but Germany simply could not develop the facilites to produce enough plutonium or enriched uranium to make a bomb work.

I had heard somewhere that Germany was probably 6 months away from their first A-Bomb at the end of the war. Interestingly enough the Secret Weapons of WWII expansion pack for the game Battlefield 1942 features a raid on the Telemark heavy water facility. I've also heard that the AK-47 supposedly has a lot in common with some German assult rifle. A bit suspicious, perhaps a Soviet version of Paperclip. Anybody ever hear of German guided missle programs. Supposedly they produced an IR guided missle. Perhaps that had to do with Paperclip. Another thing is that supposedly a few German scientists got shipped of to the Dulce facility for something, apparently chemical weapons projects were involved.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
I had heard somewhere that Germany was probably 6 months away from their first A-Bomb at the end of the war. Interestingly enough the Secret Weapons of WWII expansion pack for the game Battlefield 1942 features a raid on the Telemark heavy water facility. I've also heard that the AK-47 supposedly has a lot in common with some German assult rifle. A bit suspicious, perhaps a Soviet version of Paperclip. Anybody ever hear of German guided missle programs. Supposedly they produced an IR guided missle. Perhaps that had to do with Paperclip. Another thing is that supposedly a few German scientists got shipped of to the Dulce facility for something, apparently chemical weapons projects were involved.

Well I heard somewhere that Germany was months away from finishing a weapon that would turn the war in their favor, and if the Allies weren't as fast as they were they would have lost the war. I don't know if that is the type of weapon your talking about, quite frankly i don't know what type of weapon they were making. But they did have an interest into the flying saucers. Also of interest were the "foo fighters" seen by Allied planes in WWII. I don't know if these are German or not, but the Allies were told to engage the foo fighters if they came in contact with them. I might be getting off subject, but Germany did have something huge in the mix that was thwarted by the Allies.

Originally posted by Chieftian Chaos
Well I heard somewhere that Germany was months away from finishing a weapon that would turn the war in their favor, and if the Allies weren't as fast as they were they would have lost the war

Based on the research that I have done, The Germans were not as close as people would believe. From the damage done to the Heavy Water plant, to the relentless bombing of Germany, they never even got tot he crude mock up stage. Now we can debate the fact that Heisenberg may or may have not stalled the project, but they were never as close as people thought. Remeber that alot of the scientist in the Manhattan project fled Nazi Germany before the war also played into it.


FredT

Originally posted by cyberdude78
I've also heard that the AK-47 supposedly has a lot in common with some German assult rifle. A bit suspicious, perhaps a Soviet version of Paperclip...

And the misstery is disolved, mp43 the first german assault rifle.

German weapons ww2

It makes u wonder what else has been ripped off from the nazi empire.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
I've also heard that the AK-47 supposedly has a lot in common with some German assult rifle. A bit suspicious, perhaps a Soviet version of Paperclip...

Kalashnakov denies it to this day and the weapons do use different systems, but the resemblence is uncanny. I saw that crazy R.Lee Ermy guy on the History Channel firing one. Thank god that the higher-up Nazi's screwed up and did not issue that weapon en masse.

[edit on 18-10-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Anybody ever hear of German guided missle programs. Supposedly they produced an IR guided missle. Perhaps that had to do with Paperclip. Another thing is that supposedly a few German scientists got shipped of to the Dulce facility for something, apparently chemical weapons projects were involved.

The V1 and V2 rockets were both "smart" bombs. They were the first weapons that guided themselves to their targets. I believe they used radio beacons to guide themselves. As for IR, I don't know, but I doubt it. That was quite a bit beyond tha capabilities of the time.

[edit on 18-10-2004 by Facefirst]