Multiple witness UFO cases: the hoaxes?

Originally posted by Thunda

Travis Walton had his life ruined by this experience- hes had to put up with everyone and their dog calling him a liar his entire life- sorry, the odd minor pay-out for telling his story in no way covers it.

I don't believe for one moment it ruined his life. Walton has pushed the story and kept it in the public domain for 37 years! He was even on the latest episode of Chasing UFOs.

Very few people him a liar. Many people believe him which is why he can still sell tickets to his conference appearances.

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by Thunda

Travis Walton had his life ruined by this experience- hes had to put up with everyone and their dog calling him a liar his entire life- sorry, the odd minor pay-out for telling his story in no way covers it.

I don't believe for one moment it ruined his life. Walton has pushed the story and kept it in the public domain for 37 years! He was even on the latest episode of Chasing UFOs.

Very few people him a liar. Many people believe him which is why he can still sell tickets to his conference appearances.

Well, you seem really convinced that Travis is living off the fat of the land on his unpleasant experience! Must have used some of those enormous payouts to bribe the rest of the crew to keep quiet. 'Few people call him a liar'? What? He has been continuously accused of lying since the day he reappeared.

Originally posted by Thunda

Well, you seem really convinced that Travis is living off the fat of the land on his unpleasant experience!

No idea how much money he has made over the years from his books, film, tv shows and annual conference appearances but if the whole episode is a hoax then he didn't have an unpleasant experience.

Must have used some of those enormous payouts to bribe the rest of the crew to keep quiet.

Why would he need to bribe all the crew if five of them believe he was or can't prove he wasn't abducted? Wasn't he once arrested for some kind of financial fraud several years before the incident which indicates he was willing to deceive in order to gain money?

'Few people call him a liar'? What? He has been continuously accused of lying since the day he reappeared.

Sure he has, but only by a few adversaries. Philip Klass was probably his greatest nemesis but it's not easy to name other debunkers who accuse him of outright lying without resorting to Google. When he appears at a conference he'll have several hundred believers listening to his story.

"Why would he need to bribe all the crew if five of them believe he was or can't prove he wasn't abducted? Wasn't he once arrested for some kind of financial fraud several years before the incident which indicates he was willing to deceive in order to gain money?"

Do you have a source for that claim?

Wait, what? A few posts ago you were claiming that three people from the logging crew were in on the 'hoax'. Surely, if they havent profited from the incident, and if they knew it was a hoax (because you claim they took part in it), and they see Travis getting rich from 'all this money' from these 'books, TV and conference appearances', wouldnt they want their share? They would have kept quiet all these years? You cant have it both ways- either they knew and took part in the hoax or they didnt.....

Also- "only called a liar 'by a few adversaries'"? Many people- some quite high profile (Klass being one)- went out of their way to try and prove Walton a fake, and he and his family were put through all kinds of aggresive accusations and questioning. And we have to go all the way to Google to get their names? Ooooh, thats well beyond my (or 99% of the planets) abilities.

Multiple people (even people seemingly unconnected to each other) being involved is a UFO hoax could be something like a flash mob. It could simply be just a well orchestrated prank.

SGiP- I thought for the purposes of this thread, we had agreed that the witnesses had to be 'in' on the hoax, ie, hoaxers themselves.

The trouble with your definition is that many UFO incedents have multiple witnesses, and many are argued as to whether they are genuine or not, so that if the sightings turn out to be a hoax, the witnesses at best have 'misidentified' the phenomenon, not hoaxed it.

Originally posted by Thunda
"Why would he need to bribe all the crew if five of them believe he was or can't prove he wasn't abducted? Wasn't he once arrested for some kind of financial fraud several years before the incident which indicates he was willing to deceive in order to gain money?"

Do you have a source for that claim?

In interviewing Walton before the exam began, McCarthy extracted two admissions from him: First, that he had smoked marijuana a few times, but had never used the drug regularly, and secondly, that he and Mike Rogers' younger brother had committed check fraud a few years earlier by altering payroll checks. It was his only serious brush with the law – Walton completed two years probation without further incident – but Walton remained deeply embarrassed about the check fraud episode.

source

Wait, what? A few posts ago you were claiming that three people from the logging crew were in on the 'hoax'. Surely, if they havent profited from the incident, and if they knew it was a hoax (because you claim they took part in it), and they see Travis getting rich from 'all this money' from these 'books, TV and conference appearances', wouldnt they want their share? They would have kept quiet all these years? You cant have it both ways- either they knew and took part in the hoax or they didnt.....

I suggested two members of the logging crew could be in on it - Walton and Rogers. The third person who may have been involved, Walton's brother, Duane, wasn't part of the crew. Who knows how Travis divided up the monies that the case generated. And lets not forget that none of the logging crew witnesses actually saw Walton get abducted. They only saw bright lights and Walton fall to the ground. Rogers quickly took them from the scene and waited around for a while before driving back to find that Walton was gone! Almost like the distraction and reveal of a stage magician.

reply to post by torsion


Oh, I see, - he admitted 'altering a payroll check'. Thanks for that. At least you provided a source. Wonder why he chose to admit that but not the enourmous hoax you accuse him of? Anyway- thanks, I did not know that

Right, so you are going with 'some of the logging crew were in on the 'hoax''. Ok, so we are to believe then that, out of the 'huge sums of money' he has deviously earned from his 'lucrative' book deals and the many, many TV appearences, he has paid off his two partners to keep quiet for all these years? I mean, they must have been pretty clever, rigging up that believable flying saucer to hover over the trees 30 miles up a logging track, and that light beam that struck Walton- suppose they rigged that off a truck battery too? Wow, these guys are so talented at special effects, yet they choose to work as lumberjacks? Guess they must just like the outdoors!

Look, Torsion, you obviously have some beliefs about Travis Walton, but Im afraid I dont share them. I think that after all these years, if this was an incredibly well carried out hoax, we would have heard by now. Remember, they were looking at murder charges initially- wheres the motivation for keeping up the sham for the two other hoaxers? Either way, I think we are just going to have to agree to differ on this one.

Originally posted by Thunda
SGiP- I thought for the purposes of this thread, we had agreed that the witnesses had to be 'in' on the hoax, ie, hoaxers themselves.

The trouble with your definition is that many UFO incedents have multiple witnesses, and many are argued as to whether they are genuine or not, so that if the sightings turn out to be a hoax, the witnesses at best have 'misidentified' the phenomenon, not hoaxed it.

Right. I was only describing one scenario. It is possible for innocent witnesses to all misidentify something.

Here's another golden oldie hoax, a partnership between two Scandanavians, Hans Gustafsson and Stig Rydberg from 1958. They told a tale of a near-abduction by some gelatinous aliens. They were successful in their deception and managed to launch a small speaking tour around it. The legend of thier encounter is repeated as fact in books such as Strangers From The Skies by Brad Steiger. The two never publicly revealed their hoax, but had admitted it to family and confederates.

This case is discussed briefly in the new book UFOs and Government, which mentions that it was one of the first cases where hypnosis was used as an investigative tool.