I think, therefore I AM

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Peopledo not endure torture and death to preserve a lie.

If they don't know it is a lie, they do!

Suicide bombers come to mind. All the Christians who were burned alive, they come to mind, too. Just because they believe it doesn't mean it's true!

Suicide bombers are not eye-witnesses to what they are hoping to achieve upon death. Christ's disciples were eyewitnesses to His resurrection. Apples to oranges.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Tell me about this blasphemous detail regarding two half brothers. I like blasphemy.

Blasphemous? Mary had natural children with Joseph. Two of Christ's half-brothers wrote epistles of the NT. James and Jude. Four of His half-brothers are listed in scripture.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The 12 disciples are metaphors for the 12 constellations but I'm not sure about his half brothers. You keep taking what the bible says as literal, word for word fact. You are oblivious to its metaphorical undertones.

Peter's tomb an ossuary have been found, John is buried in Ephesus. Paul in Rome. Polycarp was a direct disciple of John and Clement a disciple of Peter. Have you ever looked at Fox's Book of Martyrs before? Even hostile sources confirm the martyrdom and historicity of the apostles.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Also, if Jesus had brothers and sisters, who were their mothers? Mary was a virgin her whole life so that leaves her out of the equation, and if they were his siblings on his fathers side then that is impossible, because Jesus was gods only begotten son.

She wasn't a virgin her whole life. The Bible mentions four of Christ half-brothers by name and also said He had hLf-sisters. James and Jude authored NT epistles. Joseph and Mary had many children after Christ was born. Jewish weddings are not complete until consummation in the bridegroom chamber.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


God is the universe and everything within it, including you and me. The sun is the offspring, or son/sun of god.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


But these suicide bombers still died for their religion did they not? They did this because they really believed they would have virgins waiting on the other side.

You believe that islam is a lie correct? These bombers died for their beliefs in islam and the Duran, so why would it be any different for your religion and its followers?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

God is the universe and everything within it, including you and me. The sun is the offspring, or son/sun of god.

That's called "Pantheism".

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

But these suicide bombers still died for their religion did they not? They did this because they really believed they would have virgins waiting on the other side.

You believe that islam is a lie correct? These bombers died for their beliefs in islam and the Duran, so why would it be any different for your religion and its followers?

Sure they did, but they died because of something someone else told them, not as eyewitnesses. The apostles died deaths as martyrs for refusing to deny Christ had risen from the dead. If He had not and had not appeared to them they would not have endured horrible tortures and deaths for refusing to recant their testimony. Khalid Sheik Muhammad squealed after 20 seconds of just being waterboarded.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


And those eyewitness accounts are based on hearsay.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And those eyewitness accounts are based on hearsay.

No. "Eyewitness" is a first-hand account. Heresay would be a second-hand account.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So those eyewitnesses were able to write about there torture and eventual death after the fact? That's very impressive.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So those eyewitnesses were able to write about there torture and eventual death after the fact? That's very impressive.

No. They were eyewitnesses to the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. What they were murdered for.. refusing to recant after torture. Read "Fox's Book of Martyrs".

reply to post by NOTurTypical


And where does the information of them being the eyewitnesses of the crucifixion come from?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And where does the information of them being the eyewitnesses of the crucifixion come from?

From them. The same testimony they were martyred for. Oral and written testimony in the form of the gospels and some epistles.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Fair enough, but I will be stubborn and say that there is no way of knowing if they are the ones who actually wrote the testimonies. Someone a hundred years down the line could have fabricated these testimonies in order to further their agenda.

Do you find that a possibility at all? Or should everyone take what the bible says as fact and without question?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Fair enough, but I will be stubborn and say that there is no way of knowing if they are the ones who actually wrote the testimonies. Someone a hundred years down the line could have fabricated these testimonies in order to further their agenda.

Do you find that a possibility at all? Or should everyone take what the bible says as fact and without question?

Of course not. How do you think I became a Christian? Three names.. Ravi Zacharias, Dr. Chuck Missler, and Dr. Gary Habermas. Be careful with Habermas though, he turned Anthony Flew away from Atheism, I'd suggest having better logic and arguments than he did. Questions are greatly recommended, my motto is my life motto not just in theory but in practice.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Of course not what? That it's not possible that they were fabricated or you should question the bible?

If it's the former then why not?

If it is the latter then that makes no sense, you do not become a christian by questioning the bible.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I didn't say that. You become a Christian when you receive a revelation of Jesus Christ and conviction of your sin by the Holy Spirit. You question the Bible when you're enduring temptation AS a Christian. If you only listen to what the skeptics say instead of researching competent apologists, scholars, and historians then you lose the faith you were given. That's when my motto comes into play.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


There's a difference between believing he did these things, and believing he's going to save our world.

My firm belief is that peace won't come to those who wait for it; you have to work for peace, you have to put out the energy so you get a positive return. Otherwise, nothing will change. So we should be proactive and kick all the ***holes out of their seats of power and raise a new "heaven on earth", founded entirely from love and compassion.

Yeah, I'm too assertive. I would never make a good Christian.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

There's a difference between believing he did these things, and believing he's going to save our world.

My firm belief is that peace won't come to those who wait for it; you have to work for peace, you have to put out the energy so you get a positive return. Otherwise, nothing will change. So we should be proactive and kick all the ***holes out of their seats of power and raise a new "heaven on earth", founded entirely from love and compassion.

Yeah, I'm too assertive. I would never make a good Christian.

You can be a Dominionist. Others are waiting for the King to establish His kingdom. And there is nothing wrong with promoting peace, that's the essence of Christianity.