The Bright and Morning Star "Mary" Queen of Heaven and husband Allah

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

I think I already found a more accurate answer. If you scroll up, you will see it just above your response to me. Considering all the other parallels, That explanation makes more sense.

It says in the Quran that Allah created the whole universe, which includes the stars, earth and the moon etc The main message of the Quran is to worship ONE god, creator of the universe. It says several times to not worship idols/objects including the moon. Yet for some reason you decide to avoid all of this evidence proving that Muslims don't worship the moon.

Edit: looking closer at your comment it seems your actually agreeing with a comment that is suggesting that Islam is the devil appearing before some sort of reckoning.........

www.abovetopsecret.com...

P.S your belief that Mary shouldn't be treated as a deity is exactly what Muslims believe too.

edit on 28-10-2012 by _Phoenix_ because: (no reason given)

Evidence? Here is some for you:

link

Which comment, exactly? On what page? I hunted through six, since you didn't link to any that I actually have a comment on. If you want an explanation, link to the correct page, as I am not searching an entire thread because you failed to provide the proper link.

reply to post by dave13


That has got to be the most unsupported crock of manure I have ever read. Any sources for that nonsense? Opinions aren't sources.

Defeat of Jesus? Keep dreaming! That will NEVER happen. I have bet my eternal fate on that. So, for the record, have you.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


1. The flood was not to destroy. It was to renew. 40 days. 40 nights. 40 weeks. All the same. You didn't think about that one did you? It is not a flood. It is gestation and birth.

2. The morning star is Venus. Women are from Venus (LOLz). Lucifer is another name for Venus. Yep. Lucifer is a woman. Lucifer is a goddess, not a cross dresser.

3. The O is the female. The + is her mature son. When the O has a diameter drawn through it, splitting it in two, it is representing the Immaculate Conception, the Separation of the World Parents. When the diameter is drawn as a T inside the O it is representing the Birth of the Hero. When the T moves outside the O and looks like a + it is representing the mature potent son. And finally, when the + connects to the lower part of the O it represents the Hero doing the nasty with the goddess. The cycle continues....

4. So why do the Jewish god and the Christian god and the Muslim god fight? Well. It is what it is. Many want to rule. Pick a side and be happy.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

You posted a quote from a book I consider totally invalid, and nothing but a copy of other works mixed in with old religions.

Even if you consider the book invalid, the book is still representative of what muslims worship and what they don't. So no point trying to change facts.

As for the data, lonewolf already did a great job showing how you are off there. No need to repeat that.

Lonewolfs "research" involves repeating what has been said by loons such as the guy behind Chick tracts and psuedo-scholars with an agenda. It proves nothing.

P.S - Its also funny how the "evidence" you provide are from Christian sites with an agenda against Islam. I could post refutations from a muslim website but I guess you wouldn't consider that.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
That's the thing about Catholicism that has bothered me the most; the worship of Mary.

Then put your mind to rest ... Catholics do not worship Mary. Never have. Never will.
Click here and read what Catholics REALLY believe

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
"Baptist missionary cult"? Do define that, please. As a Baptist, I am very curious as to the meaning of that phrase.

1 - All religions are technically a CULT by definition. Catholic. Baptist. Muslim. Buddhist ... all of them.

2 - The author of this thread is self professed Baptist missionary and is on a mission to convert as many people as possible to his cult. He uses IGNORANT sources of material in his quest. JACK CHICK TRACTS for example. The author posts out right lies about other faiths and continues to do so even after having been corrected.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
"Hail" is a form of praise.

Hail is also a form of greeting. That is how it is used in this case. It is taken from the bible. It is being used in the same manner as the angel used it in greeting Mary .. Luke 1:28 ,, 'Hail Full of Grace, the Lord is with you ..' If it was good enough for the ArchAngel Gabriel to use when talking to Mary .. it's good enough for everyone else.

In this case, to someone that isn't here, and cannot hear them. Praying to Mary means assuming she can listen. I haven't seen anything in the Bible to indicate that someone already in heaven can hear people still on Earth.

It is definately in the bible. Read here

One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.

And even if it wasn't in the bible .. so what? Not everything that is true is in the bible.
The bible itself says there are a lot more truths out there than are just in the bible.

Plus, Jesus tells us to pray to the Father, not to Mary, or anyone else. Sure, Mary would be saved; that I won't disagree on. Alive, yes, in Heaven. Answering prayers? Can't agree on that point.

Jesus says we are all supposed to pray for each other. Asking others to pray for us is doing exactly what Christ said to do. Asking Mary to pray for us is doing exactly what Christ said to do. "hail full of grace ... pray for us sinners' ... that's what Catholics say to Mary and it's all biblical.

Even if it wasn't. SO WHAT? The bible isn't the 'end all' .. there is MUCH more truth in the world than what is in the bible. Even the bible says so.

Plus, many times, Mary is talked about as though she is on the same level as Jesus.

Poppycock. The Catholic church is VERY clear that Mary, and any other saint, is NOT part of the Holy Trinity - Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Catholic church is VERY clear that Mary, and any other saint, are just created humans and NOT to be worshipped. Mary, and is NEVER worshipped in a Catholic church. NEVER.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - What the Church says about Mary

The Catholic Church decides who is declared a saint, and always has.

The Catholics and the Orthodox have that recognition as part of their belief system. So naturally they will be the ones declaring who is officially a 'saint' (in heaven). SO WHAT? It's part of their belief system. It doesn't effect you Baptists. Let them state who they believe to be in heaven if they wish. (which is what a person declared a 'saint' is .. someone who the church believes is in heaven).

If Catholics start up forced conversions at the point of a sword (or at the end of a gun barrel) or they start flying planes into buildings in an attempt to mass kill people because those people worship differently than they do .. then you should worry. Until then ... relax about the Catholics.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
You posted a quote from a book I consider totally invalid, and nothing but a copy of other works mixed in with old religions.

On that we agree. The Qu'ran is a 'copy and paste' job from the Christians, the Jews, and Zoroastrianism. A really poor copy and paste job. WIth a bunch of misogyny thrown in. There is no proof whatsoever that there is anything supernatural about the so-called revelations claimed in the Quran. However, if people wish to follow what it says, even with the truth of it's origin so obvious .. it's their right.

reply to post by FlyersFan

On that we agree. The Qu'ran is a 'copy and paste' job from the Christians, the Jews, and Zoroastrianism.

Believe what you want to.
The jews can say the same thing about the Christian bible.... that it was a copy-paste of their Torah and that Christianity hijacked the Abrahamic religion and corrupted it with pagan ideas and concepts.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

On that we agree. The Qu'ran is a 'copy and paste' job from the Christians, the Jews, and Zoroastrianism.

Believe what you want to.

It's not a question of 'belief' .. it's a matter of historical record.

The jews can say the same thing about the Christian bible.... that it was a copy-paste of their Torah and that Christianity hijacked the Abrahamic religion and corrupted it with pagan ideas and concepts.

Christians copied the Old Testament from the Jews .. word for word. Uncorrupted. Unlike the Qu'ran which took bits and pieces of the three major religions at the time and perverted what was in them to fit Islams agenda. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the Christians took the Jewish books UNCORRUPTED as their Old Testament. Christianity considers itself to be a continuation of that faith so naturally they'll have the UNCORRUPTED Jewish texts as their Old Testament .. and add a New Testament to them without corrupting the old.

As for your term 'hijacking and corrupting with pagan ideas anad concepts' .. that's exactly what the Quran is. Hijacked from the Jews, Christians and Zoroastrianism .. but twisted and corrupted and interjected with Islams agenda from UNPROVEN so-called 'revelations'.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Well even if we remove the Jack Chick stuff and even the comparison drawn to the catholic church and Islam we still have this whole body of evidence that shows long ago the world became subverted by the mother goddess/sunworshipers.

Taking that overwhelming amount of evidence into account, it is hard to believe that this cult just died out. In fact as has been shown, it is clear that they have been forced to take on the trappings of christainity to survive in some form. Giving mankind the outward appearance of a union compatible mixture of the one time all powerfull "mysteries" and the truth of Jesus Christ.

In fact the last great war that has been fought on this earth, WWII, was a war between two Sun kingdoms, Japan....rising sun....and the Nazis... swastika old old sun symbol...and people that had become enlightened enough to bar religion from direct influence and power sharing in government.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Christians copied the Old Testament from the Jews .. word for word. Uncorrupted.

"uncorrupted"? Then why is it that the Jews don't have your ideas of trinity and man-God?
You copied it word for word, but changed the basic theology with its ideas of trinity and a man being God and stuff.

Hijacked from the Jews, Christians and Zoroastrianism .. but twisted and corrupted and interjected with Islams agenda from UNPROVEN so-called 'revelations'.

As for it being "unproven", thats your personal belief. You weren't around when Mohammad had his visions.
The same can be said about almost anything in the bible as well.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
If Catholics start up forced conversions at the point of a sword (or at the end of a gun barrel) or they start flying planes into buildings in an attempt to mass kill people because those people worship differently than they do .. then you should worry. Until then ... relax about the Catholics.

Allow me to say and not in a judgmental way......but the Catholics dont have to fly planes into anything. They already have so much power and are deep down into the sub zones of the world mind. Just look at the things exposed about them over the last 20 years and yet they are about a firm as ever. The pope dies and just about evey head of state in the world of a representative of same, must go to his funeral.

reply to post by Logarock

Well even if we remove the Jack Chick stuff and even the comparison drawn to the catholic church and Islam we still have this whole body of evidence that shows long ago the world became subverted by the mother goddess/sunworshipers.

Islam clearly defines the concept of God.
It forbids the worship of any created object, declaring it a grave sin. So sun worship is out of the question.

Taking that overwhelming amount of evidence into account, it is hard to believe that this cult just died out

Perhaps it died out... like many other religions.
At least as far as Islam is concerned.... Islam emerged in a region that was plagued with all kinds of idolatry and polytheism... and went on to completely eradicate it. The hardened idolaters became monotheists...worshipers of the God of Abraham.

Unlike Christianity which was tainted by Roman ideas in its early years.... Islam was handled only by Arabs without a foreign influence.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
"uncorrupted"? Then why is it that the Jews don't have your ideas of trinity and man-God?

Because they don't have the New Testament as part of their religion.

You copied it word for word, but changed the basic theology with its ideas of trinity and a man being God and stuff.

:shk: Comeon .. this is BASIC STUFF ...

Christians took the Old Testament .. word for word .. and added the New Testament (of Jesus) within a handful of years of his being alive. They didn't change the Old Testament. They added a New Testament. A whole new religion. Much of the New Testament is first hand accounts of the life and statements of Jesus. The Jews do not accept the New Testament and therefore they do not have the same belief as Christians in a Trinity God and in Jesus being God Incarnate. Much of that is from the New Testament and it doesn't contradict the Old Testament .. unlike the Quran which contradicts it through and through ...

As for it being "unproven", thats your personal belief.

No. It's a matter of record. Muhammad claimed visions. He had NOTHING to back them up .. except the tip of a sword. He did no miracles ... he healed no one ... he didn't multiply the loaves or fishes to feed the hungry .. he didn't raise children from the dead to help grieving parents ... he didn't raise himself from the dead ... etc etc. He was just a guy on a mission to gain power and he did so at the point of a sword and by claiming God wanted him to. And people bought it. Sounds a lot like some modern day power-hungry politicians, doesn't it??

You weren't around when Mohammad had his visions..

No one was around when he had visions .. because he did not have any.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Unlike Christianity which was tainted by Roman ideas in its early years.... Islam was handled only by Arabs without a foreign influence.

Dude ... All of Islam is foreign influence. Everything in the Qu'ran is taken from the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians. Taken and tweeked and sprinkled with misogyny and Muhammads poltiical agenda. Even the pagan influence is in Islam ... from throwing stones at the devil to running between the hills .. Pagan influences in Islam

Originally posted by Logarock
but the Catholics dont have to fly planes into anything. They already have so much power ...

Honestly .. it looks like the 'power days' of the Catholic church are long gone.
No one listens to what comes out of Rome .. not even Catholics.
They make euro-centric statements and no one listens .. not even the Euros ...
They make statements about 'have more children' .. no one listens.
They are pretty wimpy ..

There is an element in the Cardinals ... corrupt to the core .. who run the Vatican Bank.
Murderers. Unholy and ungodly.
But the Vatican and the Catholic Church itself are basically broke.
The holdings of the Vatican Bank, which is kinda separate from the church itself, are in question.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Because they don't have the New Testament as part of their religion.

Thats because they think it contradicts the OT.
God is one.... a man cannot be divine.... one cannot die for the sins of others. etc.

Much of that is from the New Testament and it doesn't contradict the Old Testament .. unlike the Quran which contradicts it through and through ...

The Koran doesn't contradict the OT in the sense that it does not teach the silliness of the trinity, human divinity and the idea that a man can die for the sins of others.

Apart from the issue of the messiah, there is not much of a difference between Judaism and Islam.... which is why Jews can technically pray in a mosque when they cant find a synagogue but will never step into a church.

Christians make the mistake of thinking they are closely related to the religion of the Jews, but the truth is the Jews and Muslims are closer to each other.

No. It's a matter of record. Muhammad claimed visions. He had NOTHING to back them up .. except the tip of a sword. He did no miracles ... he healed no one ... he didn't multiply the loaves or fishes to feed the hungry .. he didn't raise children from the dead to help grieving parents ... he didn't raise himself from the dead ... etc etc. He was just a guy on a mission to gain power and he did so at the point of a sword and by claiming God wanted him to. And people bought it. Sounds a lot like some modern day power-hungry politicians, doesn't it??

Different prophets. Different missions. Mohammad did not have to be like Jesus to be recognized as a prophet... and Jesus did not have to be a successful warrior to be a prophet / messiah. You are making these imaginary distinctions.

Also, for a man to rebel against Arabia's ruling elite of idolatrous culture required guts of steel. Mohammad had those and despite having the emperor of Arabia, Mohammad did not live in mansions or palaces.... like your power hungry rulers and politicians. That speaks volumes of his character. You may refuse to see it, but its a fact.

Dude ... All of Islam is foreign influence. Everything in the Qu'ran is taken from the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians.

It cant be "foreign" because Mohammad was a descendant of Kedar... son of Ishmael... son of Abraham.
So Mohammad is from the nation of Abraham.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Your link is from a site that operates on an anti-Islam bias.

I will not accept that as any "evidence" for the same reason that you wont accept links to sites that operate on an anti-Christian bias.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
God is one.... a man cannot be divine.... one cannot die for the sins of others. etc.

Says you.
Jesus .. true man and true God. God came down from heaven ... John 6:38
Jesus own words "I came down from heaven ... "

The Koran doesn't contradict the OT ...

yes it does.

the truth is the Jews and Muslims are closer to each other.

VERY TRUE.

Different prophets. Different missions.

Muhammad wasn't a prophet .. he was a politician who killed people and who claimed visions from God in order to subdue the masses. That's all.

That speaks volumes of his character.

Muhammads character .. okay .. it is well documented that he was a caravan thief and murderer as well as a misogynist. Wonderful 'character' ..

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Your link is from a site that operates on an anti-Islam bias.

facts are facts. Throwing stones at the devil comes from pagan rituals. Running between the hills comes from the pagan religions. Everything in the Qu'ran came from th Jews, Christians and Zorostarians but got their own little twist on it. That's not 'anti-Islam bigotry'. Those are the just the historical facts ... deal with it.