You want proof of flying saucers? This is it!

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

there are plenty of studies that have been done - studies that prove reliability or lack thereof....its not just people mouthing off or telling a story to some news reporter...there are court cases, arrests, legal studies, etc to back up the reliability or lack thereof of witness testimony.

I certainly would not argue for the infallibility of witness testimony, in fact I don't think I even mentioned it. My point is that requiring "hard evidence" before accepting the reality of any particular proposition is not really the way we work in our everyday lives. We accept what people say at face value all the time, because if we had to independently verify everything we heard or read before we could confidently assimilate it into our paradigm, we would never "know" anything. So we take shortcuts.

I believe that evolution occurs via natural selection, but I don't have any "evidence" that I can use to back up my belief. I've read a few books on the topic, and I have a general sense of how it's supposed to work. And the whole thing makes a lot of sense, and from what I've read and what I've heard people say all the scientists believe it - and surely they know more about it than I do. And I've heard that there is evidence that indicates the truth of it. So in lieu of actually examining the evidence for the theory of evolution by natural selection, I just accept it, having heard what I've heard and read what I've read. I accept that these people "found" the Higgs boson too, but I'm sure I couldn't understand the evidence if I tried.

Point being, in our discussions here let's try not to pretend that we are Science incarnate. We're mere human beings, and the vast majority of us don't "know" squat.

Awww. but the kiddies loved it. They were the objective. Look at Zimbabwe. Has anyone got any doubts that the kids don't need to lie? That their hearts aren't full of spite? How do you account for all the similar testimony and drawings? So they are kids, yah... so they are kids.

I believe them before I believe any of the adults. Especially after being "advised" of their rights.
Kids don't lie.


62 school children witness UFOs in Zimbabwe

A Sighting of a UFO of any kind is just that...a sighting of an Unidentified Flying Object. The object could be E.T. in construction or it could very well be a U.S. Air Force Project. But you can never be sure from just a sighting.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by Neeka
I find stories like this fascinating! The fact that so many witnesses are telling the same story so many years later makes it more credible. I wonder what happened to poor Tanya???????

Tanya. Yes I suspect Tanya saw too much, maybe the occupants of the craft? I certainly think somebody should look into what happened to her.

Hi Jessie, Richard and Joann.

Thank you for your messages and your queries re "the girl in the ambulance". There has been some discussion about this before on this site and also on the Westall Incident's Facebook page (see: www.facebook.com...). Indeed, many people have asked about the student, Tanya, who is mentioned in the story by one of the witnesses, and it is certainly one of the more intriguing and baffling aspects to the Westall story.

The director, Rosie Jones, has been in contact with Tanya and is continuing to follow-up various leads resulting from that contact, and in relation to the relevant memories shared by Jacquie in the film, and by other witnesses. (Other witnesses have stories very similar to the one shared in the film by Jacquie.) In short, Tanya is alive and well and lives now in Sydney, and we are hoping to hear more about what she remembers about the flying saucer incident in the near future. Due to age and ill-health, Tanya's parents may not be able to shed much more light on events, but we are keeping the channels of communication open as best we can in relation to Tanya's story, and the story of at least two other girls who apparently were also adversely affected (at least at the time) by what they saw/experienced. One of those girls has been contacted by me, the other I have not yet been able to locate. In relation to the ambulance officers, the Ambulance Service of Victoria has informed me that records dating back that far have been destroyed. I have not given up on tracking down the original ambulance officers who attended, but it's not an easy task. I was, however, recently able to locate the apparently last-surviving fireman from the Melbourne Metropolitan Fire Brigade station which responded that day at Westall (a Country Fire Authority crew responded from another station as well)...so there's still hope!

from the yahoo groups posted earlier.

Originally posted by mithrawept
If this was a test of some kind of secret human made craft, would you really risk exposure by dropping by a school. Doesn't really make sense.

Either a mass illusion/hysteria or something unworldly I would suggest.

Maybe the pilots were from a nearby air base and had kids at the school, thaught it'd be cool to drive/fly by and honk the horn...lol

But ya, I agree with you. If the craft were terestrial in nature, they wouldn't go landing in public places for all to see, then rush in and make a fuss to shut everyone up.

So one girl was also carted off in a ambulance and never seen again... ooook, what did her perents have to say, why is there no follow up on that part of the story. Did the perents ask the school where she was, did they dissappear too...lol too many things in stories like this that never add up.

Fascinating that seemingly no amount of eyewitness testimony is sufficient, but all over the world billions of people believe in a multiply-translated ancient document regaling us with tales of burning bushes (one witness), virgin births with supernatural fathers (witnesses? Dicey.) etc.

Try to find some proof in the bible or the koran or any other religious document. But of course, 'belief' in this event is sufficient, especially when there's a critical mass of believers...

Originally posted by signalfire
Fascinating that seemingly no amount of eyewitness testimony is sufficient, but all over the world billions of people believe in a multiply-translated ancient document regaling us with tales of burning bushes (one witness), virgin births with supernatural fathers (witnesses? Dicey.) etc.

Try to find some proof in the bible or the koran or any other religious document. But of course, 'belief' in this event is sufficient, especially when there's a critical mass of believers...

Wait, are we talking about a UFO case, or the bible here?


Witness testimony from all these children is enough for me to say they saw -something-. It was definitely a UFO -to them- ... What it was is the real question.

Why can't we get past that part, and try to analyze the facts and evidences we CAN find?

So THAT is your real super duper awesome proof? Sorry guy, it's like any other thread and any other case - no real evidence, the same vague and stories no actual proof. Misleading title.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


We (the citizens) can demand responses for those in power that do manage the state's organizations in place that have not only the obligation but the duty to protect but inform us the public, the tax payer, the voter.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
While i think most people here appreciate the effort you went to it doesn't make up for the fact you claimed to have 'the' proof but provided none at all.

The proof is that a whole school of kids plus teacher staff visibly and even touched two flying saucers (spacecraft). That many witnesses cannot be disproved, especially the children.

Like the OP said, if this was a murder case, a whole school of witnesses makes a pretty strong case don't you think?

For what it's worth, I think that this is one of the most interesting UFO cases that I have ever heard about. I only became aware of it a year ago when someone else posted a thread with a link to the documentary, and I am very glad that I took the time to watch it. Irrespective of whether there is any "proof" or not in the documentary, I don't think that anyone can argue that this isn't an extremely interesting case. Hopefully, we will learn more about what happened to Tanya, and/or anyone else who was significantly affected by the encounter.

Originally posted by Druscilla
The infamous witch trials of Salem and other places consisted primarily of witness testimony.
This is why we require more concrete evidence in real criminal cases that just witness testimony.

Perfect analogy... except for the MANY problems which invalidate it.

The most obvious difference being that the "spectral evidence" admitted by the Salem court in the 1690's -- pre-scientific revolution, practically speaking -- was the most common type of 'witchcraft' evidence accepted, and it consisted usually of only of a *single person* claiming to be harassed in his or her dreams by the spirit / spectre of the accused witch. Now, yes, multiple people might claim to have had their own dreams and independently accuse the same 'witch', but... it's still apples and oranges with respect to the Westall UFO. In Westall we have multiple witnesses (some independent) to a single event, while Salem mostly presents a case of multiple, separated witnesses to *multiple discrete, temporally- and geographically-distinct events*... which were admittedly the dreams or visions of individuals.

Westall also has the not insignificant advantage of testimony and newspaper stories from that very day which immediately documented the SINGLE, viewed-by-many event....

Oh, also... some of the Salem witches, IIRC, were also convicted of witchcraft based on things the 'witches' didn't even deny, like wearing non-standard clothing ... i.e., they did not look puritan enough.

The point is, Salem is not about multiple witnesses to a single event mis-perceiving that same event or colluding to make sure their stories as to that single event all agreed . But Westall, you seem to be saying, IS something along those lines? You're at least implying that, no? I'm with you in that this is not "proof" in the strict sense, but it seems as if you think all of those people at that school (and witnesses outside of it) were simply mistaken, or that they all were/are just lying? If not either of those, then any reasonable person would have to label this evidence somewhat compelling.

And does the metaphysical / pre-scientific nature of the beliefs that the Salem judges let infect their rules of evidence bother you? Spectral evidence was "paranormal" even to the religious folk back then. Yet UFOs do not have to be paranormal at all, because our modern, scientific society and the objectively-determined properties of our cosmos already perfectly well incorporate the idea of actual, physical probes from other intelligences having stopped by Earth. Big difference.

There are of course other problems with your analogy, but... who has the time? I wrote only this much just because I'd hate to see a pithy and apparently clever reply such as yours accepted at face value by the easily misled, when, once it's actually examined with any depth, its status as a false analogy become obvious.

You can do better than the above post of yours, Druscilla. Try!! Read some of the real UFO evidence and take a break from youtube.... And while Westall is not the 'proof' the thread title claims, the OP does highlight the important fact that, at some point, as the number of diverse and independent witnesses increases, the line between "evidence" and "proof" does begin to blur. Westall is not "proof", no, but on the other hand, to billions of people, neither would be the UFO / White House Lawn scenario, even if captured on camera....

reply to post by VoidHawk


SnF

I see so few good new threads these days. This one is an example of what I want to see. S&F. Now to watch the video on page 1.

Originally posted by xpoq47
I see so few good new threads these days. This one is an example of what I want to see. S&F. Now to watch the video on page 1.

I am entirely baffled, a few years back i read MOST "UFO Books" know all the classic cases, watched countless shows and documentaries - i NEVER heard of this case before.

This is a very interesting case, and yes i agree, i wish more posts were like this.

The two key ingredients to this story are the where abouts of the girl "Tanya" & why has anybody failed to enquire about the photographs taken by Barbara Robbins, the chemistry teacher ?

Apparently she was " snapping away " with her camera , so what happened to the photographs ?
Were the contents of the film taken from her ? I really don't understand why nobody has followed this up ?

The photographs could blow this incident wide open .

I like the way you've done this but we still are a long way from actual hard proof. I honestly believe that someone/thing on this planet is further advanced than we will ever know. When the stealth planes were first unveiled I think alot of peoples jaws dropped including mine.....lets wait and see

Unfortunately, even with all the evidence surrounding this event, most of the general public's conscious mind automatically goes to "Fake. Didn't happen. Nothing to see here." Thank you MSM conditioning (whether intentional or not). Any time you see a huge event like this, you see the politicians, public representatives and news anchors all laughing or making light of the situation.

Don't expect an event short of a UFO landing on the White House lawn to sway public opinion and prejudice.

I have been in touch with the documentary maker Shane L J Ryan , to see if he has come up with any more information regarding the photographs taken by Barbara Robbins, the chemistry teacher.
I will keep you all posted when he gets back to me