Are You An American Citizens? Show Your Papers

reply to post by azbowhunter


Actually yes you should complain about that too. DUI/DWI checkpoints are a violation of the Constitution.

I also realize that the Federal Government has failed in securing our boarders. Only an idiot would fail to see that, but the answer is not to stop people who have not committed a crime and ask them to prove their citizenship.

reply to post by seagull


So, voting is your answer. Got ya.

Why are you so upset? The fact that people commented on a thread makes them somehow by default not involved? How do you know anything about anyone who commented on this? For that matter, if the fact you posted on the same forum thereby making you a moaner sitting on a computer is lost on you, I feel bad for your superiority complex.

CJ

Guilty

Until proven innocent

Not for nothing, but profiling works....just look at Israels airport security. granted it pisses people off, but when we're working off of stereotypes there's some truth there. And they don't even need to feel you up or irradiate you to be effective.

Think of it like this....if someone from Arabia who is dressed like a terrorist never hijacked a single plane in history ever...they wouldn't stop people in Israel matching that description would they?

If Mexicans never hopped a fence, then they wouldn't be stopping Mexicans would they? Im sure if Canadians were the ones migrating south, they'd have more of a reason to harass you for saying "eh" and being white.

Point is, there is truth in stereotyping, and profiling while a primitive narrow way of weeding out the baddies is a horrid experience, it seems to be more effective than throwing all citizens of a country under the same bus just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt.

America is full of a buncha pussies who don't want to get their feelings hurt, so now everyone is special and gets to be treated with kid gloves because lord forbid we take any personal responsibility for the matter at hand. And we don't want to offend anyone now do we?

If this indeed turns into Nazi Germany, I suggest you watch the Pianist so you can get a refresher of what to expect. Complacent citizens of a country are just as guilty as the monsters who committed these crimes against them.

Why couldn't American citizens be more like the Greeks?

Anyone who would give up freedom in the place of security deserves neither.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Upset? I suppose so, or frustrated might be a better word...

Voting is only part of the entirety of the process. Perhaps even the least of it. Voting is, afterall, supposedly the culmination of the entire process.

When I see people, and rightfully so, getting up in arms about problems around them, but saying, or implying; that we're helpless to stop it, or fix it...I get a tad worked up. Upset, even... We are far from helpless to stop anything involving politics, but only if we're willing to stop being helpless, or apathetic...

So, that's the why of my upset, or frustration...

Just a question. What would happen if the guy refusing to show the papers was an American citizen but looked Hispanic ? Would the officers react in a different way? If so. What options do the Hispanic citizen has?

Originally posted by marsoto
Just a question. What would happen if the guy refusing to show the papers was an American citizen but looked Hispanic ? Would the officers react in a different way? If so. What options do the Hispanic citizen has?

Yes they would. They would slam that spanish guy down and cuff him.

You know after reading the thread, I got to thinking about it, and yes, it does seem like what the OP is stating is true anymore.

Think about what it was like before the automobile and so many paved roads.

I don't remember any stores about the sheriff and his deputy setting up a road block so they could stop someone on their horse and check them for a RUI (Riding Under the Influence).

"I'm sorry Duddly Dun, but we're gonna need to see your Riders License, Horse registration, and proof of Horse Insurance."

Illegal Aliens back then? Hell before Ellis Island, immigrating to America was basically pack your bags and hope you had enough money for the ship ride over.

The whole idea was that people could come here, live the way they wanted to with out fear of being persicuted. You could go where you wanted to. No one had a "ID card" of any kind. Heck, prior to president Grant, anyone could ride up to the White House and go on in.

But being stopped and asked to show proof of your citizenship? I'm sure many would say: Oh no. That would be in places like Nazi Germany or the former Soviet Union. We don't do that here in the US.

But think about it. Actually we are. Those DUI road checks......getting a drivers license in the first place......just getting a job. I've seen many job applications asking if you're a US citizen (got to take that Social Security out now).

Things have changed a lot in the last 150 years I understand.

But I do have to wonder: did they change for the better?

He did the right thing by refusing to comply, and should also have memorized the cases that make any legislation that would allow this illegal and unconstiutional. There has to probable cause to stop you, ie. your description and/or vehicle matches an armed robber. And then talked to the supervisor and went on his way.

Everyone needs to do that.

Also, making changes, such as not voting for any of the parties or candidates because they are all corrupt, or the least evil one if possible, is not the solution. But it is a part of having integrity nonetheless. But anyone elected that would not do the will of the banking heads would be killed.

The fact is the legislation that is fascist, or based on corporate laws, or any number of things is illegal. Its not law. It has to be tackled by wide awake citizens who speak up, write into their leaders, take it to the media, create their own media, and TAKE IT TO COURT.

Why is this in Highly Speculative category? Doesnt make the slightest sense, nor that it only has 7 flags.

Everyone needs to learn to do this, but memorize some case law about the only stop they can do is for probable cause and that is narrowly defined.

Stand up for the constitution or they win.

reply to post by seagull


Sorry I jumped you a little seagull. I see your point and often I have voiced the same sentiment. I agree that sitting on a computer spouting opinion is a worthless endeavor when it comes to actual change. I agree that we can make a difference, but I am on the fence when it comes to change via voting.

Considering it is impossible to be a viable candidate without millions of dollars (yes there are the very few exceptions), the system is no longer "of the people, for the people" it is "of the rich, for the rich". This does not mean with a tremendous amount of effort we can't change it. It will take the masses getting off tv/internet and opening their eyes. It will take accepting hard truths, accepting difficulties and realizing that we will have to sacrifice.

When one is willing to put the laws and policies of the land in higher regard than the latest apple product, video games, reality tv, keeping up with the joneses, new nordstrom shoes, weekly manicures, $300 hair cuts, being "friends" with their children, social media sites, etc than there can be change. As it stands, the US is bogged down with people who are so immersed in their "culture" that as long as they have these things (or want them) they are doing ok. I know many intelligent people who would much rather do any of the things listed above than actively pursue truth and justice - normally people will stand up for their rights, but only when it has affected them personally. There is a disconnect in this country and I for one believe that the goverment likes it this way and does everything it can to continue it. Fortunately, there are many who realize this - getting them to take action against it is another story. Why? I can't really say.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


No harm, no foul.

Trust me when I say, I've been jumped harder than that here, many times...

The very things you mention, those are the very reasons we need to rethink our laisse faire approach to political involvement in our country.

Step one: Find good, trustworthy candidates.

Step two: Support 'em, elect 'em.

Step three: Watch 'em, so's they remain good and trustworthy office holders.

Step four: If they don't remain trust worthy, unelect 'em.

Step five: Repeat as necessary.

It really isn't that complicated, but it will require us, all of us, to actually do some hard thinking, and some hard work. That's kind of our job as citizens, isn't it?