Oklahoma Rep. Mike Ritze moves for nullification of ObamaCare

Originally posted by seaez

Originally posted by Valhall
Representative Mike Ritze is pushing for the State of Oklahoma to nullify ObamaCare.

www.thenewamerican.com...

There is a very good series of posts on this thread about State's rights to nullification:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here is a good article on the historical argument about the power of the State's to nullify:

www.campaignforliberty.com...

I support this effort by Rep. Ritze 100%. We are not one nation indivisible. That bullcrap was written by the biggest socialist in existence on the eve of the first Civil War and adopted by a pro-Union government as "the pledge of allegiance" in a blatant attempt to shame the growing discord leading to secession.

Stuff it in your invisible indivisible backside. We can do what we want.

Oklahoma...with a gutless governor...may do more than opt out of the health care law, we may opt out of the whole thing! O_O

edit on 7-10-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-10-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

Ohh! By the way... Oklahoma is already maaaaad socialist as they take more federal dollars than they provide into the Union you discredit.

You got a point there, I guess my fear that the door really will hit their ass too hard on the way out is to be realized

reply to post by seaez

did anyone else notice that both DC & Hawaii are higher on that list than Alabama ?
yep, those are 2 system suction cups alright

reply to post by stanats

on a non-political forum?

you are joking right

have you noticed the title of this forum ???
BREAKING Political News
nope, no correlation to a political forum whatsoever

Originally posted by seaez


Ohh! By the way... Oklahoma is already maaaaad socialist as they take more federal dollars than they provide into the Union you discredit. So, if you live there and are anti-socialistic (notice the tense as to not decry everyone must be a socialist because we can entertain social ideologies, we humans are really much more complicated than a singular definition) practices so much, you should move.

Maybe to NY.

OMG...you can't possibly be serious. Did you read that article? It was stating that because people who have paid into the social security system and are now retired and rightfully expect their social security checks won't give up those checks they are getting counted against each state as "funds" paid from the federal government to the state.

WTF? That really shows sense now doesn't it? First, please don't use the largest gaff in social policy ever created by any Democratic president as some type of plastic light sabre child's threat against someone you're bellowing against on a social issue. I've stated numerous times on this very board if I could dig FDR up and bitch slap him for the entire social security/medicare system I'd do it! I would also opt out of social security right now and tell them "thanks for all the fish!" on the thousands of dollars they have already stolen from me in my life and never ask for a penny back IF THEY WOULD JUST STOP STEALING FROM ME FROM HERE ON OUT.

Can't get that stopped. Wonder why I want that? Because muffin-heads like you and whomever wrote that article think it is "federal funds" that should be used for what? To give health care to someone who is of working age and making 133% of the poverty level? Is that why a retired individual is supposed to go without their rightful check after working their entire lives and paying into that wretched system so that the funds can be spent willy-nilly by yet an even grander screwing of the proverbial social pooch?

Take out the social security and medicare checks and tell what the list looks like please. Those are not to be viewed as federal funds available for other wants and desires. They go back to their rightful owners.

According to the data here, which the latest it shows is 2008:

okpolicy.org...

Oklahoma generated a total of $31b in revenue from all sources with $9b of that being federal funds at the state ($5b) and local levels ($4b). 1/3 of that 9b in federal funds was for "health and social services" and the majority of the rest for education and road services. (I note it very interesting that all three of these major federally-funded programs suck really bad. Interesting.)

In a novel and kooky method of doing business the state only spent $27b! wow...who'da thunk you could live within your budget!

Of that $27b spent 37% went to health and social services and 24% to education. 55% of the total was spent at the state level and the rest was at the local levels.

So that means at the state level my state spent $5.5b on health and social services but only received $3b of that from the federal government.

Yeah, we're a real blood tick. I have no idea how the rest of the nation hasn't fallen over from anemia due to the drain we're putting on you.

Oh and look here...here's that whole "income disparity" problem.

visualizingeconomics.com...



hmmm...seems the more you make the higher the percent of the total income tax revenue generated you represent. Now where did I hear that told differently? Let me think, it's right on the tip of my tongue. Oh! I know, from all those folks who claim there needs to be "redistribution of wealth" and starting by taking MORE from FEWER so that MORE can have MORE for NOTHING!

Originally posted by logican
So it really makes me wonder why some people so should be so concerned that healthcare should be readily available to everyone.

As was said before .. it's got nothing to do with healthcare .. it has everything to do with forcing people to buy a product and to put money into an overinflated government that is full of waste, fraud, and abuse. Obama is forcing everyone to buy something that many people simply don't want or can't afford. And then he bloated the IRS (geeeze .. of all agencies to bloat! UGH!) and made them even bigger and wasteful when in fact the IRS should be reduced by a very big margin!

reply to post by stanats

You have just proven you can't (or won't) read what others post. I stated very clearly .. Valhall is a woman and yet you keep calling her a 'he'. Kinda proves that you aren't reading what people post carefully. And when you don't read information carefully ... you come to wrong conclusions.

It seems to me, after reviewing all those revenue and expenditure figures for Oklahoma, there's good forecast for a sustainable self-sufficient GDP. Things would be kind of painful at first for those of us working as we would see an immediate increase in taxes spent to cover the issues currently covered by the pittance we receive from the federal government. But at the same time, being a new country and all, there would be an immediate uplift in jobs created, now wouldn't there? So the pain of the first transition I don't believe would last that long.

We can talk to brother Rick and see if Baja Oklahoma wants to join us. That's a formidable alliance at that point. What with having Houston port and control of a major ground route for goods through the big NAFTA corridor. Tarriffs alone could sustain us.

We, of course, being the generous and strong-hearted Okies we are, would not even consider taking any of the 16 trillion debt that rightfully belongs to the rest of you. You'll have to work out payment plans with the master of your indentured servitude (that would be the government of China by the way. Good news is I hear they are a bit socialist over there....maybe you can get free health care!)

You need to do something quick though. You're bleeding out:

visualizingeconomics.com...

Oh look....we could probably count on Arizona as well.

www.salon.com...

Biltis submitted over 320,000 signatures last night to place on the November ballot a referendum that would allow Arizonans “to reject any federal action that they determine violates the United States Constitution,” as the ballot measure reads. Assuming Arizona’s secretary of state affirms that at least 260,000 signatures are valid, voters will soon be going to polls to consider whether they should empower themselves to nullify federal laws. Given the strength of anti-Washington sentiment in the state, which has developed a reputation for whacky right-wing policy experimentation over the past few years, it seems entirely plausible that the referendum could have a decent chance of passage.

The scheme would provide two ways in which Arizona could opt out of federal laws: Either the state Legislature could pass a law or citizens could collect enough signatures to bring a ballot measure.

Originally posted by DaTroof

Free. Y'know, like how you're free to drive on roads that the state builds, maintains, and employs hundreds to thousands who do so.

Or like the police force who will come to your aid for free, or the fire department/EMTs...

EMTs aren't "free" around here - you pay for them in taxes, then pay for them again if they come to visit. it's about 300 bucks a pop for a pickup and ride.

But wait, those are all paid for by taxes. SOCIALISM!

Maybe not ALL social programs and/or taxes are bad. Just a thought.

Odd how you list LOCAL AND STATE programs in an effort to justify FEDERAL abuses...

Accept that you not having health insurance has nothing to do with me. Having liability car insurance is to protect the person you wrong. You not having health insurance is not an act wronging me.

reply to post by Valhall

Someone not having health insurance could potentially wrong you.. when someone who does not have healthcare walks into an emergency room and can not pay, this drives up costs for everyone else. Also, under Obamacare, Insurance companies can no longer dictate the costs of health coverage. Obamacare benefits everyone at least to some degree.

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman

Accept that you not having health insurance has nothing to do with me. Having liability car insurance is to protect the person you wrong. You not having health insurance is not an act wronging me.

reply to post by Valhall

Someone not having health insurance could potentially wrong you.. when someone who does not have healthcare walks into an emergency room and can not pay, this drives up costs for everyone else. Also, under Obamacare, Insurance companies can no longer dictate the costs of health coverage. Obamacare benefits everyone at least to some degree.

Yeah, I know how the system doesn't work. I'm well aware of it. There are myriad of issues that need to be addressed to fix the health care system. A lot of them have nothing to do with creating a socialized health care system, by the way, but I digress.

You're missing the whole point of the discussion. I'm not saying health care shouldn't be addressed. I'm saying that my state can decide how we want to fix the problem. If you don't live in Oklahoma, you don't get to pick. You can pick in your state. That's the way our government is set up.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by stanats

 

on a non-political forum?

you are joking right

have you noticed the title of this forum ???
BREAKING Political News
nope, no correlation to a political forum whatsoever

Thanks for making my point. I was accused by OP of being a democrat since I disagreed with OP, also OP claimed to be nonpolitical. So you have now proven that OP is political and only posted this to support federal GOP politics and add to the GOP stooge infestation of this formerly alternative topic forum.

Originally posted by stanats

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by stanats

 

on a non-political forum?

you are joking right

have you noticed the title of this forum ???
BREAKING Political News
nope, no correlation to a political forum whatsoever

Thanks for making my point. I was accused by OP of being a democrat since I disagreed with OP, also OP claimed to be nonpolitical. So you have now proven that OP is political and only posted this to support federal GOP politics and add to the GOP stooge infestation of this formerly alternative topic forum.

Wrong again. I didn't post it in this forum. The moderators moved it to this forum. Keep banging your head.

reply to post by stanats
you're welcome IF that's what you really think.
personally, i'd expect to see both sides (partisan) expressing their views/points in a "Political Forum" or even the "Rant" Forum.
what i find humorous is your ability to distract from the point of the topic with nonsense like you posted.
as much as i appreciated the chuckle, it's really insignificant to the topic, isn't it ?

at this point, R or D, whichever side presented this and encourages State Rights gets my support.

Please, stanats, listen to Honor93. I make that request with sincere acquiescense to your right to choose to do so or not. I'm asking you to set aside whether this particular issue (health care) is of a Democratic origin or a Republican origin and just listen to the fundamental complaint that I am discussing.

And to further that this is not a "party politic" issue (and that is why I do NOT agree with the moderator decision to move this thread to the political forum. I had originally posted it in the civil unrest forum) I want to say I felt the same way and remain feeling the way I do about the PATRIOT Act. It was a usurpation of States' rights. This is as well.

Executive Order after Executive Order under Bush and Obama have continued to do the same. There are those of us who hold the foundational structure of this country above ALL ELSE when it comes to policy - not politics, POLICIES. We continue to watch administration after administration and congressional body after congressional body trample on the constitution and the powers of the States.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

That's the Declaration of Independence upon which this country was founded. It is prima facie of our creation. The Declaration that we will never EVER be held in a state of indentured servitude to a construct that takes our right to the process of democracy at the STATE level away from us.

Can you please understand that there are those of us who are mad as hell and really DON'T want to take it anymore? THAT is what this thread is about.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000
Dont you think we the people should have been the final vote on this monster? I do. Liked your words and gave you a star still trying to figure out the flag thing.

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman

Accept that you not having health insurance has nothing to do with me. Having liability car insurance is to protect the person you wrong. You not having health insurance is not an act wronging me.

reply to post by Valhall

Someone not having health insurance could potentially wrong you.. when someone who does not have healthcare walks into an emergency room and can not pay, this drives up costs for everyone else. Also, under Obamacare, Insurance companies can no longer dictate the costs of health coverage. Obamacare benefits everyone at least to some degree.

It does not benefit me. Not in any way.

Also, someone walking into an ER and walking back out without paying their bill does not, in any way, cost me a thing. It does not raise my costs for anything I buy.

So we are back to "You not having health insurance is not an act wronging me.".

I would like to vote to repeal healthcare of all the politicians who want to repeal the healthcare plan, and replace it with whatever ALTERNATIVE plan they come up with. IE if they believe so strongly in their plan, they should prove it by adopting it as their own.