Russian Cosmonaut Reveals UFO, Alien 2012 Crop Circle SECRETS

reply to post by The GUT


Please, I said it to other member I will say it to you. You will not get respect by trying to act like a debunker while you yourself are religious. I mean, either call yourself debunker and deny religion and aliens or face it - you are not a debunker, there is no middle position.

Taking the side of debunkers sounds like a pathetic attempt to eliminate any threats to your religious beliefs even if that means that aliens are really used as a new age religion. It is also a very low way to defend your beliefs since you cannot defend religion with scientific proof.

Philosophy - I've studied that even in university as well as I did Astronomy.

I am not sure Philosophy and such similar subjects help me think critical, maybe they do. I have my objectivity that no other on the forum seems to have. However, I am slowly becoming skeptical about the whole alien theme because I have never seen any reak unknown aircraft, because often times the stories turn out lies and because for 50+ years there is no progress,

However, that does not mean I am becoming skeptical to turn into religious... First of all unlike skeptics I think some things are possible, I am getting doubtful about contemporary UFOs being of alien origin but I do think ancient people may have met some civilizations of this planet or not - people in ancient times weren[t so big liars and they did retell what they see in most cases

BECAUSE CAPITALISM AND MANUFACTURING DIDNT EXIST IN ANCIENT TIMES AKA MAKE MONEY FROM EVERYTHING

Originally posted by ItsSocietysFault
reply to post by Kargun

 

Its just annoying to see somebody with a self righteous tone say the same thing fifteen times to hear his own voice. Kind of impossible to read a thread when one person comments every other post about how everything is stupid and wrong, not even in a participatory and conductive manner but just as a snob and such. Really would have been a much better read without Jim trolling it and maybe you could have used your own discretion to judge its merit and skip over it.

What's probably at play here is your preference for the OP's thoughts over Oberg's; I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed that your description here fits the OP's responses throughout this thread perfectly.

And you could always use your own discretion to judge the merit of Oberg's responses & skip over them, instead of complaining about how the inclusion of some logical analysis ruined your enjoyment of this thread.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by JimOberg


You have beclowned yourself.

I hate doing this but you leave me little choice:

When the masses give me 12,531 stars in only two years and you 4,945 stars in five years, I think the numbers speak for themselves as to who the clown is and where the 'average' person's head is at.

I am about truth. I don't give a two frigs if I hear it out of Ronald McDonalds mouth piece in a drive-through. The source is irreverent. The message matters.

As to him not being a cosmonaut or not? I have absolutely zero energy in finding that out or not. I cut/pasted the original title. His words ring truth and his rank is a non-issue.
As for you?......give someone a NASA press-pass and they think they have this influence over people on this planet. If only they knew how now, how foolish they look.

Human, I hate doing this aswell but you leave me no choice, just as I have now left someone else no choice but to respond defending your POV and so on and so forth.

All those numbers mean is that ignorance has become so widespread that no one can escape it.

In one sentence you say " I am about truth" and in the next sentence in the same post you say you have zero energy finding out if hes a cosmonaut or not.

Please explain how you are about truth when you promote lies and make deceptive statements.

Jims Clown label for you couldnt be more true after what youve just posted.

Firstly, I do not intentionally promote lies. I saw this video and posted it. End of story.

I did NOT investigate it nor check references. By the time I realized who this person was, I couldn't go back to the original post to change the title and take out the 'cosmonaut' word.

To me it doesn't matter who this was. I thought the message (right or wrong) was interesting on it's own merit.

Mr Oberg constantly visits my threads to berate and tell everyone who believes and/or knows, they are ignorant clowns for believing without global proof.

I on the other hand, NEVER visit Mr Oberg's threads let alone, post on them to tell everyone on there they are fools.

It cuts both ways and so far, this has been a way-one knife.

He is PAID by NASA to defend the idea UFOs do not exist and are not here. That's his job. And being a first hand experiencer I take exception to his 'profession'. Not only is it insulting, it's not fair to people like YOU... to get the word out and shout from the roof tops: this phenomenon is 100% real and it's now.
So all I can say is you are defending the wrong side.

Originally posted by flashtrum

Originally posted by InhaleExhale

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by JimOberg


You have beclowned yourself.

I hate doing this but you leave me little choice:

When the masses give me 12,531 stars in only two years and you 4,945 stars in five years, I think the numbers speak for themselves as to who the clown is and where the 'average' person's head is at.

I am about truth. I don't give a two frigs if I hear it out of Ronald McDonalds mouth piece in a drive-through. The source is irreverent. The message matters.

As to him not being a cosmonaut or not? I have absolutely zero energy in finding that out or not. I cut/pasted the original title. His words ring truth and his rank is a non-issue.
As for you?......give someone a NASA press-pass and they think they have this influence over people on this planet. If only they knew how now, how foolish they look.

Human, I hate doing this aswell but you leave me no choice, just as I have now left someone else no choice but to respond defending your POV and so on and so forth.

All those numbers mean is that ignorance has become so widespread that no one can escape it.

In one sentence you say " I am about truth" and in the next sentence in the same post you say you have zero energy finding out if hes a cosmonaut or not.

Please explain how you are about truth when you promote lies and make deceptive statements.

Jims Clown label for you couldnt be more true after what youve just posted.

Wow we are comparing "my stars are better than your stars now?

What are you dude in 5th grade? Not the OP I replied to, the second one up. Seriously that's how you measure how smart you are? Quit attacking people, broseph.

I wasn't showing off. Just making a point of who the 'clown' here was.

He flings names at me constantly when all I do is post threads. I never ever ever call this man a name first.

The stars is a representation of the general populous here.
And "clowns and fools" don't get 12,000+ stars for sharing foolish beliefs. THAT was my point. Not bragging rather making a point (that makes me look bad but I had to stoop to that level to reach Mr Oberg)

Originally posted by BuzzCory

Originally posted by ItsSocietysFault
reply to post by Kargun

 

Its just annoying to see somebody with a self righteous tone say the same thing fifteen times to hear his own voice. Kind of impossible to read a thread when one person comments every other post about how everything is stupid and wrong, not even in a participatory and conductive manner but just as a snob and such. Really would have been a much better read without Jim trolling it and maybe you could have used your own discretion to judge its merit and skip over it.

What's probably at play here is your preference for the OP's thoughts over Oberg's; I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed that your description here fits the OP's responses throughout this thread perfectly.

And you could always use your own discretion to judge the merit of Oberg's responses & skip over them, instead of complaining about how the inclusion of some logical analysis ruined your enjoyment of this thread.

How hypocritical could this post possibly be? Why not U2U your thoughts? Instead you're doing exactly what you're complaining about.

Mr Oberg is either loved or hated (as a UFO debunker. He's probably a very nice gentleman in person) but that's how it is. He created this rift. Not me.

To know how someone feels about a certain subject and be able to predict his posts, becomes annoying. We know he doesn't believe in this field of the paranormal. And yet he has to let everyone know that over and over and over again.
It gets played out and to dodge or ignore his snide posts to me personally, is uncalled for. If I wanted his opinion, I would've subscribe to Skeptic Magazine or whatever the hell publication that employed him.

Originally posted by krossfyter
what i dont get, and this maybe due to my low level of understanding in newtonian pyhsics/theory or relitivity, is that when he says that there is something approaching outside of the milky way and we will be able to see on dec of 2012... when we look into the sky and see stars.... arent we seeing light from those stars from a long time ago? why isnt that the case with anything thats supposedly approaching? okay... they were approaching along time ago? are they still approaching? how can we on earth make a claim that something in our past is approaching to be here in our future?


i dont get that. someone clear that up for me. thanks.

anyone want to tackle my above question? i feel its getting lost in the current on going ego battle/shuffle in here. its probably a real simple answer. so its probably a quick answer. thanks.

We're on page 11 now and I'm just curious when you guys are going to start discussing this guys message. Since that's all that matters, right? It's not about the source, or whether or not he's a crazy person or a cosmonaut, or if it's true or a bunch of word soup gibberish, it's all about the message!! Come on guys, this Russian is ((((((leaking))))))) some juicy secrets from the shadow government here, and you just want to battle Jim and try to collect some stars? This thread really shows what your priorities are here.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
I am about truth.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
As to him not being a cosmonaut or not? I have absolutely zero energy in finding that out or not.

Human_Alien after re-reading your opening post I have to question whether or not you've even listened to the video you posted. You don't mention a single thing he talks about, despite it being "great coverage, very intriguing and highly controversial". You make some vague statement about the line between truth and reality, and something about our past that makes no sense, but not a mention of any of the juicy secrets that this guy is uncovering, like multiple races of aliens from multiple dimensions drawing circles in crop fields to communicate with us because our government is lying to us. Or how every time there is a bolt of light above a field the military can detect it on radar Then they dispatch a fighter jet or helicopter to intercept the bolts of light and prevent the aliens from delivering some vital information to humanity (those bastards!). If you have listened to the video, and aren't here just to collect more Schrute Bucks, then according to your cosmonaut what is the difference between the man-made and "real" crop circles?

Originally posted by Human_Alien

He (Jim Oberg) is PAID by NASA to defend the idea UFOs do not exist and are not here. That's his job.

As one who has been following this thread, I REALLY would like to know if the above point is FACT (I'm sure other's would like to know as well).

To Mr. Oberg:
Sir, are you, in fact, "PAID by NASA to defend the idea UFOs do not exist and are not here."?; Are you employed by NASA in ANY capacity?

Certainly, you have been open and forthcoming with us regarding your thoughts and opinions, so I see no shame in continuing in kind by responding to H.A.'s point that you are indeed with NASA.
Such continued frankness will undoubtably add to your credibility with your supporters in this matter.

I see your website url...and I admire the man and his dedication...but, with all due respect, anyone can claim to be anyone here.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
He is PAID by NASA to defend the idea UFOs do not exist and are not here. That's his job. And being a first hand experiencer I take exception to his 'profession'. Not only is it insulting, it's not fair to people like YOU... to get the word out and shout from the roof tops: this phenomenon is 100% real and it's now.
So all I can say is you are defending the wrong side.

I've passed over this vicious lie about a dozen times on 'your' thread but that's my limit.

Your statement isn't just factually wrong, it is personally insulting, and all it really does is
show yourself as a person who can't win a factual debate so has to attack illusory imaginary
motivations of people who disagree with him.

And that's been your standard for reality-check from the moment 'your' thread was born in a lie
when YOU picked the title for it.

Just to be clear. I'm an even WORSE nightmare to NASA when it covers up stuff it doesn't want
the public to know.

I addressed this very issue in my "99 FAQs" but you have made clear your intent to avoid reading them -- so you can keep fantasizing accusations that are already cleared up, in them.

Here's the link [responding to a specific request, earlier] www.jamesoberg.com...

89 Q: Are you part of some paid ‘debunking’ effort?
A: What can I say? If I were, I suppose I’d falsely deny it. Usually I just retort that anybody who can provide me with the contract number and address to send my invoices will earn a 10% commission for all future payments. As a rule, people who make this accusation are just looking for a lame excuse to ignore my investigation results.

and

91 Q: Are you some kind of knee-jerk “NASA defender”?
A: That’s the biggest joke of all. I’ve been one of NASA’s most dogged critics over the past fifteen years regarding what I saw as a decaying safety culture [I was a ‘whistle blower’ to Congress in 1997 about NASA’s poor safety culture, and left my work at the Johnson Space Center in Houston soon afterwards], a politicization of international programs for diplomatic intentions [see my book ‘Star-Crossed Orbits’], a public information policy of blaming workers rather than managers for slipups [I won a national magazine writing award for exposing the true cause of the 1999 Mars robot fleet debacle], and a clumsy news blackout on shortcomings of the Russian space program, for political purposes. I’m the only journalist to ever have been denounced by name in a NASA press release for a “wacko” theory that turned out to be closer to the truth than NASA’s official position.

reply to post by freelance_zenarchist


Pardon me for not living up to your expectations but this thread took a totally different turn then I had planned. I was busy defending who this guy was or wasn't and how it didn't matter for 5-pages!!! Then Oberg got busy bad-mouthing me so I got into defense mode!

Once it gets side-tracked it's very hard to get back on track so in a way, Oberg won!

What I have learned is to know a little more of what I am posting and the titles I use because it becomes a feeding frenzy when there's a misunderstanding right at the starting gate. Say, where are your threads? I see five!!!
It's very easy to critique when you have no idea what it's like being an author of a thread only to defend your beliefs instead of the subject.

reply to post by freelance_zenarchist

He was commissioned by NASA to write a rebuttal of Apollo Moon landing conspiracy theories. NASA later dropped the project; however, Oberg has said that he still intends to pursue it.[6]

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by JimOberg

Thank you and, for the sake of discussion, I respectfully take you at your word.
HumanAlien, Jim Oberg, thank you, both, for a very interesting battle of wits and opinion.

At the end of the day, however, I have to give HumanAlien the credit for presenting more substance (regardless of whether his points ultimately turn out to be proven or disproven).

Opposition through negativity is neither debunking, nor proof.

There's some real substance in this response to a challenge from H_A, that I haven't seen him reply to yet.

He offered Story Musgrave as apparently a supporter of HIS idea that the videos shown in his initial post are somehow alien or unexplainable. I suggest that he has the facts bass ackwards by 180 degrees, and the proof of that-- is Musgrave's own views.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Here's the most recent commentary:

Ex-Astronaut Story Musgrave: ETs Exist, They're Just Not Visiting Earth

www.huffingtonpost.com...

"I'm going to tell them that, for me, and my interpretation of everything that's come my way, I cannot arrive at the idea that we have been visited -- either in the past or now," Musgrave told The Huffington Post.

"Some astronauts have been quoted as saying they think they're [aliens] out there -- I have seen their evidence, and for me, it's not evidence," he said. "Other astronauts were not able to provide me with any empirical evidence, either."

his earlier statement:
Re www.realufos.net...

From: "Story Musgrave" To:

reply to post by JimOberg

I stand corrected. Your quoted rebuttal is indeed substantial.

Well, for what it worth I enjoyed the video, and all the butt-hurt debunkers posts are a fun read on most threads on ats. The passion exibited by debunker/non believer types is facinating. If they don't like a thread, I would think they would just back out and leave it. It's what I do. Some though, it's a freaking mission to pull it apart, usually based on no more evidence than the op provides. Kinda silly really. Read the thread, watch the video, you don't agree? Make your case and move on with your life. To beat a guys thread into the ground to try to prove your beliefs to others, is not wanted. I can make my mind up if a theory, idea, thought, concept, or whatever has merit.
you don't really have to take the "deny ignorance" concept to the level of suppressing information.

In that respect, I guess the best debunker becomes a tool of ignorance. Shutting down further investigation and thought. Ending discussion by altering the nature of the discussion.

Originally posted by Imtor
reply to post by The GUT

 

Please, I said it to other member I will say it to you. You will not get respect by trying to act like a debunker while you yourself are religious. I mean, either call yourself debunker and deny religion and aliens or face it - you are not a debunker, there is no middle position.

I'm not a debunker, nor do I act like one, Imtor. I appreciate our more intelligent skeptics because they bring a lot to the table.

As far as respect goes:

A. Who cares?

B. How would you know?

And, btw, I'm not religious. I practice a faith. Big difference, but semantics doesn't seem to be a strong point with you, nor even your own university studies, but I'll address that below.

Taking the side of debunkers sounds like a pathetic attempt to eliminate any threats to your religious beliefs even if that means that aliens are really used as a new age religion. It is also a very low way to defend your beliefs since you cannot defend religion with scientific proof.

That doesn't even make sense, Imtor. None. Zero. "Taking the side of debunkers sounds like a pathetic attempt to eliminate any threats to your religious beliefs even if that means that aliens are really used as a new age religion?" Come again? Most debunkers are either/and/or humanists & atheists. Especially your CSICOP variety of which Jim Oberg is one.

Philosophy - I've studied that even in university as well as I did Astronomy.

I am not sure Philosophy and such similar subjects help me think critical, maybe they do. I have my objectivity that no other on the forum seems to have.

I sure hope you were paying more attention in your Astronomy class than you were in Philosophy. As I mentioned: Philosophy is the Father of Science, and Logic. Aristotelianism

However, I am slowly becoming skeptical about the whole alien theme because I have never seen any reak unknown aircraft, because often times the stories turn out lies and because for 50+ years there is no progress[.

However, that does not mean I am becoming skeptical to turn into religious... First of all unlike skeptics I think some things are possible, I am getting doubtful about contemporary UFOs being of alien origin but I do think ancient people may have met some civilizations of this planet or not - people in ancient times weren[t so big liars and they did retell what they see in most cases...

I amazed. You happened to be right about one thing: Traditional Ufology hasn't managed to accomplish much in better than half a century of study. So maybe you are getting warmer...and just maybe you will find a faith of your own after all.

Brush back up on your philosophy and actually take the time to contemplate the things I listed in my previous post: Infinity, Paradox, and Consciousness. Science has virtually no answer to those three very important subjects. Therein lies a major clue to the mystery of our universe and ourselves. That's where philosophy can help you...and maybe you'll find a very shocking, but pleasant revelation waiting for you. I hope so

Aliens do not exist. I haven’t seen one around, have you?

I can see aliens on another planets, that is nearly a fact seeing how big the universe is. Visiting Earth? Hardly. The universe is big and has many planets like Earth and even better, why us? It just sounds so far fetched, it hurts.

Don’t be like the catholic church! We are not the center of everything like we used to think.


I am sorry if I am being off-topic, just something I always wanted to say to those alien people on ATS.

reply to post by Anishnaabe


Yer but who knows how advanced they are. Let's face it their real, there's more evidence of them being out there than there is that there not real. We can't be alone out of all the space in the universe we just can't!

reply to post by Anishnaabe


Yer but who knows how advanced they are. Let's face it their real, there's more evidence of them being out there than there is that there not real. We can't be alone out of all the space in the universe we just can't!

Originally posted by Human_Alien
To know how someone feels about a certain subject and be able to predict his posts, becomes annoying. We know he doesn't believe in this field of the paranormal. And yet he has to let everyone know that over and over and over again.
It gets played out and to dodge or ignore his snide posts to me personally, is uncalled for. If I wanted his opinion, I would've subscribe to Skeptic Magazine or whatever the hell publication that employed him.

If you'll reread my reply when you've calmed down a bit, you'll probably see that the part of my reply to which you refer in the quote above, wasn't about your posts, & wasn't even directed at you. Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have been caused by that part of my reply.