Prophet, priest or servant.

I, for superficial reasons, have gone ahead and made an attempt at classifying humans. Of course, as with all attempts at classification, there is much overlapping, and systems such as these usually help to generalize rather than to define; but I think this attempt may serve, at least for me, to be of some use. So excuse any narrow-mindedness for what it is.

I have divided humans into three metaphorical subcategories—the prophet, the priest and the servant—using religion as an analogy. I will disregard the metaphysical and ineffable aspects of religious assertion for what they are, as they are unnecessary in this instance.

The Prophet

If we suspend judgement on the mythological aspects of religion, we can learn much without having to argue about its metaphysics. One thing I find especially intriguing in the cannons of religious lore is the prophets—the humans, who through divine revelation or pure creative reason, inspired the masses with their wisdom. Although much excellence can be found in their doctrines, it is difficult to determine whether their principles are to this day still relevant, as sometimes thousands of years stretch between them and modern times. Nonetheless, their teachings are not what is found to be most important about their life, but rather how they lived them.

Let’s presuppose a prophet lives his life according to no doctrine but his own. This implies many things: the prophet holds the empathy and imagination to properly conceive of a doctrine he can live by; he acquires the honesty and critical awareness needed to refute the doctrines of others; and he shows a keen ability for deep and prolonged contemplation. These are prerequisites for the task of determining value and creating a way of life.

Despite the overwhelming pull to accept and fall in line behind the popular doctrines held by the many, the prophet is still able to go through life by his own principles (ie. Jesus in the time of Judaism, Buddha in the time of the Brahmin, and Socrates in the time of the Athenians). This may also imply the prophet holds a slight subversive disobedience, one which compells him to challenge and deny the prevailing beliefs of the time in favour of his own. This could be considered brave or at least stubborn. The prophet was of course inspirational enough to gather followers, not because he performed miracles, but because people wanted to live as he did and feel how he felt.

The prophet was wise; and through his wisdom, love and self-mastery, lived life to the fullest and on his own accord, not to be a shepherd, but to remain true only to himself, and in turn, humanity.

The Priest

Behind the prophet, lies the disciple, who waits at the side of the table for the scraps the prophet leaves behind. The priests don’t live according to their own doctrines, but instead find purpose in attempting to live the doctrines of the prophets. With this vantage point, the priest needn’t accomplish the difficult task of providing his own way of life, as the prophet has done the necessary work for him. The priest, to justify his choice as a follower and to satiate his own vanity, needs other followers to do the same. Thus he preaches the doctrine of the prophet as his own and becomes the authoritarian.

The priest is a strange case (The Grand Inquisitor comes to mind). He holds the fortitude to lead, but lacks the creativity, confidence and contemplative skills to live his own way of life according to himself. He refuses to do the necessary work to achieve the same things as the prophet. He instead chooses faith in the doctrine of someone else at the expense of his own potential, which goes against what the prophet really taught.

The Servant

The servant has neither the time nor energy to conceive applying his own doctrine to his own life. Why would one bother when doctrines are being served ready-made with the priest’s stamp of approval? He thinks “what works for the majority must assuredly work for me.” This is done, not out of necessity, but out of laziness. The servant needs only to fill the void, something to justify life to himself and others, or something he can fall back on when a more philosophical mind is required. He is only prone to adhere to the doctrines of his priests and authoritarians. Despite his pride telling him otherwise, he is perpetually a servant to someone else.

Conclusion

Every human has the potential to become a prophet, priest or servant; and in matters of life, these generalizations can be spotted everywhere. Although it is exceedingly difficult to ignore the indoctrination in our lives, we are still strong and creative enough to propose our own truths. The only perspective one truly sees from is his own, showing that any other perspective or interpretation of life has a fundamental error. If we eliminate these errors, or at least disregard them as not true from our angle, we make way for our own perspective.

Which are you, Prophet, Priest or Servant?

Prophet.

reply to post by BlueMule


Do you subscribe to your own doctrine and that of no one else's?

Servant,
second line

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Do you subscribe to your own doctrine and that of no one else's?

Yup.

But I recognize that all prophets, past and future, are my brothers and sisters. As such they are aspects of myself, and I am an aspect of them. We are one.

So it's not so much about rejecting the doctrines of other prophets as it is assimilating them.

reply to post by TheNamesZeppelin


I enjoy your honesty. This means you are probably honest with yourself. You possess the necessary requirements to become a prophet.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Do you subscribe to your own doctrine and that of no one else's?

Yup.

But I recognize that all prophets, past and future, are my brothers and sisters. As such they are aspects of myself, and I am an aspect of them. We are one.

So it's not so much about rejecting the doctrines of other prophets as it is assimilating them.

That is a good workaround to what I proposed. And even though I find it impossible to become one with prophets of the past and future, and that I see you are subscribing to doctrines ie: oneness, which you more than likely came across in your own research and are now thus asserting, I can still see that the will to create and build on those doctrines is there. I think in the confines of this thought experiment, you are undefinable, as I gather you are both priest, prophet and servant.

I say this because that's what I feel I am as well.

I suppose Prophet...

Which explains why so many people have told me I AM and why others find it difficult to get along with me when they find out all I can do and have done...

I just hope that some day people will start to see that my honesty, compassion, and love are genuine instead of always taking a jaded view of me that I "must be out to get something" or I wouldn't take an interest in them...

Quite often I wish I wasn't who and what I AM because then maybe someone would believe that I just love them for them... flaws and all...

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
...oneness, which you more than likely came across in your own research and are now thus asserting...

I have experienced various levels of ego-transcendence / oneness which I interpret as gifts from Divine Grace. I am an experienced mystic, and I consider mystical experiences to be a vital part of being a 'prophet'. And yes as a student of comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism I certainly have come across doctrines of oneness which I happily assimilate in light of my experiences.

Originally posted by SwissMarked
I suppose Prophet...

Which explains why so many people have told me I AM and why others find it difficult to get along with me when they find out all I can do and have done...

I just hope that some day people will start to see that my honesty, compassion, and love are genuine instead of always taking a jaded view of me that I "must be out to get something" or I wouldn't take an interest in them...

Quite often I wish I wasn't who and what I AM because then maybe someone would believe that I just love them for them... flaws and all...

Within the confines of this thought experiment:
I'm not sure if a prophet would worry what others think about him. His vanity isn't important because he'd be so sure of his own way of life that what others thought of him wouldn't matter. If one is vain, they are a servant, as they're living by someone else's doctrine and not their own.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
...oneness, which you more than likely came across in your own research and are now thus asserting...

I have experienced various levels of ego-transcendence / oneness which I interpret as gifts from Divine Grace. I am an experienced mystic, and I consider mystical experiences to be a vital part of being a 'prophet'. And yes as a student of comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism I certainly have come across doctrines of oneness which I happily assimilate in light of my experiences.

edit on 6-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

I respect your interpretations. But I would consider this also preaching—which falls outside the definition of prophet I have used.

I only wish to find out if humans can once again become prophets. I realize now that we are a bit of all three. Maybe if we were to somehow eliminate all doctrines regarding morals, metaphysics, and language, we could all begin anew.

I suppose a person could do this by retreating into solitude, maybe by living in the woods, completely free of language and the ways of life of others. Or is our way of life to be always determined by the interpretations of others?

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

...I would consider this also preaching—which falls outside the definition of prophet I have used.

I respect your interpretation, even though I don't share it.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by SwissMarked
I suppose Prophet...

Which explains why so many people have told me I AM and why others find it difficult to get along with me when they find out all I can do and have done...

I just hope that some day people will start to see that my honesty, compassion, and love are genuine instead of always taking a jaded view of me that I "must be out to get something" or I wouldn't take an interest in them...

Quite often I wish I wasn't who and what I AM because then maybe someone would believe that I just love them for them... flaws and all...

Within the confines of this thought experiment:
I'm not sure if a prophet would worry what others think about him. His vanity isn't important because he'd be so sure of his own way of life that what others thought of him wouldn't matter. If one is vain, they are a servant, as they're living by someone else's doctrine and not their own.

The prophet isn't a prophet as a lone ranger. He needs others to listen, hear him and consider what he's saying, so while he doesn't care what they might think of him personally, and can't care about that, given how many people will think him crazy, it's certainly important to him what others think about what he's saying. A prophet is someone who tries to straighten everything out, and who, standing on what he takes to be a rock of eternal wisdom as a point of leverage, wants to move people and the world by his insight and inspiration. So while he's not vain, he sure does seek to influence others. Also, recognizing the infallibility of human nature, even within himself, he's brave enough to proclaim ideals of perfection even while he himself may be a work in progress. To others he may appear wild and crazy like John the Baptist, or a party animal who's always having fun for the most part, like Jesus.

I also think you've got servant all wrong whereby "the greatest among you will be the servant of all."

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by SwissMarked
I suppose Prophet...

Which explains why so many people have told me I AM and why others find it difficult to get along with me when they find out all I can do and have done...

I just hope that some day people will start to see that my honesty, compassion, and love are genuine instead of always taking a jaded view of me that I "must be out to get something" or I wouldn't take an interest in them...

Quite often I wish I wasn't who and what I AM because then maybe someone would believe that I just love them for them... flaws and all...

Within the confines of this thought experiment:
I'm not sure if a prophet would worry what others think about him. His vanity isn't important because he'd be so sure of his own way of life that what others thought of him wouldn't matter. If one is vain, they are a servant, as they're living by someone else's doctrine and not their own.

The prophet isn't a prophet as a lone ranger. He needs others to listen, hear him and consider what he's saying, so while he doesn't care what they might think of him personally, and can't care about that, given how many people will think him crazy, it's certainly important to him what others think about what he's saying. A prophet is someone who tries to straighten everything out, and who, standing on what he takes to be a rock of eternal wisdom as a point of leverage, wants to move people and the world by his insight and inspiration. So while he's not vain, he sure does seek to influence others. Also, recognizing the infallibility of human nature, even within himself, he's brave enough to proclaim ideals of perfection even while he himself may be a work in progress. To others he may appear wild and crazy like John the Baptist, or a party animal who's always having fun for the most part, like Jesus.

I also think you've got servant all wrong whereby "the greatest among you will be the servant of all."

That's exactly my point... I don't care what others think of me and my beliefs due to ego... I care because I hate to see people hurt because they'll put pride before humility every day of the week...

I've been told all of my life that I'm "crazy" for believing that if I stand against the tide long enough it will change... but it isn't so much a belief as it is an inherent knowledge that it's what I must do even if I don't really want to...

reply to post by SwissMarked

This is for you, and other would be prophets in today's insane and very dark and ignorant world, hope you like it!

New World Man

He's a rebel and a runner
He's a signal turning green
He's a restless young romantic
Wants to run the big machine

He's got a problem with his poisons
But you know he'll find a cure
He's cleaning up his systems
To keep his nature pure

Learning to match the beat of the Old World man
Learning to catch the heat of the Third World man
He's got to make his own mistakes
And learn to mend the mess he makes
He's old enough to know what's right
But young enough not to choose it
He's noble enough to win the world
But weak enough to lose it --
He's a New World man...

He's a radio receiver
Turned to factories and farms
He's a writer and arranger
And a young boy bearing arms

He's got a problem with his power
With weapons on patrol
He's got to walk a fine line
And keep his self-control

Trying to save the day for the Old World man
Trying to pave the way for the Third World man

He's not concerned with yesterday
He knows constant change is here today
He's noble enough to know what's right
But weak enough not to choose it
He's wise enough to win the world
But fool enough to lose it --
He's a New World man...

[ Lyrics from: www.lyricsfreak.com... ]

reply to post by SwissMarked

In spite of the obstacles and challenges, a prophet, imho, is someone who is able to maintain a great sense of humor, and a joy that overcomes the world. He is able to laugh at himself and he invites others to laugh right along with him at the absurdity of our shared predicament, until we all, once imprisoned in subjective prison cells of our own making, see the open door through which we can boldly and joyfully walk straight into the light of reason, relative to which everything that is unreasonable becomes nothing but the comedic material of the joke of the ages.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
I only wish to find out if humans can once again become prophets. I realize now that we are a bit of all three. Maybe if we were to somehow eliminate all doctrines regarding morals, metaphysics, and language, we could all begin anew.

I suppose a person could do this by retreating into solitude, maybe by living in the woods, completely free of language and the ways of life of others. Or is our way of life to be always determined by the interpretations of others?

I like the idea of the thought experiment,,, but I feel it is amazingly over simplifying reality,.,.,. I think at the core of it all lies individuality,,,,, and a person treasures and values their life for they live with themselves,..,, for an outsider to categorize what a person does is whatever,,.,.,..,. any man who lives his life is successful..... who finds a wife and has a family,,, goes to work to provide,,,,,, no matter what is going on in the outside world,,,,, regardless of this mans encounters,,,,, the only real world and the only world that matters is in his mind and heart,,, and his home with his family...,.,.,.,

nice thread though Les ( ?)

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by SwissMarked
I suppose Prophet...

Which explains why so many people have told me I AM and why others find it difficult to get along with me when they find out all I can do and have done...

I just hope that some day people will start to see that my honesty, compassion, and love are genuine instead of always taking a jaded view of me that I "must be out to get something" or I wouldn't take an interest in them...

Quite often I wish I wasn't who and what I AM because then maybe someone would believe that I just love them for them... flaws and all...

Within the confines of this thought experiment:
I'm not sure if a prophet would worry what others think about him. His vanity isn't important because he'd be so sure of his own way of life that what others thought of him wouldn't matter. If one is vain, they are a servant, as they're living by someone else's doctrine and not their own.

The prophet isn't a prophet as a lone ranger. He needs others to listen, hear him and consider what he's saying, so while he doesn't care what they might think of him personally, and can't care about that, given how many people will think him crazy, it's certainly important to him what others think about what he's saying. A prophet is someone who tries to straighten everything out, and who, standing on what he takes to be a rock of eternal wisdom as a point of leverage, wants to move people and the world by his insight and inspiration. So while he's not vain, he sure does seek to influence others. Also, recognizing the infallibility of human nature, even within himself, he's brave enough to proclaim ideals of perfection even while he himself may be a work in progress. To others he may appear wild and crazy like John the Baptist, or a party animal who's always having fun for the most part, like Jesus.

I also think you've got servant all wrong whereby "the greatest among you will be the servant of all."

I don't think he needs others to listen, its just that people are inspired by his wisdom and way of life. What he says isn't what's important, as anyone can come to the same conclusions. I think the way they live their life is where the value is.

"the greatest among you will be the servent of all" is a doctrine of someone else's, anyone who ascribes to such a thing is only fit to be a servant.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
I only wish to find out if humans can once again become prophets. I realize now that we are a bit of all three. Maybe if we were to somehow eliminate all doctrines regarding morals, metaphysics, and language, we could all begin anew.

I suppose a person could do this by retreating into solitude, maybe by living in the woods, completely free of language and the ways of life of others. Or is our way of life to be always determined by the interpretations of others?

I like the idea of the thought experiment,,, but I feel it is amazingly over simplifying reality,.,.,. I think at the core of it all lies individuality,,,,, and a person treasures and values their life for they live with themselves,..,, for an outsider to categorize what a person does is whatever,,.,.,..,. any man who lives his life is successful..... who finds a wife and has a family,,, goes to work to provide,,,,,, no matter what is going on in the outside world,,,,, regardless of this mans encounters,,,,, the only real world and the only world that matters is in his mind and heart,,, and his home with his family...,.,.,.,

nice thread though Les

( ?)

Of course it's over simplified. I intended it to be so.

I agree that individuality is the core issue here. Should an individual subscribe to the doctrines of others? When he is just as capable of coming up with his own doctrine?