Cops need to be monitored

I am placing this in Political Issues because crime, and law enforcement can be hot button political issues.

It seems every day we see and hear more and more stories of police brutality and even more don't get the attention they deserve.
In court a cops word is almost taken as sacrosanct and you need to jump over a multitude of hurdles to impune them.
Even if they are proven to be lying most prosecutors won't prosecute as to not anger the cops and the unions.
Cops carry weapons that can cause permanent bodily harm and even kill, yet we as the general public are supposed to trust them when we don't even know them.
If a cop is using excessive force and you defend yourself you are still prosecuted for striking an officer even if you were innocent of the crime that the cop was harassing you over in the first place.
Sure a good lawyer can win such a case but who can afford a good lawyer.

I propose something to fix this.
The Go Cam and similar cameras have been rated to stand up to tornado force winds.
Simply redesign the uniforms to put a Go Cam outside the bullet proof vest and have it turn on when the cop exits their car.
The cars already have dash cams so there is already precedent for monitoring.

The use of this would be simple, everything is monitored and saved until x years after the cop is retired.
If there is a dispute over a cops actions simply review the video.
Good cops should welcome this with open arms as it will make nuisance complaints go away as all the DA needs to do is look at the video and say "sorry bub the cop was in the right".

If there is a dispute or act of force investigation and the video "didn't record" the battery "died" or the video is "lost" or "misplaced" the cop is placed on immediate unpaid leave until the outcome of the investigation.
Again good cops would have no problem as they won't be having many disputes lodged and when they are since they are good cops the video will be there to back them up.
The only people who should fear this are the bad cops and it's time they fear something.

Some might say there is already too much big brother monitoring.
This isn't to monitor us though, if the cops are around big brother is already there in the first place.
If the cops testify all they can testify to is what they remember, and if they are crooked they lie.
No, this isn't to monitor us in yet another way.
This is to protect us from bad cops, which there appear to be more and more each passing day.

You could argue that the cops won't like this.
Oh well, they aren't paid to like things, they are paid to protect and serve.
We have reached a point where they are a danger to everyone.
If a cop is upset about this then they have something to hide.
If they are a good cop they should have nothing to hide, or be fearful of.

We need protecting from the protectors and this makes it possible.

All police video devices should be IP addressable and they should all be publically accessible. There needs to be some serious big brother BUT in reverse of the way the big brother wants it. The People need to become the big brother lording over government. Every move that these public servants make should be under observation and scrutiny. Every step the take and every word they speak should be a matter of public record.

Honestly,I just punch them out and run...through the fist or courts when its expunged ...most time we laugh and make friends and fight again and not get charged.....poor punched out cops....half of my friends are cops..

A message to all Police Officers from a Veteran police officer.
Rule # 1 Peace Officer first, as your Oath states. Law enforcement officer second, as your Oath states.

I don't know if every device should have it's own IP address as I don't know if that's practical.

I'm all for each device having a permanent stamp on the video saying the date/time and officers name and badge number.
All the videos should be accessible to the public via each departments website.

I can imagine a world where groups of concerned citizen get together and review the weeks footage from the local police station to make sure all videos are accounted for and that nothing bad happened.
The only time I could think that a video should be not accessible is in the course of an open investigation if it might prevent the cops from making an arrest.
In that case the video is blocked by a judge and only for a limited amount of time.
I doubt the majority of videos would fall under that protection though.

Having a website where the public can view the videos on demand would take time though.
The cops and their unions would fight this every step of the way so it would need to be phased in.
Start with what I originally said and then slowly switch to review on demand.
I only say phase it in because going up against cops and their unions is a big opponent to tackle and you need to do it right.

It's a shame we would need to phase this in slowly, but better slow than never at all in my opinion.

I totally agree with you it's time big brother had their every move watched.

I don't see how cops can say no to this.
If they are good this will protect them from fake complaints.
If they are good it will force out their bad comrades thus allowing them to not only do their job better but do their job with more trust from the civilians they are supposed to protect.

Only a bad cop would say no to this.

Originally posted by Pigraphia

I propose something to fix this.
The Go Cam and similar cameras have been rated to stand up to tornado force winds.
Simply redesign the uniforms to put a Go Cam outside the bullet proof vest and have it turn on when the cop exits their car.
The cars already have dash cams so there is already precedent for monitoring.

Not all countries have implemented dash cams for police. Not only should this be done worldwide, but these dashcams should remain on when the vehicle is in service and the footage should be stored for a minimum of 20 years.

All police should have a head-mounted personal camera active 100% of the time they are on duty. Except for bathroom breaks, all video should be accessible by any member of the public at no charge.

People with extraordinary power require extraordinary management. Police misconduct solved. That's why they will never implement this or any other reasonable system.

reply to post by jcarpenter


I wasn't even thinking of other countries.
Now that I think about it I remember being in Rome and cops beating the male of a tourist couple.
I went to speak out and the tour guide grabbed me and said something like "you don't mess with off duty cops in Rome".
I forget how he could tell they were off duty other than the beating part, but he pointed out what to look for.

Other countries probably do have it as bad as America maybe worse.

Who says we can't pass it?
We the people are a powerful force.
Vote it in over their heads.
I'm not one for raising taxes, but I would gladly pay a little extra in sales tax if it' meant ending police corruption.

yes they do and if you try to expose their criminal corruption you are tagged a whistle blower and then you are dead.
So we sit back and hide with our facts truths and evidence wondering how the heck do i expose them without being eliminated.

reply to post by lbndhr


That's why we all need to move on this.

If we keep hiding and keep letting them walk all over use they will alwayse have the power.

We need to find a way to get these laws passed.

Citizens who obey the law should not be afraid of their governments or law enforcement.

The government should be afraid of it's citizens.

What use would monitoring be? All the video evidence of police brutality that exists is virtually ignored, glossed over, excused and otherwise brushed underneath an increasingly deformed carpet.

I did jury duty at the begining of this year, and since the case has long been done with, I can speak of it without reprisal, or worse, breaking the trust that the law placed in me by allowing me to participate in its function.
I had to fight tooth and nail to prevent the conviction of an innocent man, of assaulting two police officers, after an incident that had seen those officers commit various offenses against his person in an unprovoked attack INSIDE a police station.

They had manhandled him, thrown him to the ground, and crushed his face into the floor. Despite his having stated clearly that he was bi polar, which ought to have meant that they behaved in accordance with PACE law (those are bits of legislation that deal with police strategy for dealing with those who present psychological disorders, and are designed for the protection of the suspect, and the police force, to prevent undue harm coming to either party) they assaulted the man, and then claimed that he had commited assault by biting one of them, and by "barging" the other.

They had no evidence to support their claim of assault, but the rest of the jury seemed ready to convict, one of them, purely because she had been a special constable and would "always fall on the side of the police" in such matters. I had to argue against not only her attitude, but the general respect a policemans word is held in. Using the evidence that the defendants legal representative had shown us, and the testimony of the police officers, I was able to argue that the injuries allegedly caused by the defendant, could ONLY have happened if his face was being handled by the police officer who was bitten.

If I had not been there, the gentleman would currently be languishing in jail, or several thousand pounds worse off, for no reason other than sheer idiocy on the part of a jury, and utter contempt on the part of the police.

Now, I have no beef with the police force in general, but there are times where the respect that some feel toward them, is far to much of a veil over the fact that they are human, and as prone to sin and outright evil as anyone else.

Originally posted by Pigraphia
Who says we can't pass it?
We the people are a powerful force.
Vote it in over their heads.
I'm not one for raising taxes, but I would gladly pay a little extra in sales tax if it' meant ending police corruption.

We are a powerful force when we get organized and involved. Most of the time "we" are sheeple, mindlessly bleating about the newest Hollywood variety show. That's how governments loot treasuries and destroy civil rights.

They have incrementally put their hands so deep in our pockets for money, I can't support any new taxes. I am in a moral dilemma about the taxes we pay now because those dollars fund massive crimes and warcrimes -- overseas and domestically. I don't wish to be complicit in this war on humanity.

reply to post by TrueBrit


We need to start somewhere.

As far as evidence being ignored now, these police beatings are getting more and more attention and right now there is just a mole hill of video.

If we put cameras on every cop we will have a mountain of evidence.

The whole "this mess is too big cleaning it up will be too hard" is part of the problem.
We can't look at it as an impossible task, rather a task that we can no longer ignore.

I've been in the law enforcement realm my whole life.
My grandfather, father, me.

Serving and helping. That is why. Not to shoot people, use force, beat people. But to help.
I am in a different field now, still law enforcement ish, but behind the monitors, big brother style.

I agree, that police need to be watched more closely. Internal self investigations are the stupidest thing I've ever heard. In the states, you have the "Internal Affairs". But they are even higher empowered law enforcement officials. I don't think that "peace keeping" is in their oath at all. haha.

The United States keeps shuffling out more and more stories, about bad police, even the MSM gets involved. Maybe it still is part of the bigger "divide and conquer" agenda. Policing is needed, but not by thugs. People. Which is what all officers are. People.

Sadly, people can be absolutely ugly.

My opinion should be, that even though police agencies deal with the absolutely ugliest of events sometimes, training needs to be improved.

Take a rookie. Team him up with a veteran. He gets no weapons for 1 year. Much like Auxiliary RCMP in Canada. They are point of contact in most situations, always backed up by the officer with the proper tools. This, will teach them to talk first. Relate. Maybe.

But yeah, there needs to be a different system in place to keep the officers keeping the peace and protecting people. Not being the tool to a restrictive agenda.

It is a stressful job at most times. This I know. We are lied to, spat on, assaulted, shot at, threatened, endangered in some way, every single day. Yes, training is provided to deal with it. But the training doesn't teach flowers and love. It's a level of paramilitary training. For good reasons. But as we see with soldiers coming back from war...the training creates aggressiveness for protective reasons. Some of these officers believe they are at war everyday, instead of helping. That is sad.

Anyways, I got out because of some crazy # that I've seen, heard, that all has to do with reasons mentioned in many forums and threads here.

Here's a nice positive story:

ca.news.yahoo.com...


But I'm sure the cop haters will say: This is what we spend our money for? This is what he does with it? I say: Too bad more didn't take the time to be more human.

reply to post by Pigraphia


I am not saying that we should not attempt to clean it up, but what I am saying is that monitoring cops is not going to be the way to go about it. We ALREADY have cops doing great wrong on camera. The problem is not a lack of evidence, it is a lack of will on the part of lawmakers and enforcers to treat members of the police force with equal disdain when it is they who have committed an offense.

Whether there is videographic evidence of a crime or not means nothing when vast swathes of the law enforcement community will merely ignore or spin the evidence to suit their ends out of a misplaced sense of loyalty! Look at the horrific mess that the police made of keeping the peace at the student riots we had in London a few years back! It was an unholy balls up from begining to end, and even a chap who had cerebral palsy was pulled from his wheelchair and beaten. Apparantly the police thought him a threat! Video of that event would not make such a thing more likely to be acted on, and as of today, no one has ever been bought to book. I am however, willing to bet that there is CCTV footage of it,from one of the forces many CCTV cameras.

Even if that footage got out, nothing would be done, or will be done, unless ATTITUDES change, not just in the force, but outside of it. People need to learn to demand fair play, equality, and they need to demand that the Law bow to the needs of Justice, when Justices own ends are not met by the Laws means. Without a step change in the way the law is practiced and enforced, not one bit of the behavior of police persons will change one jot. Do not put the cart before the horse.

You have a good idea and intention however as with anything else done to protect the citizens or work in our interest it will be turned around and used against us. Just look at what's been done with dashcams and the recent laws passed to criminalize video taping of officers by private citizens. When they pass laws prohibiting us from using our own equipment to monitor them how can you expect them to willingly allow us to monitor them on an around the clock basis? They are tyrants and tyrants always pass laws and regulations to shield themselves from the power of the people.

You are right, we need to monitor police but it needs to not be done by police or government. We are the stewards of governmental power and we need to start exercising our authority over the government, not letting government police themselves. That is what got us into this mess to begin with.

reply to post by Nucleardiver


Do you have any links on the "you can't video tape cops law" I would love to read up on that as it's 100% unconstitutional if that happened in America.

I don't expect them to willingly allow us to do this.
I don't even care if they fight it.

I want this type of law passed and forced upon the cops.

This also isn't a way for the government to monitor them it's a way for the public to monitor the cops.

As far as this being used against the citizens, all it would catch is criminal activity that the cops is already there witnessing.
The dash cams you refer to have actually protected citizens against cops that have tried to lie on police reports.
Of course the cops weren't charged as it's almost alwayse chalked up to a "clerical error"

reply to post by TrueBrit


I don't think it would be useless.
Every day more videos show up and every day more and more cops are suspended some without pay.
If we generate a flood of videos showing the truth it will be impossible not to prosecute as there would be protests in front of the DA's office day and night.


The whole this problem is so big one thing won't fix it, or this isn't the perfect solution we need a perfect fix won't work.
We need a multitude of fixes and we need to start somewhere.
Why wait for a better fix when we can do this now and when a better fix comes along use that one as well.

Another thing to also consider as well is the fact that most police agencies in North America and Europe now encrypt their radio signals using Motorola Apco 25 Digital Privacy Plus. In many areas of the U.S. you can no longer listen in to the police with a scanner and keep up with breaking news as it's digitally encrypted 100% of the time. The OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) where I live do use encryption with their radio's, but ONLY on the tactical channels and ETF and canine units, regular beat cops responding to everyday calls don't use encryption.

When these police agencies encrypt their radio traffic 100% of the time, who monitors them? Not even local NEWS outlets are able to hear breaking events over the scanner in some cities and they have to rely on information that is released by the police departments to get NEWS about a latest homicide 12 hours after it happened. This is not acceptable in my opinion and the watchers need to be watched more closely than ever before due to the amount of bad apples.

Citizen will make their own police soon
cops cant be trusted anymore like in the old times
look how many are caught doing bad things and stealing
abusing power all the time

reply to post by Ben81


While we are allowed to form militias, sadly this idea might not work at present.
The government currently has too many resources.

It might be easier to force laws upon the cops to protect us, than over throw them.