I need a little clarification please!

Thank you for the responses, I just got to work so i can read them all now. I scanned over them really fast and it looks like I have a lot to learn but, I'm excited to dig deeper into this topic. I waited to research elsewhere because I wanted to hear what you guys had to say first, there are some very intelligent people on here and I thought who better to ask than the ATS fam!

I'm sure I'll be commenting as I read everyone's comments!

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
You about to be flamed and beaten by know it alls in 3...2.....1

Yep I was prepared for a beating! I wasn't sure if I was going to post this but I thought what the heck, I shouldn't feel stupid for trying to learn something by asking a question. A stupid question is the one that isnt asked right?!?! But from the few I've scanned over I didn't see anything bad at all. I wrote this just because I wanted to gain some knowledge and an understanding. I don't think I criticized or offended anyone, I hope I didnt because that was never my intention

Christians celebrate Ishtar instead of Passover, and have for a very long time.

The Nicean Council changed the day to observe the death of Jesus from the Biblical Passover date (the date when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed in the temple while Jesus was being sacrificed on the cross) to a date which the pagans used to celebrate the rebirth of Ishtar (pronounced like Easter).

This Ishtar/”Easter” celebration dealt with the rebirth of Ishtar when she fell from heaven in a large egg and fell into the River Euphrates. She broke out of the egg and she changed a rabbit so it laid eggs. In celebration of this event: the pagan priests sacrificed babies and then dyed eggs in the babies’ blood to honor Ishtar each year thereafter. This date/celebration was used for the death of Jesus by the Nicean Council. So it has been ever since that time. Each year the Christians/Churches do Easter and eggs while they do away with Passover; the real time of Jesus’ death. Traditions of men are more fun, don’t you know! HAPPY ISHTAR!

Notice the dates each are celebrated.

Easter Sunday, from 326 A.D. onward, is always one of the 35 dates March 22 to April 25.” as set forth by the Catholic Church and based on the moon and the feast to Celebrate the rebirth of Ishtar.

As opposed to:

Passover Begins on the 14th day of Nisan (per Exodus 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even) of the Jewish calendar.

Source

Who is cold enough to refuse a time to celebrate with friends and family because of religious beliefs? Oh wait—Christians are.

I dont know how you came to that conclusion, I dont even need a holiday to gather with my friends and family.

Who is cold enough to judge someone based upon their personal bogus assumptions?

Originally posted by Klassified
Christians celebrate Ishtar instead of Passover, and have for a very long time.

The Nicean Council changed the day to observe the death of Jesus from the Biblical Passover date (the date when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed in the temple while Jesus was being sacrificed on the cross) to a date which the pagans used to celebrate the rebirth of Ishtar (pronounced like Easter).

Actually, the date is a bit more involved than that, because early Christians had a variety of ways of celebrating it (during Passover, after it, on a certain date, on the Sunday closest to the date, etc.)

It's always best to check with the experts -- it's their date, so that Catholics would be said experts:

Easter Controversy

As to "Ishtar (pronounced like Easter)", you seem to be of the belief that the early Christians spoke English. They did not, and there is nothing "Ishtary" in the Koine Greek word for the festival, Pascha -- it is derived from the Hebrew word for Passover, Pesach.

The English word may well have a connection to a goddess, though:

The English term, according to the Ven. Bede (De temporum ratione, I, v), relates to Estre, a Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, which deity, however, is otherwise unknown, even in the Edda (Simrock, Mythol., 362);

(Source)

reply to post by adjensen

Actually, the date is a bit more involved than that, because early Christians had a variety of ways of celebrating it (during Passover, after it, on a certain date, on the Sunday closest to the date, etc.)

I am familiar with the debate over this matter, but I was hoping to keep things simple, so as not to write an essay.

It's always best to check with the experts -- it's their date, so that Catholics would be said experts:

I have.

As to "Ishtar (pronounced like Easter)", you seem to be of the belief that the early Christians spoke English. They did not, and there is nothing "Ishtary" in the Koine Greek word for the festival, Pascha -- it is derived from the Hebrew word for Passover, Pesach.

Actually, I'm quite familiar with the languages early Christians spoke, having done many biblical word studies. The idea was to post something those reading the thread could relate to without getting into another essay. The fact still remains, the word Easter has nothing to do with Passover, and Christians celebrate the Pagan aspects of a pagan holiday, whatever name one wants to put on it. It has little to do with the Jewish Passover.

Thanks for chiming in. A good addition...

Originally posted by Klassified
The fact still remains, the word Easter has nothing to do with Passover, and Christians celebrate the Pagan aspects of a pagan holiday, whatever name one wants to put on it. It has little to do with the Jewish Passover.

How is the English word relevant at all? The festival pre-dated the invention of the English word "Easter" by centuries and its original name IS the Koine Greek word for Passover. Further, its dating was associated with Passover, and is only disconnected because the geographically dispersed early Church calculated its date from Passover differently. I'm not sure how much more they can be connected.

Claiming that Easter is an Ishtar festival is rather akin to those who say that Christ is just a relabeled Krishna / Horus / fill in the name of any other ancient figure.

Originally posted by BreeAnna00

Who is cold enough to refuse a time to celebrate with friends and family because of religious beliefs? Oh wait—Christians are.

I dont know how you came to that conclusion, I dont even need a holiday to gather with my friends and family.

Who is cold enough to judge someone based upon their personal bogus assumptions?

Oh you're serious! I thought you were trolling. Apologies.

It's like celebrating saint patrick's day even if you're not Irish—t's a good time; and atheists needn't feel ashamed that they're doing injustice to their faith.

reply to post by adjensen

It applies because I'm posting to English speaking people, and what they are actually celebrating today. I am not speaking to people who speak Greek. We don't say Paschal, we say Easter.

It applies because the word is derived from a much, much older name. Ishtar, Eastre, Eostre, Ashtur, and so on.

It applies because the word is used in the KJV, and it has been called by that name for four centuries. (And I refuse to debate whether or not that is a mistranslation.)

It applies to the OP, and what she said:

Easter is the day when we celebrate Jesus Christ rising from the dead.

Notice she did not use Greek. She used Easter. And notice Christians do not celebrate Jesus rising from the dead. They celebrate a Pagan festival in honor of a fertility goddess who was quite well known throughout many cultures long before Jesus was born in the flesh.

It applies because modern Christians and heathens alike celebrate with eggs and rabbits. No connection there, right?

Claiming that Easter is an Ishtar festival is rather akin to those who say that Christ is just a relabeled Krishna / Horus / fill in the name of any other ancient figure.

If the shoe fits...

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by adjensen

 

It applies because I'm posting to English speaking people, and what they are actually celebrating today. I am not speaking to people who speak Greek. We don't say Paschal, we say Easter.

It applies because the word is derived from a much, much older name. Ishtar, Eastre, Eostre, Ashtur, and so on.

It applies because the word is used in the KJV, and it has been called by that name for four centuries. (And I refuse to debate whether or not that is a mistranslation.)

But the name of something doesn't retroactively change what it is. My post that you tried tying the Ishtar nonsense to was in regards to someone saying that Easter was created to replace a Pagan holiday. That elements of Pagan spring festivals crept into the celebration of a Christian spring festival should come as no surprise, but you'll be pretty hard pressed to find Easter Eggs or Chocolate bunnies referenced in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

I'll presume that you don't believe that the Church Fathers were time travelers and knew that seven hundred years later, someone would ascribe the name of a local deity to the festival, and with that in mind, created the Christian festival to honour Ishtar.

Claiming that Easter was created to honour Ishtar is unsupported by any facts, so it is an irrational claim, and I don't know why you keep digging your hole.

reply to post by adjensen

But the name of something doesn't retroactively change what it is.

I never said it did, sir. The very fact that you wrote the above statement tells me we are not communicating, and you misunderstood my original post about Easter. I was speaking to the topic at hand, and the more modern observance of a very ancient fertility goddess going all the way back to Semiramis and Babylon. Possibly further.

My post had nothing, NADA, to do with retroactively changing anything. It had to do with the way things are, not how they were possibly meant to be.

Good day sir.

Well, on the one hand, we have the evidence that Easter, as a holiday, was set by the Catholic Church for the reasons cited in my earlier link. I have also shown you that there is some modicum of evidence that the word "Easter" may be from another goddess.

On the other hand, we have this masterwork:

Originally posted by Klassified
Christians celebrate Ishtar instead of Passover, and have for a very long time.

The Nicean Council changed the day to observe the death of Jesus from the Biblical Passover date (the date when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed in the temple while Jesus was being sacrificed on the cross) to a date which the pagans used to celebrate the rebirth of Ishtar (pronounced like Easter).

I will ask you again what the relevance of "Ishtar (pronounced like Easter)" has to the Nicene Council? And why the First Council of Nicaea, in 325AD, would date Jesus' feast to coincide (supposedly) to Ishtar's, when the only connection between the two is still centuries in the future? Easter eggs, bunnies, and other aspects of a spring festival are not germane to this issue, we're talking about the determination of the date, set in 325AD.

If you don't want to defend nonsense, don't post it in the first place.

reply to post by BreeAnna00

Christmas is Jesus Christ's birthday, and Easter is the day when we celebrate Jesus Christ rising from the dead.
Why do atheists celebrate biblical holidays if they're not believers?

Dunno, but if you want to live a life unequally yoked and full of heartache and pain then stay with your atheist b/f. Small chance he will ever come around and if you marry him you will spend the rest of your life being belittled until you end up hating the man you're married to. I've seen it happen.

To them its about being with family i suppose, but christmas was never a christian holiday.Christmas was originally called Saturnalia. Yeshua was not born december 25th he was born sometime in mid september and early october near sukkot (feast of tabernacles) when it was still warm enough for the shepherds to live in the fields with their sheep.

Dunno, but if you want to live a life unequally yoked and full of heartache and pain then stay with your atheist b/f. Small chance he will ever come around and if you marry him you will spend the rest of your life being belittled until you end up hating the man you're married to. I've seen it happen.

That is the exact reason why I have had this on my mind so much! He will not give me the time of day to talk about god, and when I try to tell him about government lies, cover ups, and other important things like that, that I know are factually true he immediately disagrees without researching it himself. He does belittle me already, and its all driving me bonkers! I appreciate your input, I have a lots to think about (still!)!

Originally posted by BreeAnna00

Dunno, but if you want to live a life unequally yoked and full of heartache and pain then stay with your atheist b/f. Small chance he will ever come around and if you marry him you will spend the rest of your life being belittled until you end up hating the man you're married to. I've seen it happen.

That is the exact reason why I have had this on my mind so much! He will not give me the time of day to talk about god, and when I try to tell him about government lies, cover ups, and other important things like that, that I know are factually true he immediately disagrees without researching it himself. He does belittle me already, and its all driving me bonkers! I appreciate your input, I have a lots to think about (still!)!

My heart is with you and my prayers, it's a tough decision but as ever put YHWH first. Trust me, you don't want to be in a position where you end up being married to Satan, everyday will be a never ending war and hell on you. I have a sister in my church that's married to an atheist and has been for over 20 years and she says it's just like being married to Satan and it's nearly caused her to lose faith many times and he goes out of his way to hurt her.

I tell you, those FEMA camps and re-education centers they're building aren't being built for fun. There will come a day when they try to re-educate us into believing that all gods are the same God or that he doesn't exist. Obama is spoon feeding us sharia law bits and pieces at a time so as not to "alarm the animals". NDAA, SOPA and PIPA are all aimed at taking away individual freedoms. My guess is the second amendment will go first, with the first amendment right in it's heels. When a person can be arrested in another country to stand trial in the U.S., you know we're one step away from being in a One World Government and iif i am right we will end up with a One World Religion first because that's how Nimrod united humanity the first and last time a One World Government/Religion was made. Nothing new under the sun, we're repeating the past but it gets worse with each cycle until the end. With the discovery of Higgs-Boson particle and all this DNA manipulation and genetic tinkering i wouldn't doubt it if we see crap like the Nephilim arise again.

reply to post by adjensen

This is my last reply to this. Take it or leave it. I recommend research beyond that which shores up your Christian paradigm.

You see the word Easter as being old English derived from an older Germanic word. I see the word as a successor of many before it, all having the same source, straight back to Babylon.

You see the council as trying to establish a proper date for Paschal (Computus). I see the council still trying to establish a new and "universal" religion that had much in the way of competition. Attis, Dionysus, Osiris, to name a few. All of which pre-date Christ by centuries. and celebrate the death and resurrection of said entity. Then you have the fertility rites of goddesses that fall in the same date range. And all come from one woman, Semiramis, who gave birth to Tammuz, the son of God(Nimrod).

When you have created a new religion that has way too many similarities to the old religions, you need councils to figure out how to get the masses to buy into it. Especially when you have made it the official religion of the empire, and have executed and/or exiled the priests of the others.

It is no accident that Christmas and Easter are celebrated on the same days and cycles of a host of other pagan gods and goddesses. To try and make a distinction between all of them to prove Judaism and Christianity is lunacy. Christianity is no less pagan in its roots than all the others before it.

In essence, the only difference between Christianity and Paganism is that one is sanctioned by government, and the other isn't.

So what does Ishtar have to do with the council, and date setting? Everything. It's all Nimrod, Semiramis, Tammuz, and Babylon.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by adjensen

 

This is my last reply to this. Take it or leave it. I recommend research beyond that which shores up your Christian paradigm.

Well then I shall leave it, as you've demonstrated nothing other than a penchant for conspiracy theories and for demising historical records, common sense and logic, where they fly in the face of your theory.

Easter/Ishtar as similar sounding words is a red herring - it means nothing, as regards the dating of the holiday, and all of the gyrations you've tried have done nothing to demonstrate that it does.

reply to post by BreeAnna00


I've only read the OP so far so forgive me if I step on anyone's toes who has already responded...

Christmas is Jesus Christ's birthday, and Easter is the day when we celebrate Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Why do atheists celebrate biblical holidays if they're not believers?

These holidays are days off and they're kind of hard to ignore.  

I think atheists celebrate the American commercialized version of these holidays. For many, Jesus has been replaced by Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Sadly, this is the case for many Christians too.

Why have atheist forgotten about the most important parts of these holidays?

You can't forget something you never knew. Just sayin'...

Why have atheist forgotten about the most important parts of these holidays?

You can't forget something you never knew. Just sayin'...

Haha, fair enough!!!

My heart is with you and my prayers, it's a tough decision but as ever put YHWH first. Trust me, you don't want to be in a position where you end up being married to Satan, everyday will be a never ending war and hell on you. I have a sister in my church that's married to an atheist and has been for over 20 years and she says it's just like being married to Satan and it's nearly caused her to lose faith many times and he goes out of his way to hurt her.

I tell you, those FEMA camps and re-education centers they're building aren't being built for fun. There will come a day when they try to re-educate us into believing that all gods are the same God or that he doesn't exist. Obama is spoon feeding us sharia law bits and pieces at a time so as not to "alarm the animals". NDAA, SOPA and PIPA are all aimed at taking away individual freedoms. My guess is the second amendment will go first, with the first amendment right in it's heels. When a person can be arrested in another country to stand trial in the U.S., you know we're one step away from being in a One World Government and iif i am right we will end up with a One World Religion first because that's how Nimrod united humanity the first and last time a One World Government/Religion was made. Nothing new under the sun, we're repeating the past but it gets worse with each cycle until the end. With the discovery of Higgs-Boson particle and all this DNA manipulation and genetic tinkering i wouldn't doubt it if we see crap like the Nephilim arise again.

Thank you so much. I know exactly how your sister feels, its a mixture of emotions that nobody wants to feel. I hope her situation gets better, everything will work out the way it's suppose to.

I agree with everything else above. Our rights are disappearing as we speak.. There is a confrence on July 26th for the UN to discuss the 2nd Amendment, that tells me they are going to sign for it. I told my boyfriend exactly what was going to happen 8 months, I told him about vaccines also and he literally said I was stupid, I know nothing about history or how the government works, and none of that would ever happen in America. I said it HAS happened before and thank you for proving my point, that is the exact attitude that got us in this position. I live in San Diego and I absolutely HATE it here, having to hear up to 3 helicopters fly over my house every hour of every day is freightning. I decided to move to Boise Idaho with my parents and Im praying it will be before SHTF!

Originally posted by BreeAnna00

Christmas is Jesus Christ's birthday, and Easter is the day when we celebrate Jesus Christ rising from the dead.
Why do atheists celebrate biblical holidays if they're not believers?

I'll let you in on a little secret but you have to promise not to tell anybody.

There are a lot of Jews who celebrate christmas, (not as a biblical holiday) they put up trees and exchange gifts and even hang lights on the outside of there homes!

I have even been told that some even make up Easter baskets for their small children.

Remember, don't tell anybody, it is just between me and you.