The Many Hands Played By Race – A Multitude of Opinions & Thoughts

Hello ATS community.

As you all know, recently and for as long as I can remember, race has been a very touchy subject here on ATS. Normally conversations on this topic are filled with vitriol and keeping these conversations civil is trying to ask a fish to live out of water.

Asking this of humans in today’s 21st century PC world is, quite difficult, almost impossible to do on the best of days, with the best of people. Today I propose an experiment. I will be discussing a multitude of different opinions on race. These opinions are hardly my own, (well some of them are as I agree with the differing sides.) they are taken from various staff members who assisted me in formulating my ideas and some members from the boards over the last few years of me being here.

A few conspiracy theory angles will also be presented just to add flavor.

Allow me to begin with my personal thoughts on race and it’s place in our current society, I will the move on to each individual opinion that I’ve gathered and want to discuss.


Race Is Non-Existent – We Are All Members of the Race of Man

The color of your skin, in no way determines whether or not you are a human being. Placing labels on people and calling it race, based on skin color is an exercise in insanity and must be discouraged to the fullest extent of our freedom of speech.

Everything else is cultural differences, or ethnic differences, brought on by the environment your ancestors lived in for thousands of years prior to you being here.

Genetically I would wager that most humans are 99.5% identical, and that the .5% difference is simply the result continental conditions.

After all, if the discrepancy was wide, enough to “prove” that race existed; we would not be able to foster offspring with certain other humans.

So to me race is a non-issue, it does exist and it cannot be used as a qualification to determine the worth of any human being, how they are supposed to act or how they are supposed to be treated. The entire thing is insanity and should be discouraged in today’s world that I’ve started calling people racist for just mentioning anything regarding race.

Mind you just to get their attention so I may explain myself. Most people understand, but nobody changes their thinking or approach to how they discuss race, which is the important thing to do.


The Hypocrisy of Science

It was brought to my attention, that the same science which attempts to prove that race is non-existent, that we are all one race, is often also used in environmental protection of certain animal species.

In the example provided, the spotted owl I quote the following:

I say that because the same science that is often used to argue that "there is only the human race and everything else is just cultural" is used to argue that a small swath of land in the Pacific Northwest should be sheltered from any logging because the little spotted owl which lives there may be slightly different from the spotted owl which resides two ridges over in another swath of timbers and, thus, is a unique species of owl. Never mind the fact that genetically, they are as alike as siblings, never mind the fact that their appearance is identical, and never mind the fact that there is absolutely no barrier to natural breeding between the two. They are both spotted owls, yet science claims that locational diversity makes them each a unique species.

This is quite the interesting piece of information in my opinion and shows how we as humans want to treat ourselves as being equal, yet strive to find the most inconsequential differences in other species as a means to divide further and separate, catalogue as much as possible.

This particular person also finished by stating that the entire race argument was brought on far more by political ideologies than science in the end. This brings me to my next opinion.


Race is Only a Means to Divide & Control Us Further

This idea I’ve discussed with various other topics such as left vs. right, man vs. women, but never thought about it in the context of “race”. Although it should seem obvious that if the Powers That Be were attempting to control us, keep us fighting amongst ourselves as opposed to fighting them, that they would choose things to use against us that were very rudimentary.

What is more basic that skin color, nationality and continental differences; brought on by centuries of your ancestors living in different parts of the world, developing slightly different features because of that environment.

To divide us against each other, at such a basic level seems like it would accomplish a great many things to those who wish to control our minds and continue the status quo of enslavement that we’ve experienced for a very, very long time.


Race as seen from the View of Spirituality

Another discussion had among those who have assisted me in this has been of the spiritual nature. The idea that deep down, to the very core of our souls we are all the same; we are all energy all part of the laws of one.

One of my favorite quotes is by the late Carl Sagan.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff.”

Source

What an inexplicably beautiful and profound thought. That the only real difference between us as humans or living beings are which stars provided the star stuff that eventually created us?

Many different cultures speak of the spirit being one and that all humans are the result of a single entity. Be in God, Yahweh, Allah or any other of the spiritual gods past and present; most of them taught us that everybody was to love equally and not treated any differently for our differences.

Because in the end, we are in fact all star dust and to discuss such trivial differences, as if they decided what kind of person we would become, or were expected to be seems a bit silly in the larger outcome of things doesn’t it?

This thread was not only written with the intent of discrediting race apologists and those who truly believe that those small differences mean something. It was written as means to show us that even with all the different opinions posted above, and those that will no doubt be posted below, in the end, using race as a negative, will never help us move forward.

We must all, at some point agree to cherish each other’s differences, culturally and ethnically. As one other member mentioned to me, different does = good and there is no lack of different among the people of Earth.

However, we must, if we ever intend on moving forward in our cultures, societies and remove ourselves of the shackles of control that we have been placed in, stop looking at what is outside ourselves and begin counting what is inside.

Thanks for reading and again if you disagree with what has been written here and wish to argue points made by myself or other members, do so with civility and prove to this community that these conversations can be had, without pages and pages of T&C violations.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Very well done!

Nothing futher to discuss as far as I am concerned. You seemed to have covered all bases. Not sure how anyone could OR would want to argue about it, unless of course, they enjoy our enslavement and find it easier to attack those who are about as helpless as themselves, instead of focusing on who is creating these divides in the first place and why.......

S&F

reply to post by seeker1963


Thank you.

Really I expect there will be some naysayers and that's find, I encourage the discussion as long as it remain civil.

I hope people expand on these thoughts above and list some of their own, I covered a wide range of topics but I'm sure there are angles or specifics I've missed.

Thanks for reading

~Tenth

Thanks 10th.

100% agree.

Its reasoning & logic like this that drew me to ATS, I'm glad to be in such good company, keep up the great work as Mod mate.

S&F Excellent post, I hope it doesn't get trolled.

However, I firmly believe that race is a biological construct and not a social construct.
For example, There is a %1 difference in the genders (male/female). Now we all know how vastly different the two sexes are from a physical to an emotional/mental standpoint. We all could agree that gender is a biological construct, right?
There is also a %1 differences amongst the races. That would make it biological not social. To say it's a social construct is also in essence saying the differences between man and woman is also a social construct.

Just my thoughts.

ETA: I agree with everything else

Originally posted by kimish
S&F Excellent post, I hope it doesn't get trolled.

However, I firmly believe that race is a biological construct and not a social construct.
For example, There is a %1 difference in the genders (male/female). Now we all know how vastly different the two sexes are from a physical to an emotional/mental standpoint. We all could agree that gender is a biological construct, right?
There is also a %1 differences amongst the races. That would make it biological not social. To say it's a social construct is also in essence saying the differences between man and woman is also a social construct.

Just my thoughts.

edit on 5-7-2012 by kimish because: (no reason given)

Good, these are the kind of responses I was hoping for.

And I agree with you partially. Yes there is a genetic difference between races, but it mostly varies at the .5%.

So it is biological, but the difference IMO is not grand enough to warrant discussing any different races. The male/female thing is a different subject, and I wonder if it applies, simply because all species mostly have a male and female version of itself that are differnet biologically simply on for the basis of reproduction.

I think more so today race is used as a social construct in order to further divide us and although we must appreciate out ethnic diversity we should not use it to give ourselves more problems from the socio-economic viewpoint.

Great contribution, thank you for reading and sharing.

~Tenth

Absolutely spot on

Nothing at all for me to argue with here. I believe the first step in this would be to forgive ourselves first and foremost.
It's difficult to accept others physical/religious differences if you don't respect yourself first (not in the ego sense), but that people tend to reflect their insecurities towards other people. Kind of like subconsciously blaming others for your own misfortune. I tend to like the saying "The problem starts at home". Everything you've posted, perfect!

Allow me to open the door for some dissent....

What is at the core of this issue? Is it "what does it mean to be human?' or "Is 'human' enough of a standard to evoke 'equality?' "

Most pay lip service to the idea of equality; embracing the power it gives them, but rejecting the responsibility it implies.

When we encounter a person, how do we decide what "attitude" to take with them? Is it solely based on one thing? For some it seems to be. Some have had terrible experiences clashing with the differences between them and those who are "not" their kind.

In the end it is about how we define ourselves, as in personally and internally. Since our institutions encourage us to cluster based on criteria they profess authoritatively, those refusing the definition of "who they are" might be risking community rejection... now if the difference that they cling to is coupled with a skin color, a style of dress, or a "blasphemous" rejection of a common religion ... well... therein starts the passion play.

If I define my existence around an aspect of myself that is a physical affectation, then I will likely judge others by that metric... and the more different you are, the less obliged I will be to grant you the same "equality" I would want (or demand) I be given.

Also, this "race" thing is a two-way street. We see many cultures (most of which seem intent on including their biological characteristics in the definition) who constantly beat the drum of their color, or heritage as a rallying cry to either achieve, or maintain social power. This - while in many cases spurred on by entrenched bias against them - is like "fighting fire with fire" - the result of which usually results in the weakening of the social edifice (or an "eye for an eye" where the result is everyone being equally blind.)

Let us not forget that this modality of perception defies reason - as the OP clearly points out, and one might think in an age of relative enlightenment the distinction would melt away... but somehow it remains.

I know there are those who have never had a bad experience with a member of a different 'race' but hate them anyway... this is a symptom of something more dangerous than ignorance.... it comes from somewhere external and is coincidentally "useful" to some institutions (and the people who dominate them)... need I specify which? Probably not.

Is it natural for birds of a feather to flock together?... clearly it is... only mankind seems to have decided that such a natural tendency means those different from you can be marginalized, exploited, considered "untouchable," heretical, and even somehow "mystically" qualified to be considered "evil" or even hunted and killed. Yet in nature, one does not see all the black-furred animals refusing to mingle with the white-furred ones.

I suggest that lacking this one element of bias would make no difference... another would be invented to replace it...

I think our current "Race" issue is actually Culture..

Imagine if we bilndfold everyone in the world and put them together.. if everyone speaks same language(culture), no one will be able to tell the different.

We pre judge people by looking at the differences between "them" and us. In the end, everyone will do what everyone else do.

I see this when i see a mother of a different colour than me interacting with her baby... it is exactly as my mother would.

I think if everyone can see everyone else's life, i think everyone will understand each other more.

reply to post by luciddream


The old " Walk A Mile In My Shoes" mantra.

It's quite the valid point and in most cases I would venture a guess that those people who were bigotted or racist or saw race as something that divided folk would quickly change their minds after living a day in the shoes of somebody else.

Great thoughts thanks for reading

~Tenth

Racism is not the issue. It is merely a vessel used to carry the real problem: that humans dislike that which is different from them. It can be race, politics, religion, physical differences (like weight, height, etc). If there is a difference between 2 human beings, it will somewhere (and at some time) be leveraged.

Race is just a soup du jour. Perhaps mankind would be better off with the "let bygones be bygones" attitude. Put what happened to your grandad behind you, and focus on making what happens to your grandson a whole lot better. Until people quit ignoring this obviously logical approach, race will be every bit the divisive factor.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I agree.

But first we must educate those who believe race is still an issue, so that they may in fact learn to love people for who they are, regardless of our little differences.

Thanks for reading

~Tenth

"What does it mean to be human" is the one (for me at least).

I personally never use race or religion to "attack" physically or verbally. This doesn't mean that I'm a "perfect example of light", far from it. Those that know me personally, know I'm prone to serious outbursts of rage. It's all about conditioning. This stems from what we're taught or see around us as children. My father taught me with clenched fists! So I followed suit. Many years later, I hurt one person too many, and in an instant.......felt their pain, along with a whole line of other people in that line from the past. Basically had an epiphany. My mother has always been a good woman (she left the old man many years ago) and guided me into spiritual (not religious) teachings. Meditation kept me from going any further down the "old path", then I tried to impart what I was taught, to anyone who would care to listen. But nobody listens due to their conditioning, so I steer clear of any serious religious debate. Religion can be excellent for some, and hideous for others depending on their perception and conditioning. Do they focus on the God aspect of their chosen book, or do they focus on the war aspect? That's where they have a choice.

In my opinion, every bodies story is vastly different, and at the same time so similar (in all the minor details) that people have to figure out their own walk. It's not until you hit the brick wall and fall down, will you change your ways. My children have helped calm me a lot, to the point where I don't normally react......unless something becomes personal, that's my demon. Again in my opinion, having a positive attitude but neutral emotion, in other words accepting that every experience everyday, good or bad is a learning curve and needs to be taken notice of and acted upon.

reply to post by Stonesplitter


We all are prejudice in one form or another. It is institutionalized. Why would a 6 bedroom in Compton sell for less than a 6 bedroom in Malibu? The neighborhood generally is the reason.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Stonesplitter

 

We all are prejudice in one form or another. It is institutionalized. Why would a 6 bedroom in Compton sell for less than a 6 bedroom in Malibu? The neighborhood.

Isn't that a great point.

So by your beliefs we are all taught to be prejudice towards one another. Does society do so, or does that come from our parents?

Either way, an interesting form of control as in my OP no?

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I think it is a mix of learned prejudice mixed with personal experience.

I have my own prejudices that I have learned from personal experience. THey cause me to be cautious when finding things that are similar. Does this mean i forever keep that prejudice? No. I am cautious at first, then as i get to know you over the ensuing moments, i begin to relax.

It is the same with anything. You may be accustomed to white men with long hair/beards being rude. I know I am. We have loads of 1%ers out here in West Texas. So when I first see a biker looking guy, I am cautious. It can't be racism, because I am white, too (and have a beard, and only recently cut my 3 foot long hair). It isn't even about me being unlike that guy, because I was very similar to him. And people were stand offish about me, as well.

Funny thing. I cut my hair and now i serve on local civic boards. I have gone from a marginal part of the community (running a call center that they really didn't like to begin with) to being asked to sit on director boards. All over my hair being cut and me now looking more like them.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


For sure. But why is the neighborhood like that to begin with? Are people forced there? Do they voluntarily move there? Can they afford to live somewhere better? I guess people can either accept their fate, so to speak or they can make that personal effort to change. I believe everybody has the power to do so, but sometimes need to hit that brick wall before they realize this. Everybody has a breaking point, and at that point.....you make a decision. For better or for worse. It doesn't help the heart and soul while we're being bombarded with false media, but we can still turn the t.v off!

I really think that the 'race card' is increasingly a sinking ship. The smaller the world becomes in terms of communications networks the harder it is for those to emphasise such superficial differences. Human populations have moved, merged and assimilated with each other for tens of thousands of years, and will continue to do so. Language barriers have been broken, and culture is now increasingly viewed as the social construct that it is. The only real hurdle in our way is, as the OP states, our inability to look inwards, and concentrate on our own personal development, and to instead seek others to blame or on whom to focus our dissatisfaction. When we all seek to make the outside like the inside and the inside like the outside (to paraphrase Jesus), and become fully realised human beings, we can hope to move forward from being so easily herded into dissenting pens. All divisions are imagined, and while we allow others to manipulate and control our imaginations, those divisions will persist. It is a very sad truth that those who are dissatisfied with their own lot, and feel themselves hard done by, will always seek someone else to blame, and as sad, that there are those quite happy to identify that scapegoat for them.

reply to post by Stonesplitter


What drives slums? What feeds the slum all of its denizens? There are many reasons in the different nations.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Sort of amazing how in the 21st century we still judge people by appearance as opposed to skill set, mindset and worth.

I suppose this is what it is all about, considering that all race is, at the end of the day, is the colour of your skin.

At least in my opinion.

~Tenth