Ancient Stone Shaping and Setting

reply to post by Stonesplitter


Hello,
New here to the site and find this topic fascinating because I have in my hand a small rock whistle not unlike what I would expect from a rock carved using a softening and removing/shaping method to create. Its form is just too plastic for what I believe to be a brittle rock. I have been searching for ways to shape a rock easier than carving. The more I compare this small rock with other examples, the further back in time I seem to be researching. If this method was applied to large rocks, certainly there must be smaller examples as well. I might be holding one and it is picking my brain.

The gouges pictured above look like they could be a test rock. That is, different mixtures applied to soften the surface and soft rock scraped off. That would be the practical explanation for such a rock.

I have worked with pottery, and the idea of thixotropic substances does not seem so far fetched especially the way they behave when in such a state. Vibration could certainly play a part in tooling to help liquify or increase the flow of solid appearing substance. Similar ideas of vibration are also used in masonry and concreting. The marks on the stones, that appear to be handles do make the stones look fluid, almost like they were pulled from the surface, just like a thixotropic clay body. Perhaps a test of the resetting process? Done more often on the larger stones? Smaller stones around them (my experience with catalysts) might have been employed to speed up a solidifying chemical reaction. OK, unproven theory but get me the chemical mixture and I'd love to test it out!

I have believed for a long time that these close-fitting stones were lapped into place using water and an abrasive. I would look at a photo of a stone wall like the first one in the OP, and determine by eye in what order the stones must have been lapped in.

However, there was always one detail I cold not explain, and that was the bumps toward the bottoms of the stones. Many stones had none, some had one, some had two. Is it possible that the stone was poured in a plastic state, and that the bumps were like mold flashing?

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
However, there was always one detail I cold not explain, and that was the bumps toward the bottoms of the stones. Many stones had none, some had one, some had two. Is it possible that the stone was poured in a plastic state, and that the bumps were like mold flashing?

I have wondered it these bumps might be evidence of some kind of attachment. I have only seen the bumps in pictures, but some are also up the sides of stones. I tend to mix abstract thoughts together and one that the whistle has brought, what is the purpose of a whistle? Why make a whistle from stone when wood or clay would be easier? To establish a tone, to repeat a tone or to be able to repeat the same tone consistently. The vibration of tone. String instruments, tuning string instruments. If I consider the stones fluid or semi fluid state, why not see these bumps as a location to place tone or vibration? A string or rod perhaps could easily send a tone into an object when strummed or magnify an existing sound wave in the air. Would evidence show up in the stone on some molecular level?

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
However, there was always one detail I cold not explain, and that was the bumps toward the bottoms of the stones. Many stones had none, some had one, some had two. Is it possible that the stone was poured in a plastic state, and that the bumps were like mold flashing?

You can see these bumbs on big stones in egypt too and there is an simple explanation. Those stones had to been quaried. While quarying a 3D Block you to undercut it. These bumps where the last point where the block was attached to the surface.

Here you can see an example: protopopescu.org...

reply to post by Spartanian


OK, I get it - just like the "keels" on the backs of the Easter Island statues...

reply to post by Stonesplitter


What seems odd to me is the shapes of the rocks in the first two pictures. If who ever built these walls were so good at shaping stones why are all the rocks so irregular?

From the Geological Society of America website (gsa.confex.com...) What remains of the Saqsaywaman complex are large limestone blocks along with some shales, plasters and limonites. So these are sedimentary rocks.

Could it be that they just found the rocks, laid down flat, exactly as we see them. That these rocks were a product of some natural geological formation. I am not saying standing up as they are now but laying down flat.

I am not a geologist but have done a fair amount of exploring, once I found a formation of limestone rocks on a hill that were similar. They were roughly 2 feet by 2 feet in diameter laying flat and had very small spaces between them. I was convinced that Indians or someone a long tine ago had put something in the ground and placed the rocks over it, I had an army shovel with me but couldn’t get one up. I did manage to get the shovels tip part way between two of the rocks but when I pried up the shovel bent. Not giving up I returned with a 4 foot crow bar. I had to use the bar to widen the cracks and after an hour or so pried up one of the rocks, others came out more easily and then proceeded to dig. There was nothing below the rocks but undisturbed caliche. After exploring the area more I could see that this formation of rocks with small cracks between them under laid the whole area but was only visible where erosion exposed them.

They would still have to transport and reassemble them but it would eliminate the question of how they were shaped. Its just a theory.

reply to post by aires


Just recently I was visiting Saltos del Laja, in Chile. A large waterfall that falls over a dense rather even composite layer of rock with soft mud under and above the rock layer. Easy to see when looking at the falls with low water flow. The water flow cuts vertical lines into the stone and undercuts the mud layer removing support. With time, the stone can no longer stay at the top, it break off and falls adding to a pile of unusually cubic looking collection of rocks below the falls. Many blocks about 2.5 meter cubic in form.

wiki link

Also Search: Saltos del Laja, images and scroll thru the photos. I have photos as well but having difficulty posting, sorry. I think simple physics would explain why these rocks tend to break off at certain lengths.

Here is an example of nature providing building blocks. Ready to drag off, chip or grind to fit.

I don't think it would take much effort to guide erosion (cutting of the blocks widths) from above the falls when water levels are low letting nature do most of the work. Which means searching for an ancient quarry should be expanded to include not only open type quarries but also river beds or ancient water flows.