Police Attempt To Raid Garage Sale with AirSoft gear, Get Kicked To Curb (video)

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
I just went back and watched the clip.. and didn't see it.. give me a timestamp on this video so I can see what you are posting about... if that happened, then I will be angry as well..

Go to about :51, I get seasick watching the thing. The attitude cop walks up and starts going through their stuff, they ask him what he's doing, he gives them the sneer and says "It's my right to look". Until he notices they're recording him and they start asking for a super he's blowing them off. The guy's got a real crap attitude the whole way through. Seriously, if you gave a cop that body language on the street it would go downhill real fast - I've nearly gotten shot doing it to buddies when their associates didn't know me. The whole shoulders back, chest out, direct stare with your head tipped forward thing walking up to them really freaks the other guys out.

And truthfully, it isn't his right to look if it's not unlawful. Check out the body language the cop's giving off. It's way way different than the other two cops later.

Heck, I've seen people CARRYING guns at some local flea markets - they come in as buyers with their guns- mostly vintage/antique but guns none the less- but when people stop to look or say what ya got there, they mention it's for sale.

I never thought about it being illegal to sell guns. lol I don't guess anyone around here does either. The only thing I ever thought was that was a sneaky way to get past having to pay the flea market owner's selling fees.

It doesn't make sense that someone can call and the police can then come go through your stuff. Anyone could call the cops about anything on anyone. They still should have to have a warrant.

If it was in plain sight, they should just be able to look from the road like anyone else and hopefully ID the air soft guns. You'd think...but then my sister nearly got arrested for having a rosemary plant a cop thought was pot. I still haven't figured that one out.

reply to post by Bedlam


So you are basically saying that your previous quote was just your interpretation.. and not what was actually documented in the clip?

Just want things to be clear here, some folks might not have the ability to view the clip...

Originally posted by Domo1
I really disliked the cops attitude, and also the woman's.

My impression is that they're both shiny examples of all that's best in mankind.

Not only are they both jackasses, but it sort of seems like they've got a lot of history with all the "I know YOU - dealt with you BEFORE" "OH, no, I dealt with YOU before" thing.

One has to wonder if she did this to get a response, and the cop responded because it WAS her, she was awfully ready with the cameras, and it looked like at least one of them wasn't a cell phone. I don't carry a motion camera around, although I admit I used to keep disposable 35mm's in the truck before cell cameras.

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
reply to post by Bedlam

 

So you are basically saying that your previous quote was just your interpretation.. and not what was actually documented in the clip?

Just want things to be clear here, some folks might not have the ability to view the clip...

Yes, he didn't call them a peon, No one actually said "tut tut miscreant" either.

reply to post by Bedlam




No worries.. just thinking about folks like me that usually rely on the posts, and have bandwidth issues that cause us to forego viewing the actual video.. (in this case, I couldn't help myself)

Thanks for clearing that up

reply to post by Bedlam

And truthfully, it isn't his right to look if it's not unlawful.

See I think it may have been his right to look for a number of reasons. The first being that this was an event opened up to the public. The second that he most likely was unaware the seller owned the property, and the third that I believe if something is in plain view like that police can investigate.

If a person got pulled over and had a very realistic looking airsoft gun on the backseat, I believe the cop would be completely within his rights to search the vehicle, or at least investigate the 'weapon'. I don't know anything about airsoft guns, only that I have seen a few and they looked VERY real from a few feet away.

reply to post by Bedlam


My impression is that the cop and the woman were having a little pissing contest. I really do think both parties were acting childish, and made a big to do of essentially nothing. You are right about the cops body language and demeanor. He was being a prick. Her being a constant pain in his ass in no way justifies rule bending.

I just don't know if he walking onto that property was trespassing. I certainly wouldn't call it a 'raid'.

best to give cops a hard time. make them hate their jobs. nowadays it's a disgrace to be a cop, almost taboo. Theres a reason children are born being afraid of police nowadays. At one time yeh it was a respectable position. but for the past 30 years every cops needs to be treated like # by the public. The majority (yes the majority) of cops are douchebags with tyrannical problems. I've had the pleasure of meeting the entire (or close to) police in my city. every single one of them is douchebags. I see kids get pulled over by the whole police station for no reason. I got pulled over by the 5 cop cars a while back for having a burnt license plate light, what makes it even more ridiculous is that neither of my license plate lights were burnt lol

Honestly? This video made me all kinds of happy. Thank you guys so much. It's tough for most people to work up the courage to say no to the police, especially in the moment. It's a shame. But, you guys handled it well. It saddens me to see all the people on this thread talking trash because of this video. The truth is, little battles like this begin to add up. If enough people speak up for their rights, the whole world could change. Cheers.

Originally posted by Domo1
See I think it may have been his right to look for a number of reasons. The first being that this was an event opened up to the public. The second that he most likely was unaware the seller owned the property, and the third that I believe if something is in plain view like that police can investigate.

Well, if you had a table full of little bags of white powder and a sign that said "Nose candy $100" it might be probable cause. With the proviso that private firearm sales are legal there, though, if you walked up and started asking me "Hey, what's this - what shape's it in?" I'd have a nice talk with you - I've swapped lots of firearms with cops. If you said "It's my right to look at whatever I want" and gave me that sneer thing, though, I'd be sending you hence if I had to get the state police there to do it.

For the other part, it's a mix of local precedent and the legal system. Here, if you're a cop, you would likely have more leeway walking into someone's yard on the basis that it's "public space", the SO don't have nearly as much freedom to do that without exigence or warrant because it's curtilege. No one said the legal system's rational.

If a person got pulled over and had a very realistic looking airsoft gun on the backseat, I believe the cop would be completely within his rights to search the vehicle, or at least investigate the 'weapon'. I don't know anything about airsoft guns, only that I have seen a few and they looked VERY real from a few feet away.

In that case, the cop would be well advised to separate you from the car for his own safety during a stop. In a lot of states you can't carry uncased and loaded in a vehicle, although I can here. I might add that little extra was legislated in because the cops had flagrantly abused their "concealed weapon" charges in the past, everyone got tired of it and now they're actually in more danger on stops. Prior to the change (years ago) cops used to brag that you could dangle a sidearm from a string to the rearview mirror and they could still prosecute you for concealed firearms on the basis that the string concealed a part of the weapon or that the front surface concealed the back. Well, that was fun for a while, but it shows you why we can't have nice things, I suppose.

Just as an aside, if the cops change their behavior when you record, or when a supervisor, lawyer or judge appears on scene, they likely were doing something they aren't totally sure they are in the right to do. If the cop had just said "Record away, I don't care, make sure you spell my name right" and kept going with what he was doing, it would have been funny. Stopping and walking to the sidewalk instead - I dunno - it seems to me like the guy knew he might have been in the wrong, or wasn't totally sure he was in the right.

edit to add: of course, the fact that they feel assured they can do a particular thing isn't proof it's right either - the classic thing being the cop that made us pick up garbage some years back. "I'm the law, I'm giving you an order, so it's a lawful order!" didn't turn out to be quite as consonant with the actual law as he thought.

Airsoft guns are marked by having an orange plug over the barrel of the gun.

It looked to me as if these peopel had removed all the orange markings from the guns, and as such are presenting them as leathal illegal weapons.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Airsoft guns are marked by having an orange plug over the barrel of the gun.

It looked to me as if these peopel had removed all the orange markings from the guns, and as such are presenting them as leathal illegal weapons.

I used to make a decent amount of money importing Airsoft guns from Hong Kong and reselling them. The whole orange tip thing is a gray area. I've done tons of digging myself, and actually paid a cheap lawyer his minimum 2 hour fee to look into the issue for me. Basically, unless the replicas are crossing state lines or being imported into the country, they do not need an orange tip.

If these were real guns, why do you refer to them as "lethal illegal weapons?" You do realize real firearms are perfectly legal, right? You do also realize that private party sale, where a private citizen sells a gun to another private citizen, is perfectly legal without any sort of license or paperwork, right?

The only POSSIBLE crime there would have been selling illegal select fire guns, or weapons the violate minimum barrel length regulations. But, it's impossible for the cop in the video to know if any of those guns (IF they were real) were select fire, as pretty much every single popular assault rifle out there is made in a semi-auto only model for the civilian market. It's also perfectly legal to own, sell, and buy full-auto firearms made pre-ban.

Just like it's perfectly legal to own, buy, and sell shotguns and rifles whose barrels are shorter than the minimum length regulations. In both cases, all that's needed is to pay a tax stamp and file some paperwork.

So basically, there is ZERO evidence that these people where doing anything illegal, ZERO probable cause because there is no law being broken regardless of whether or not the guns were real.

If someone calls the cops and says "the neighbors are selling guns" the correct reply from law enforcement should be "So what? That's perfectly legal. Please stop wasting police time"

Originally posted by JacKatMtn

Originally posted by Bedlam
But the whole "Ok, #bag, up against the wall, I have the right to take your crap! Stand aside, peons!" .

when did that happen here? I just went back and watched the clip.. and didn't see it.. give me a timestamp on this video so I can see what you are posting about... if that happened, then I will be angry as well..

he was refering to the part at 0:53
where the cops say "stand back we have received a call that you might sell weapons"
he said this quite loudly with a negative tone the woman didnt like
thats why she told the cop to GTFOut my property

did you see the video ?

Heh. Thread jack...

Here's something NOT to do to cops.

I have a buddy named Mike who left FR to become a SWAT guy in a major metropolitan area. Mike's one of those people who's real intimidating without being more than middling big. I don't know if he just oozes it out of his pores or what. No one's ever been able to figure it out. Mike does a lot of interrogations for that pd, it's like a bird looking at a snake when Mike comes at you. He also teaches interrogation techniques.

We lived in the same neighborhood and got to be pretty good friends, he was a few years older than me, and when he came over we'd do that weird guy greeting thing where we get up in each others faces and dog cuss each other, it used to freak the old lady out.

So one day I see Mike on the street in civvies with some other guys dressed the same way. I walk up, growl "Mike, I got you now, you syphilitic jarhead arsehole", bow up, drop my head and start stalking toward him. Now, I'm middling good size, and had a full ZZ Top beard at the time, people used to lock their doors when I pulled up alongside them on my bike. I get about three steps and every one of his buddies goes bug-eyed and starts whupping out sidearms from various holdouts. Turns out they were also SWAT on some sort of deal. Luckily they didn't pop me but I think some of them were pretty startled. Mike was laughing his butt off.

This video is all kinds of stupid. This isn't even reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion is , the leo's get a call from a neighbor saying "Hey I think they're selling guns in that house over there" well how do you prove it? You'd have to get a warrant. No judge is granting you a warrant off of that. You'd have to have your bureau investigate it first.

What you're seeing in the vid is Probable Cause, the leo's get a call saying, "Hey It looks like the people over there are selling rifles in their yard/garage sale. Officer drives by, looks over and sees what appears to be rifles being sold at a yard/garage sale.

Probable Cause:

a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true.

It's reasonable to think that an airsoft is a close enough approximation of a firearm that it might warrant taking a 2nd look. Officer takes a look, finds out that they're selling toys...crisis averted.

If someone kicked down your door with a Metal M4 airsoft, you'd be justified in shooting them, that's how real some of these things look.

Similar scenario, some (Insert the minority that you're afraid of here) moves in next door and you happen to observe them loading some large zip lock bags in their garage onto a table with a green leafy vegitation inside. Then they bring out some taped up bags filled with white powder. Then they lay two handguns on the table.You call the cops, they pull up to the scene, you would expect them to see what the hell is in those bags correct? If the guys started yelling at the leos saying "Get off of my property!!! , You have no right!!" and the officer goes, "Oh, I guess I have to leave now" You'd be thinking "WTF!?!?" Guns and drugs out there in the open on the effin table!?! What more do you need?

The leos enter the garage and it turns out your minority neighbors were filming a low budget PSA on the dangers of stereotyping, and what you saw were the props from the shoot earlier in the day. leos leave, everything is nice, nice.

You know what allows them to do that? PROBABLE CAUSE!!! If it walks like a duck, Quacks like a duck... c'mon.

Why do so many people on here think its illegal to sell a gun at a garage sale? Hell i bought a 12 gauge in a gun store parking lot....from the owner of the gun shop. No background check, no atf forms. 100% legit as it was the guys personal gun, not being sold in the gun shop (but he stores his personal guns in the back). This guy is cool and just wants me to get the guns i want.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


Your missing something though...

You need probable cause that a CRIME is being committed. Private party sales of guns is NOT a crime, so what exactly did they have probable cause for? They needed probable cause that there was illegal gun sales taking place. They had zero evidence for such a crime.

This would be like the cops coming to your garage sale with NO guns being sold, and say they have suspicion that you are selling stolen property. No real reason, just the simple fact you are selling goods means those goods COULD be stolen. That's not probable cause, that's called a fishing expedition.

reply to post by James1982


It depends on your state what is and isn't legal. In MY particular state you need a Firearms Purchaser ID card. In addition to that the flash guard & bayo lug on the airsoft would magically turn it into an evil "Assault Weapon" were it an actual firearm. That standard magazine that holds more than 15 rounds? same thing...Jail.

Here if you walked up to a sale, didn't have an FID card and simply picked up a rifle...congrats, you've just committed a crime of the fourth degree.

Also, you don't know the history of the people having the sale, apparently that particular officer has been there several times. If it was on a DV, they can't have firearms, convicted felon? same thing.

If it's in a state where this type of thing is the norm (selling firearms at a yard sale) and the officer wasn't in his right, then it might be an issue. There's too many variables unknown to tell.

Originally posted by Ben81

Originally posted by JacKatMtn

Originally posted by Bedlam
But the whole "Ok, #bag, up against the wall, I have the right to take your crap! Stand aside, peons!" .

when did that happen here? I just went back and watched the clip.. and didn't see it.. give me a timestamp on this video so I can see what you are posting about... if that happened, then I will be angry as well..

he was refering to the part at 0:53
where the cops say "stand back we have received a call that you might sell weapons"
he said this quite loudly with a negative tone the woman didnt like
thats why she told the cop to GTFOut my property

did you see the video ?

Big difference from what I was asking the other poster... and yes, if you have been following your own thread, I did watch the video..

Laugh all you want.. I am laughing myself...