Iran lawmakers prepare to close Hormuz Strait

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Romekje
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

If Iran wants to shut down their sea territory they can do it all day long as it will not affect the Straights. They are international waters by treaty.

Secondly sanctions are not an act of war. An Embargo would be under UN laws / treaties. If we use that argument then one could say Iran has declared war on Israel by refusing to trade / but their products and vice versa.

A nation can choose with whom they will do business with and won't do business with. Iran has made it very clear the sanctions are not affecting them and apparently have bbuyers lined up left and right.

Or are they lying when they make those claims?

edit on 4-7-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

I don't agree when you initiate an attack on a foreign country under any form it is an act of aggression & therefor an act of war.
Who cares what international law that is very open to interpretation and wasn't written by Iran says, an attack is an attack no matter how you try to polish it up.
Tell me when a country is under attack do they usually abide by international treaties which allow the enemy to resupply or do they set a defensive line and inhibit them as much as possible. Sorry boys those oil tankers are 13miles of the coast not 12 better let them go resupply the enemy.
Yes any nation can choose who to do business with but when that nation starts to use its power to influence/threaten everyone else to do the same then you change the ball game and it becomes something more than exercising a personal right. FYI that new ball game is called war.
This is a poor analogy at best "Iran has declared war on Israel by refusing to trade / but their products and vice versa"
How about if Iran is the worlds to dog and not only does it cancel trade with Israel it bullies/bribes/threatens/manipulates most of the other people who trade with them to do the same, effectively crushing their economy causing internal strife and suffering of the people. Then imagine Iran constantly manipulates world media & opinion against them calls for preemptive strikes, initiates cyber attacks and assasinations and then moves mass amounts of millitary hardware of their borders.
When you lay it out a little clearer yes 100% Israel or America would consider such actions an act of war.
Someone likend this to closeing the gulf of Mexico, well sorry if US was in Irans position I highly doubt oil tankers would be cruising just off the coast of mexico on rout to Iran.

reply to post by mbkennel

The UN has declared the Israeli blockade of Gaza legal.

U.N. experts say Israel's blockade of Gaza illegal

Israel's naval blockade of the Gaza Strip violates international law, a panel of human rights experts reporting to a U.N. body said on Tuesday, disputing a conclusion reached by a separate U.N. probe into Israel's raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship.

Who cares what the UN says anyways, they blow in the wind like a piece of tumble weed. Either way, it seems that various members of the UN disagree with you. Go ahead and read it, it's pretty long though (it's straight from the UN website). Here is just one member of the UN speaking out against it.

General Assembly Adopts Six Resolutions, Concluding Debates

PHAM VINH QUANG (Viet Nam), associating himself with the Non-Aligned Movement, said Israel had yet to cease the construction and expansion of settlements and the separation wall, and its blockade of the Gaza Strip continued to keep millions of Palestinians in dire circumstances while displacing many more from their homeland. Viet Nam had long recognized the Palestinian people’s fundamental and inalienable rights to self-determination and their right to create an independent and sovereign State, he said, adding that it therefore supported the application by President Mahmoud Abbas for full United Nations membership.

If Iran decided to blockade Israeli ports they would be blown to smitherines. So for you to use NATO reasoning as a justification for the Gaza blockade leaves me almost speechless.

This document straight from the UN website proves that NATO has seperate bodies within it who just can't seem to agree with eachother. So no, NATO as a whole has not deemed the blockade as legal.

we all need to consider something here, The US government, particularly Pres Obama wont be so quick to engage Iran militarily, the American people just dont want it, and its an election year, plus can anyone really afford a large period of military action, especially against an opponent that can defend its self. What will the reactions of China and Russia have in effecting the reaction of Nato, EU and the US.

Iran isnt stupid, it knows any military action taken against it right now will cause outrage, i can see the arab headlines now - 'you attack Iran as Syrian children die'

reply to post by fnpmitchreturns


The U.N. Law of the Sea treaty has many BS laws in it that has nothing at all to do with the Sea. Gun laws for civilians is a big one. No Congressmen or woman who values his or her life will sign it.

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
reply to post by fnpmitchreturns

 

The U.N. Law of the Sea treaty has many BS laws in it that has nothing at all to do with the Sea. Gun laws for civilians is a big one. No Congressmen or woman who values his or her life will sign it.

Just another in a long list of treaties America refuses to sign yet tries to hold others accountable to.
All is fair in love and war and a lot of things become null & void in a time of war especially things like law of the sea so it is not even valid here as Iran is under attack in one form or another and has stated it is willing to let countries who are not part of this attack to use the straits.

Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by Cassius666

 

I dont hear or see any Iranians protesting about their leaders and you know what its not my business nor the business of my country.

YOU don't hear anyone Protesting because you are not there and those who protest tend to end up DEAD! What you have just posted here is my NEW STUPID POST OF THE MONTH WINNER!!! BELLS RING! FIREWORKS LAUNCH AND EXPLODE! CONFETTI DROPS!

YES! YOU ARE THE NEW BIG WINNER! CONGRATULATIONS on beating everyone else out...and believe me there was a wide field to choose from...on posting without a doubt...EL POSTE ES STUPIDO GRANDE!

And what do we have for the Big Winner? A SARCASTIC REBUKE and you name forever listed on the POSTS OF SHAME BOARD!

Now on a serious note...although I have just gone on like an IDIOT....although it FELT GOOD....I know an IRANIAN BORN FAMILY that went through HELL and almost were KILLED trying to get to the U.S. They run a Breakfast/ Luncheon Spot and have all become AMERICAN CITIZENS as well as having had children who were born in the U.S. which makes them an automatic U.S. Citizen.

My Girl and I go there for BRUNCH on occasion and I talk with both the Father and Mother who escaped Iran with two children...they now have four...and the Mothers Father...and they try to get in touch with relatives there. The General Feeling in IRAN right now is...the VAST MAJORITY...over 92%...desperately want REAL FREE ELECTIONS AND THE OLD GUARD TO DIE OUT! IRAN has a population where over 70% of all people are UNDER THE AGE OF 30 YEARS OLD!

These very nice IRANIAN AMERICANS have told me that the Iranian Leadership does not care what the people want but cares for only what they want or can STEAL FROM THE PEOPLE! There is a Massive Uprising that will occur again very shortly and if the IRANIAN LEADERSHIP were to do something as STUPID A CLOSE THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ....not only would the U.S. Military have to act but the NEW LEADERS OF A DEMOCRATIC REBELLION would be their to HELP!

For you to say what you have here on this post is an INSULT to the BRAVE AND DEAD as well as those who are still interned or right now being tortured IRANIAN YOUTH who want nothing more than you or I do or have. The Current Iranian Leadership has a maximum 12 Month Lifespan....and THEY KNOW IT!

Split Infinity

reply to post by la2


They could try and pause the elections if they cause a big enough false flag like a nuclear attack or something either why the US has to make it look like their the victims cause i don't think the people going to fall for the "IF your not with us then your against us" speech but then again they might

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
reply to post by fnpmitchreturns

 

The U.N. Law of the Sea treaty has many BS laws in it that has nothing at all to do with the Sea. Gun laws for civilians is a big one. No Congressmen or woman who values his or her life will sign it.

I see a big problem with the US trying to use this treaty to force open the SOH. The reason US will not sign it is because we would give up sovereignty...

yet some people us it to invade the sovereignty of another country ...

BS to say the lest!

Originally posted by buster2010
As far as the inbound part of the straits they have every right to close because it goes into their coastal waters. But commercial ships that aren't hostile to Iran has every right to use the straits as marine law dictates. And any country that supports sanctions against Iran are committing an act of war against Iran so they have every right to close it to them.

Sanctions are not an act of war

Moreover all that has to be done is declare a different port for tankers than one in a country that supports sanctions - simple

Or if that is too difficult rearrange the shipping lanes to be outside Iran's waters - there's plenty of room to do so.

Map of the shipping lanes in the straights

reply to post by Xcathdra


Good to see Iran standing up for itself.

90% of you people are delusional. There is a 6nm wide strip up the middle of the strait that is international waters . If Iran chooses to block the straight of Hormuz , including this 6nm wide strip , they would have to either build giant blockades or use force. Either of which are going to cause violence that none of us want. all for f-ing oil. wtf

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
reply to post by fnpmitchreturns

 

The U.N. Law of the Sea treaty has many BS laws in it that has nothing at all to do with the Sea. Gun laws for civilians is a big one.

Indeed - what it says is that the state of registry shall determine the legality of carrying guns at sea.

No Congressmen or woman who values his or her life will sign it.

Try denying ignorance instead of demonstrating it!

Originally posted by la2
we all need to consider something here, The US government, particularly Pres Obama wont be so quick to engage Iran militarily, the American people just dont want it, and its an election year, plus can anyone really afford a large period of military action, especially against an opponent that can defend its self. What will the reactions of China and Russia have in effecting the reaction of Nato, EU and the US.

Iran isnt stupid, it knows any military action taken against it right now will cause outrage, i can see the arab headlines now - 'you attack Iran as Syrian children die'

Indeed, though, Obama and the 'American People' don't decide,

when you ponder the ramifications they can easily be altered,

US attack Iran, Obama's rating lowers in unsettled 'Public', the Elections gets fixed and Obama is back, unless 'They' want Romney,

either way, you or i, or even the president for that matter doesn't decide,

Originally posted by roguetechie
reply to post by DukeEligos

 

You are aware that the US actually gets very little of it's oil from the middle east right? According to NPR the US sources less than 1/8 of it's oil from the middle east whereas the European Union sources nearly ALL of their oil from said area.

www.npr.org...

Pot meet Kettle....

Anyway. What really vexes me is the fact that we seem to be doing Euro dirty work for them as usual while the Euro governments and people sneer and jeer at the sacrifices of blood and treasure we make to secure THEIR oil supply.

If your body lost 1/8 of its water content how healthy do you think you would be? Hint: loose 15% too rapidly and you are dead. That applies to a fragile economy too when that economy uses more oil than any other society in the history of history.

And it is not just the US that you need to think about. Other nations that get their oil from that region will be very much affected and when they get sick the US will cough. You have to look at the total loss to the entire system otherwise you have a narrow aspect of the affect.

So, let the tankers go through on the UAE side. Problem solved.

But if Iran tries to blockade UAE waters, well, send their tinker toy ships to the bottom.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
So, let the tankers go through on the UAE side. Problem solved.

But if Iran tries to blockade UAE waters, well, send their tinker toy ships to the bottom.

The moment Iran starts dropping mines no insurance company on earth will cover any tanker that gets burned. That will stop the flow.

Iran is like that little boy who keeps calling wolf. I predict this is more of the same on Irans part, global political theater.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by buster2010
As far as the inbound part of the straits they have every right to close because it goes into their coastal waters. But commercial ships that aren't hostile to Iran has every right to use the straits as marine law dictates. And any country that supports sanctions against Iran are committing an act of war against Iran so they have every right to close it to them.

Sanctions are not an act of war

Moreover all that has to be done is declare a different port for tankers than one in a country that supports sanctions - simple

Or if that is too difficult rearrange the shipping lanes to be outside Iran's waters - there's plenty of room to do so.

Map of the shipping lanes in the straights

Why do people keep saying this "Sanctions are not an act of war " of course they are, they are an attack on another country and as such an act of war in any real mans world. Whether the victim of them decides to retaliate by some means doesn't change what it is. pieces of toilet paper signed by overpaid usless burecrats don't change cold hard facts either.

Do you realy think it is as simple as changeing lines or ports, why not just go the long way round, not like people will mind paying $10/L for petrol.

en.wikipedia.org...

General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in January 2012 that Iran “has invested in capabilities that could, in fact, for a period of time block the Strait of Hormuz.” He also stated, “We’ve invested in capabilities to ensure that if that happens, we can defeat that.”[36]

Is Dempsey right?

It depends on how Iran would attempt to block the strait. Any fan of the NFL can tell you that there is blocking and then there is blocking.

As one of Napoleon's generals once told him, when asked for a guarantee, "In war nothing is certain."

You'd think the UAE would have had a canal built by this time through there, somewhere between Umm al Qaywayn and Khawr Fakkan.

Tensions heat up, they open up their canal to shipping, charging a fee of course, heh.