Con Ed Curtails Services After Talks Break Down

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jibeho

 

How does that exonerate management? The FACT is that millions of people are counting on Con Ed to keep services running. Putting innocent, uninvolved lives in danger during an emergency situation is BEYOND wrong. It is criminal. Can't the stupid negotiations wait until a "strike" or a "lock-out" would not endanger people?

Well...Con-Ed did ask for a two week extension on the talks/negotiations...the Union said no. Put the blame where it belongs...please.

Des

Originally posted by wildtimes
SENT HOME, not "out on strike".
Big difference there. It's the management that's to blame, not the workers.

reply to post by Destinyone

Well...Con-Ed did ask for a two week extension on the talks/negotiations...the Union said no. Put the blame where it belongs...please.

Okay, happy to.....but
If people die, who is going to be blamed?
My point is that it's no time to break down negotiations and leave innocent people hanging in the balance.

My concern is the fact that between the two of them, mgmt and workers, there are many lives at risk. Why is "push" coming to "shove" at a time when innocents are dragged into the fray?

reply to post by defcon5

Are there so-called "scabs" stepping in to keep it going?

sigh.

I just don't think the MONEY thing should be a trigger, with so many people dependent on the utilities' operation.

edit: I am not, nor have I ever been, part of a union. I simply think that this type of "lock-out" or "sabatoge", on whose-ever part it is, is wrong. Now is not the time.
Does that make sense?

I understand about leverage. It's shameful that the workers chose to do this....it's also shameful that the management said "okay fine." They are both wrong.

Once AGAIN the unions are being BULLIED by big business and their cohorts in government. NYC is republican so no suprise there.

The company would rather people die of heat stroke than give employees livable wages and respectable pensions. Makes me mad as hell!

Reaganomics 101

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

The company would rather people die of heat stroke than give employees livable wages and respectable pensions. Makes me mad as hell!

Yeah. That. Me, too.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Once AGAIN the unions are being BULLIED by big business and their cohorts in government. NYC is republican so no suprise there.

The company would rather people die of heat stroke than give employees livable wages and respectable pensions. Makes me mad as hell!

Reaganomics 101

I used to work long ass hours as a maintence guy at a juice factory. I hated it. I was pissed off nightly. An old man working there was just as calm and serene as he could be, no matter what was going on. One day he told me this..... "They told me what they would pay when I took this job. They always pay me what they promised, and I always show up and do what they ask. That was the deal."

If someone doesn't like the job, they are more than welcome to go get a different one. I don't understand the problem? An employer says they have a position, and it pays x dollars with x benefits, take it or leave it. Fair deal. Either you are in or you are out. Where are they the bad guy? The employer is not trying to cut benefits or lower pay, the employees are the ones trying to renegotiate the deal. The employer should have every right to just put their cards on the table and say take it or leave it.

I was an arrogant kid back then, and even I could see the wisdom of that old man. It has saved me a lot of stress over the years to realize they are paying me for my time, and it is my duty to deliver what I promised. It really is not that difficult of a concept.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


New York City Republican???? Give me a link stating that....

Des

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

New York City Republican???? Give me a link stating that....

Des

Sure. HERE it is!

Current mayor

Main article: Michael Bloomberg

The current mayor is Michael Bloomberg, elected as a Republican in 2001, re-elected in 2005 with 59% of the vote, and elected to a third term in 2009 with 50.4%. He is known for taking control of the city's education system from the state, rezoning and economic development, fiscal management, and public health policy. In his second term made school reform and strict gun control central priorities of his administration. On June 19, 2007, he filed papers to leave the Republican Party,[citation needed] thus becoming an independent.

He could declare himself an independent all he wants, but he is a republican thinker.

reply to post by Destinyone

Des,
I have no quarrel with you... I generally enjoy your posts and comments....
but. Republicans in NY is reality. Wall Street is there....the bane of human sustenance. They want to send jobs overseas; they want to pay pittances to the worker drones and reap the benefits of the "profit maximization" for their "shareholders". It's backward, destructive thinking.

I don't know what your political leanings are, but...is it so hard to imagine a world where everyone is "O. K." -- regardless of their job? Do the CEOs really need to have billions of dollars of net worth AND huge bonuses? At the expense of the working people?

reply to post by getreadyalready


Some employers are more ethical and honorable than others but the purpose of unions is to provide solidarity for the workers to combat the greed driven motives of business. There needs to be a balance of power and individuals cannot bargain effectively.

A right wing government could care less about workers since they allow and encourage massive offshoring of corporate resources in the process of saving a buck for the stockholders. Left wing governments(more like center right) are a bit more balanced but still not socialistic as such. The nationalisation of industry is required for socialism to work.

Why would employees turn down the only mechanism that is capable of helping them get bye? Sooner or later we all become slaves to business working 2 or 3 part time jobs with lousy pay and benefits. Sorry not my cup of tea!

I respect your opinion but I do not have to agree with it.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Once AGAIN the unions are being BULLIED by big business and their cohorts in government. NYC is republican so no suprise there.

The company would rather people die of heat stroke than give employees livable wages and respectable pensions. Makes me mad as hell!

Reaganomics 101

Define livable wage please.

This is from 2008 when these Con Ed workers were at the negotiating tables demanding higher wages and rejecting plans for traditional 401k programs.

Wages at Con Edison appear to be healthy for workers without college diplomas, with a general utility worker, the equivalent of an Army private, earning $15.20 an hour to start and topping out at $25.35, which translates into about $52,000 a year for a full-time worker. Meter readers can earn as much as $31.92, mechanics up to $36.33, though it may take them nearly 20 years to reach that level. Splicers like Mr. Burns can earn more than $38 an hour.

www.nytimes.com...

a variety of other positions at Con Ed

www.glassdoor.com...

Originally posted by wildtimes
Are there so-called "scabs" stepping in to keep it going?

edit: I am not, nor have I ever been, part of a union. I simply think that this type of "lock-out" or "sabatoge", on whose-ever part it is, is wrong. Now is not the time.
Does that make sense?

I understand about leverage. It's shameful that the workers chose to do this....it's also shameful that the management said "okay fine." They are both wrong.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


The free market should handle all those things without the need for unions, but sometimes it fails due to Keynesian policies of the government.

The employers will pay as much or as little as they can get away with for current market conditions. If the best and brightest employees are going elsewhere for better pay and conditions, then the employers have to up their game, but if the marketplace is flooded with illegals and unemployed people and they are willing to work for nothing, then the employers have every right to scoop them up and profit from it. Maybe the employers find out that it is a bad idea to hire unskilled laborers, or maybe they find out that it works just fine.

If the employees are unhappy with the arrangement, they should be out looking for a better gig, and take it when they find it.

This is not a good time to be out looking for a better gig.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Destinyone

 

Des,
I have no quarrel with you... I generally enjoy your posts and comments....
but. Republicans in NY is reality. Wall Street is there....the bane of human sustenance. They want to send jobs overseas; they want to pay pittances to the worker drones and reap the benefits of the "profit maximization" for their "shareholders". It's backward, destructive thinking.

I don't know what your political leanings are, but...is it so hard to imagine a world where everyone is "O. K." -- regardless of their job? Do the CEOs really need to have billions of dollars of net worth AND huge bonuses? At the expense of the working people?

Thank You Sweet Pea...this old Southern Gal enjoys your posts too.

But, that doesn't change the fact that Democrats are in the majority in New York City. I was addressing the assertion by another poster, that NYC is Republican. It doesn't really matter where the Power structures are based, they will do their evil from wherever.

The Politics of New York State tend to be more liberal than in most of the United States, with in recent decades a solid majority of Democratic voters, concentrated in New York City and some of its suburbs, and in the cities of Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Albany. Republican voters, in the minority, are concentrated in more rural Upstate New York, particularly in the Adirondack Mountains, the Alleghany Mountains, Central New York, and in parts of the Hudson Valley. Despite the imbalance in registration, New York voters have shown a willingness to elect relatively centrist Republicans to local offices, though not in the Presidential election.
en.wikipedia.org...

I think it's horrible that adults, of any persuasion, can't put the interest of people first, when faced with the situation they are facing now in New York. The heat will kill some people. All I can do is pray, and post about it here.

Des

doesn't it bother anyone that the actual reasons (detailed reasons) WHY the members want to go on strike are never mentioned in any news articles?. it's always the unions that are portrayed as the bad guys, and the companies are just trying to take care of their customers.
unions make up ONLY 7% of the nations workforce, but they are the ones portrayed as being "job destroyers", "lazy", "corrupt"....i thought here on ATS, we are the ones that have critical-thinking skills, and are suspicious of corporate propaganda....apparently not.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by wildtimes
Are there so-called "scabs" stepping in to keep it going?

edit: I am not, nor have I ever been, part of a union. I simply think that this type of "lock-out" or "sabatoge", on whose-ever part it is, is wrong. Now is not the time.
Does that make sense?

I understand about leverage. It's shameful that the workers chose to do this....it's also shameful that the management said "okay fine." They are both wrong.

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Here is an article for you:

Badgering New York
Why was it so hard to rescue teens from beatings in juvenile facilities upstate? Because unions cared more about saving jobs than protecting kids.

Why can’t the city fire incompetent or dangerous teachers — including for sexual misconduct? Because the United Federation of Teachers refuses to consider amending state law to streamline the disciplinary system.

Why can’t the Metropolitan Transportation Authority keep the trains running at a reasonable fare? Because the Legislature would never take on the Transport Workers Union by reforming labor laws (see editorial below).

20/20 did an expose on these teachers who are too dangerous to allow around children, yet are unable to be fired because they are protected by their unions. This is only one of the abuses I can mention. Lets just say that I left working at the Eastern Airlines Facility at my airport, just prior to them going on strike, because it became too dangerous to stay in the building any longer, and I was just a third party bystander at the time.

You want to know why Pan AM, Eastern, TWA, and other major airlines either went bankrupt or had to merge to survive? Their unions ran them into the ground with overhead that could not be sustained over time. Want to know why two out of three of the Auto manufacturers had to be bailed out? You want to know why the US now has one of the worst education systems in the world? Their unions...

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Firing people for severe incompetance is necessary but that still does not negate the need for unions NOR paint them as evil and undeserving. Corruption exists everywhere especially with big business and their cohorts in government, but people pick the easiest target and that is unions.

Once unions are removed from the equation america will become a banana republic similar to honduras and nicaragua. Is that what american right wingers really want?

The companies you mentioned did not fail exclusively from high wages, the cut throat competition killed them because some one always undercuts you in price and service. You would be correct in assuming I hate free market capitalism because I think it places unreasonable demands on the management and especially on the workers.

I would rather work 40 hour weeks in ONE JOB with reasonable benefits and a reasonable retirement package. If I work more than that then give me my time and a half pay or double pay on sundays. If corporations can be greedy then so can the workers. I don't need the bought out government forcing me to be a slave in this sinking republic.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


So...you declare a whole city is Republican, I counter with a request for a link proving that, you give me *one* person...

That's quite a stretch, I think.

Des

reply to post by jimmyx


One of my employees walked in while I was reading this thread, and he mentioned a discussion his wife and he had this weekend. His wife is also upset at the ConEd strikers apparently. She was reminded about a meat-processing plant that used to be here locally. Every time they would go by the plant, a handful of workers were out picketing, and the plant was constantly in the news. Eventually it just closed down.

How did all the picketing help anyone? Conditions and wages didn't get any better, and the plant either went out of business or went to Mexico or somewhere. All those picketers eventually found themselves looking for some other job, and it was likely a lower paying job than the one they were picketing. The business couldn't afford to pay more and still be competitive, so it just packed up.

7% of the workforce is a significant amount of the workforce, especially when we are talking about key positions like education.

My brother just quit teaching high school because of his teacher's union. He took a lower paying job at a small college, because it didn't have the union dues and outrageous pension plan. He was paying in 14% of his paycheck to his pension fund, and his employer was matching that with another 14%!! His school used to offer several choices for health insurance, but the union renegotiated, and they were left with a single choice that was pretty worthless. It didn't cost much, but it didn't cover anything except major medical. So, a large chunk of his paycheck went to worthless insurance and a pension plan that he didn't really want.

Now, instead of that, he took a lower paying job, but his takehome pay will be higher, and he won't have the nasty parents and nasty administration and nasty union folks to deal with. The union is driving away the better teachers, just like the unions are driving away the better employers, and driving away the better consumers.

Originally posted by jimmyx
unions make up ONLY 7% of the nations workforce, but they are the ones portrayed as being "job destroyers", "lazy", "corrupt"....i thought here on ATS, we are the ones that have critical-thinking skills, and are suspicious of corporate propaganda....apparently not.

reply to post by defcon5

Chances are that they are overpaid compared to other industries, with higher skill demands, in “Right to Work” states such as Florida.

The problem is they are probably higher paid, but they probably have less bring-home pay. The Union takes their enormous cut, and the union chooses the pension managers, and the union chooses the healthcare plan, and someone is getting a piece of all that. The union plays both sides, and only the union benefits. in the long run the company pays more and the employees get less.