democrats sold us out to corporations!

Originally posted by muse7
I honestly believe that John Roberts either

a]. Grew a conscience

or

b] Got disgusted by how radical the GOP has become.

or maybe it was both a and b

john roberts closed the front door on the abuse by the radical left of the commerce clause. which is good.
but john roberts opened the back door to the taxing power of congress.
hows an abortion tax sound to you lefties? say $50,000 paid for by the receiver and the provider.
or non ownership of a firearm tax?
or birth control tax? say $3,000 per year
or maybe ?????

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
I'll give you an example of how you're wrong. If you're intelligent...just for a second, you'll see that the healtcare plan has nefarious plans in regards to insurance corps.
This bill is meant to bleed them dry by 2025.
www.reddit.com...
Dems are liberating you from the devil you don't know for the devil you do know.

This is partially right, but different.

The companies won't go away, they will consolidate and get bigger (just like banks).

And, they will become government contractors that will administrate all healthcare.

Medicare and Medicaid already use outside contractors as needed.

They are all under that new 80% - 85% rule already in effect.
(the larger the company, the higher the percentage is)

That means 80-85% of health care premiums must be spent for actual health care, or returned as rebates to patients or employers paying the insurance.

I would say that the larger companies will easily sustain this rule.
(I believe they had lobbyists hard at work during the writing of the PPACA)

The smaller companies won't.

Now we get "consolidation" as the larger companies take over the smaller companies, or the larger companies sell more policies as the smaller companies go out of business. Either way, the larger companies get bigger.

This scenario is similar to the big banks "eliminating" the small banks.

At the same time as this happens, we also see less "resistance" from the insurance companies to healthcare cost increases from the "providers".

The costs go up for actual service and the insurance companies complain less because they must spend the money anyway, and as soon as that 80% - 85% margin is breached, they simply raise the rates to maintain profits.

Insurance is a pyramid scheme.

The ones getting super rich from this is the health provider companies. Most of them are large corporations.

ObamaCare (a.k.a. PPACA) has no provisions for price controls of service (I think).

The very largest insurance companies will be the survivors.

The very largest providers will be the survivors.

Most small companies will be bankrupt.


Looking at "Who Pays"...........

The "taxpayers" do:

a) directly through the "exchanges".

b) semi-directly through your employer.

c) indirectly through the penalty for not having insurance.

The "taxpayers" not only pay for the "collectivism" of healthcare among themselves, the "taxpayers" also fund the non-taxpayers through "subsidies", Medicaid etc. etc.

PPACA is a massive tax increase on people making less than $250,000 a year.

The insurance and provider companies are large corporations with consolidated stockholder structures.

reply to post by xuenchen


exactly. the mega insurance will survive as long as the government allows them to. but when the costs get out of control, which they will, expect the iron fist to come crashing down.







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reply to post by bjax9er

exactly. the mega insurance will survive as long as the government allows them to. but when the costs get out of control, which they will, expect the iron fist to come crashing down.

And so goes that the government will survive as long as the corporations allow them to.

Medicare "contractors" (corporations) have been consolidating. All per the wishes of the industry I am sure.

All the legislation is passed by ways of lobbying and political "support".

The corporatism is obvious.

The "insurance" industry makes just as much if not more off of the "socialized" programs.

The large medical industry complex (insurance / administration / provision) is the iron fist.


What Is a Medicare Contractor?


23 New Medicare Administrative Contractors Replace Medicare’s Current Contracts


Medicare Maps / Jurisdictions

reply to post by bjax9er


The same can be said of the Republicans.

Once again, people are using the party attack as though this was the result of one government. Bush started the bailouts. Bush gave tax cuts to the wealthiest people in America. Bush did nothing to stop the sale of the US government to the wealthiest bankers and corporations on the planet.

This is not just a party issue, its the culture of politics throughout. Any attempt to brand one party as the failures and sell-outs will be met with incredulity by most intelligent people, because we know that BOTH parties are bought and paid for.

Reply to post by xuenchen

Have to agree with you whole heartedly, xuenchen.

We've been duped into the new regime. The corporate regime. It may have happened 40 years ago, or as little as 10, but we are in fact a corporatocracy. Our politicians and policies are purchased and paid for in advance.


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Reply to post by xuenchen

Have to agree with you whole heartedly, xuenchen.

We've been duped into the new regime. The corporate regime. It may have happened 40 years ago, or as little as 10, but we are in fact a corporatocracy. Our politicians and policies are purchased and paid for in advance.


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Originally posted by spinalremain
Reply to post by xuenchen

 

Have to agree with you whole heartedly, xuenchen.

We've been duped into the new regime. The corporate regime. It may have happened 40 years ago, or as little as 10, but we are in fact a corporatocracy. Our politicians and policies are purchased and paid for in advance.

 

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Many people think it started small in the mid and late 1800's.

In earnest, the forming of the Federal Reserve and IRS got the ball really rolling (in the U.S.)

The worldwide central banking systems and general worldwide tax structures are the NWO.

Reply to post by xuenchen

For sure! Wilson's presidency definitely added to the increasing porblem we have today in the Fed and the ever present state of debt.

Citizens Untied and ACA falling under the Constitution are just gross examples of how convoluted and disgusting things can become out of normal problems with normal debates. We get these wild out of touch results.


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Originally posted by bjax9er
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

oh you mean when fdr by means of the new deal forced corporations to provide insurance to their employees.
the result of that alone started the upward trend of healthcare costs...

No, although one could easily go back that far. This started with Reagan's deregulation.

reply to post by bjax9er


You are half correct. The Republicans sold us out to corporations as well. Bush started the bailouts and passed the so called patriot act as a mean to protect us when in reality its to monitor us and control the markets for the lobbyist.

You would have the worst business model in the world , if you are willing to spend billions a year in lobbying to bet on 50/50 odds on which party is in control.

It makes no business sense for these lobbyist to spend billions solely on the democrats. Wake up , the lobbyist control BOTH republicans and democrats because it makes business sense , and it ensures a 95% return on their investment. That is why Republicans like the Democrat are for bigger gov't besides in verbal rhetoric, that is why Bush like a Democrat increased gov't powers, programs,and the bailouts.

Lobbyist control congress ,congress controls the market and the consumers,congress tells us what we can and can't buy and use the tax payers money to buy products and services from the lobbyists. Why wouldn't lobbyist wan't bigger gov't if they control it? Why wouldn't lobbyist want misuse of gov't spending, if it is being used to buy their product and services on the tax payers paycheck? Why would lobbyist want to close down illegal immigration if it benefits the large agriculture industry with cheap unprotected labor that the tax payers picks up the bill for?

Its all about money, period. No religion or party ideals in Washington is above it.

Forget blaming the Democrats and the Republicans and vice versa and come together and agree solely to concentrate on the REAL issues in washington and not the symptoms. The real issue is the grey area between our gov't and the lobbyist and the special interest groups, the symptoms is the immigration,economy,welfare,social security,medicaid,etc.

There is no reason why Democrats and Republicans can't come together and demand that the only issues that are to be of importance in the next election is corruption. Until you get rid of the temptations and corruption in Washington neither republican nor democrat ideals matter. Once you get rid of the corruption and temptations than it makes sense to argue about ideals, but right now its lobbyist who run the gov't. Lobbyist only care about profit which supersedes party ideals . Don't be naive people , please wake up and hold your party accountable.

1. Bush did the bailouts , spent crazy money, and expanded gov't power.
2. Voters got angry and elected the opposing party
3. Obama continued the the bailouts , spent crazy money, and expanded gov't power.
4. Voters get angry and want to electe the opposing party
5. X gets elected and passes things that benefit the lobbyist and burdens the tax payers. repeat the cycle.

That has been working great for us, hasn't it


Seriously, forget party ideals and put them aside. Concentrate on the real issue and that is corruption in Washington and come together on both sides on resolving the corruption. All individual republicans and democrats should want to fix the corruption and they can easily come together on that issue. The reason they don't is because neither the DNC or the GOP wan't you to address the corruption issue in washington because its not in there best interest.

So according to the OP, Obama is a Socialist that supports and believes in corporations. UMMM. Corporations are the very essence of modern Capitalism and Capitalism is the opposite of Socialism.

Agreed, both parties are owned. All this anti-government talk I find amusing. It is like attacking the puppet and ignoring the puppeteer.

Originally posted by wittgenstein
So according to the OP, Obama is a Socialist that supports and believes in corporations. UMMM. Corporations are the very essence of modern Capitalism and Capitalism is the opposite of Socialism.

At the very highest levels of the worldwide agenda, it's called "Marxism / Corporatism".

The have much in common.

It's the largest international corporations in league with the largest governments.

The small local independent businesses don't fit in that category, and seem to avoid it as much contact as possible.

Originally posted by bjax9er
reply to post by seeker1963

 

yes the real problem is the progressive "masterminds" in both parties.

I love the negative use of the word progressive. Progressive is a positive word...it means to advance, or to move forward. Progress is a good thing, being progressive is a good thing. I understand it has been used for quite a while to describe liberals or those wanting new social reform... but lets face it, this usage is not very intelligent.

You oppose the "progressives," putting yourself on the opposite side of the fence than them.

You do realize that the opposite of progressive is regressive right?

Which means by using this statement you are openly using this term you are basically saying that you strive to make this nation less advanced, less forward thinking and developed.... and this is a good thing somehow?

So club your wives, drag them back to the cave, and have a good 'ole regressive time.

reply to post by Osiris1953


actually genius, the term "progressive" comes from the communist party inside the u.s.
when the term communist became a bad word, they changed it to "progressive".

yes to move forward, but forward to communism...

whats obamas campaign slogan???

Forward

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by bjax9er

 

Both parties have sold out the American people.

Get it right next time, partisan shill.

yes i'am a partisan shill, and proud of it.
do i wish to compromise with with a party who tramples the constitution every chance they get?
should i play along with the party who practices class warfare?
the party who lies constantly?
the party of race hustlers?

no, screw the democrats, and screw compromise. thats how we got here.
and screw you, you bipartisan hack. your the problem.

“actually genius, the term "progressive" comes from the communist party inside the u.s.”

bjax9er
?????????????? Please read more history before spouting nonsense.
“This period notably included the emergence of the Progressive Party, founded in 1912 by President Theodore Roosevelt"
FROM
en.wikipedia.org...
WOW! Theodore Roosevelt was a commie!
What is really sad is that you didn’t even take the 2 or 3 minutes for a google search that would have erased your misconceptions.

“should i play along with the party who practices class warfare?”
bjax9er
Actually, I agree. The Republicans have declared war on the middle class.
More taxes on the middle class and less for the elite.
Obviously, you side with the international corporations and not with American citizens.
www.theatlantic.com...
www.deathandtaxesmag.com...
thinkprogress.org...
www.opposingviews.com...
factcheck.org...
I look forward to our debate. I consider you a sparing partner. Someone obviously not equipped for a real debate but useful as a way to prepare for worthy opponents.
PS; You also need to take a course in logic. Suppose you are right (you are not) that Communists invented “progressive”. That proves nothing about what current progressives believe. That is like saying “democracy” was invented by the Greeks and they believed in slavery. Therefore, our current democracy is evil because it must believe in slavery. Obviously, your “reasoning “ is absurd.
Here is a good place to start.
en.wikipedia.org...

The current fiscal chaos was caused by deregulation. Wall Street caused this crisis because of financial deregulation. If one knows history, one knows that depressions ( such as the great depression * ) take years and years to crawl out of. Amazingly, the current Republicans are saying that deregulation ( that caused the problem) is the way out of the problem.
I am for individual liberty. Republicans ( at least those in charge) are for deregulation and liberty for multinational corporations.



* That was caused by the unregulated 1920s.