What party would our founding fathers belong to today?

This is more than just a what if question, I am trying to see just how far off we have strayed from our roots.

I think Jefferson would without a doubt be a Libertarian.

Most of the others would be either Libertarians or Republicans. Yes I think the Republicans would be considered the left to them.

I doubt tha ANY of them could even imagaine the Democrats as they are today, except maybe Hamilton.

What do yall think

Are we assuming they still don't own slaves?

Originally posted by curme
Are we assuming they still don't own slaves?

Assume they are who they were, faults and all. I am just trying to Gauge were we stand NOW as to what they intended

Amuk,

I don't know a lot about the Libertarian Party, except a few years ago, a co-worker invited me to a meeting of the Libertarian Party.

His gripe against the Republican Party was that they pass laws that hurt the freedom of some people. He was talking abput some local laws that had been passed:

1) Forbidding any automobiles that aren't in running condition to be removed from the front yards.

2) Old appliances could not be placed in the front yards.

3) Lawns had to be kept up (mowed at least).

4) "No junk or trash" could be laying about at a persons home.

5) No mobile homes in certain neighborhoods.

His argument was that, if a person wanted to pull a mobile home into a upscale neighborhood and have trash, junked cars, tall grass and old refridgerators sitting beside the front door, they should have the right to do so withoout government interference.

My argument back to him was why should people allow a person with this mentality, come into their neighborhoods and set up a residence like the one described, and lower the value of their property.

He said that people living in nice houses with nice lawns and nice automobiles should be taught a lesson. A lesson about what? The people that live in upscale neighborhoods are most likely college educated with post-graduate degrees and high figures for their income.

The thing about this guy was he lives in a 2500 square ft. home with his lawn trimmed and rides a $20,000 Heritage Soft-tail. His wife drives a Suburban and his automobile is a late model Honda Accord. There are no junk cars, or old appliances in this guys yard. He's got a Bachelors Degree and his and his wife combined income is in the six figures.

I declined and then he tells me to go ahead and support the "soccer-moms" of America.

Hey, I can't help if people, who desire finer things in life, wouldn't want people in their neighborhoods that's going to bring down the value of their properties.

Getting back to the post though, it's my belief that our founding fathers party would be Ultra-right wing Republicans. If you want to eat, you'll go to work. If you don't want to work, then starve. That's just the way I look at things.







[edit on 6/10/04 by Intelearthling]

Personally I think our founding fathers would be disgraced by both parties. I think it would be Libertarian or Independent.

Intelearthling


You find nuts in ANY group

We believe you have the right to do as you wish with your property as long as it doesnt harm anyone else

If the people could prove that he was lowering there property values than that WOULD be causing them harm, now wouldnt it. If they cant than it aint any of their business. With Great Freedom comes Great Responsabilty.

I suggest you look futher into the Libertarians other than just a co-worker with an atitude against rich people. Most of us are so far right we make the Republicans look like commies

Try here

www.lp.org...

I think most of the Fedralists would be Republicans and most of the States rights people would be Libertarians

[edit on 6-10-2004 by Amuk]

If you look at it, the founders would have to say that the government had been changed so radically now that they'd probably not be part of any Central party, but probably a radical reform party. Income taxes? Gun Control? Protectionist Tarrifs? Membership in the United Nations (no entangeling alliances right?)? Overseas Military bases? Senators elected by, the public? I mean, the general public?

They'd probably split into two groups. Some would say governement has too much power, some would say the uneducated general public has too much power. They'd shift between fighting tyranny and preventing mobocracy.


Also, the US they knew, certainly when they were making it, were unimportant colonial backwaters surrounded by wilderness and foreign nations and populated by farmers and some city-folk. Now its, well, powerful, has global reach, and has a population that is more involved in a service economy than a production economy (well, more or less, at least it might appear that way to them).

I think that there'd be a lot of powder and peices of wigs everywhere, since I suspect several of them will have their heads explode.

Amuk..... If someone builds a million dollar home and then someone moves next door and builds a $150,000 home it would harm the property value of the million dollar home. But the person with the $150,000 did no wrong.

Originally posted by Indy
Amuk..... If someone builds a million dollar home and then someone moves next door and builds a $150,000 home it would harm the property value of the million dollar home. But the person with the $150,000 did no wrong.

But they would still be free to protest it.

I doubt a judge would rule this as lowering property values and as I said before you would have to PROVE you were harmed.

A 150000 dollar home is a lot different than a junk yard. Usually just the price of the lots alone are enough to filter out those in campers, etc.

This might make a good topic for another thread but it is kinda off topic

Jumping to the conclusion that most of them supported the Constitution they made law, I would say they would support the party whos ideals are closest to that constiution (in its proper form.), the Libertarian Party. A minority would be repblican, and even fewer socialist. From what I have read about many of them, it must be assumed that most (but not all) would breathe a sigh of relief at the freedom of blacks, and become severely depressed at the other changes made to the constitution and the way we ignore it, even in its watered down state.

Either constitutionalists or Libertarian

I think our founding fathers would have been libertarians, they were visionaries, and they saw the opportunities and the future, they also were not influecend by private interest at least at that time.

Yes......I agree with edsinger.

I think they would land in Washington, take one look round and then head off and start a new Revolution.
Im not an American but from what ive read they put individual freedoms above government. As is enshrined in the US Constitution. I may be wrong, but i think they would be appalled at how government has resticted the freedoms they fought for.

Originally posted by Janus
I think they would land in Washington, take one look round and then head off and start a new Revolution.

I think you are right. If they had such a problem with the single digit rate they were taxed at (2%, I think, but please correct me if I am wrong) imagine how they would feel about a tax rate aproaching (or exceeding, by some calculations) 50%.

In his farewall address, George Washington warned about both entangling alliances, and political parties. He probably could have made himself king, but he decided against it. WIth no precedent he retired after only serving two terms. Can you imagine a politician today who doesn't really care too much for power?

Jefferson was a radical the way. He believed the only way to preserve liberty would be a revolution every 20 years. When you consider that along with the second amendment, he was supporting the right of citizens to overthrow their government through armed struggle. WIth the government today, he would probably its armed overthrow.

Alexander Hamilton was for supporting strong American industry. I think he'd probably be a Democrat.

Originally posted by cavscout
If they had such a problem with the single digit rate they were taxed at (2%, I think, but please correct me if I am wrong) imagine how they would feel about a tax rate aproaching (or exceeding, by some calculations) 50%.

Entirely different tho. Their reasoning was that they were being taxed by a government practically on the other side of the planet, people that they weren't allowed to vote for and without any officials representing them and their districts. I agree they'd probably faint at the tax rate, but, heck, some of them would probably think that public schools are an infringment of a person's rights, or that the governements job isn't to build roads and maintain waterworks.

Originally posted by crontab
Can you imagine a politician today who doesn't really care too much for power?

Hence his being refered to as 'Cincinnatus' link

Handing back the fasces, the symbol of the authority of the state, in the other hand is his plow.

Alexander Hamilton was for supporting strong American industry. I think he'd probably be a Democrat.

He's also the Father of the National Debt, so thats kind of an ironic and unfortunate placement.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Entirely different tho. Their reasoning was that they were being taxed by a government practically on the other side of the planet, people that they weren't allowed to vote for and without any officials representing them and their districts.

This is how a VERY large portion of the country feels today, it is just not as easy a position to talk about in our modern society. A large percentage of the population of the western states feel that being taxed and regulated by a federal government thousands of miles away is wrong. Go ask someone from rural Oregon or Washington (Oregon here for 18 years) if they feel the major population centers of Portland and Sealtle properly represent them.

I agree they'd probably faint at the tax rate, but, heck, some of them would probably think that public schools are an infringment of a person's rights, or that the governements job isn't to build roads and maintain waterworks.

Many more people today feel the same way about some of those things as you suggest the framers would probably feel today then you would probably think. I, for one, feel very strongly against public schools. Those ideas that you seem to present as being silly are more common than you think.

Are yo serious? What party would they belong to? Neither. They'd pick up the weapons and attack in all directions. They'd probably put holes in a lot of us for allowing the nation to degenerate.

Originally posted by cavscout
Go ask someone from rural Oregon or Washington (Oregon here for 18 years) if they feel the major population centers of Portland and Sealtle properly represent them.

I agree I live in the backwoods of Arkansas and most of us (and the rest of the state) feel that Little Rock (our capital) might as well be on the moon as far as its representation of us gos. It is like a huge black hole that swallows our tax dollars and maybe spits out 10% to 30% back to all the rest of us.