Today's conversation with my 22 year old Nephew

Me: You better start shopping for health insurance.

Zach: Wuddaya mean? "They" just gave me health insurance.

Me: No they just enrolled you in a mandatory health insurance program. You still have to pay for it.

Zach: I can't afford to get it.

Me: You can't afford to not get it. The penalty is almost as much as the premiums.

Zach: I'm in "good shape". I don't really need it.

Me: Yeah well I'm not in such good shape. I'll need lots of it.

Zach: But I'll pay less than you, right?

Me:

reply to post by RKWWWW


Yeppers!!
As you can see by my signature, I used to be young AND dumb, I'm not young anymore.
I'd bet your Nephew will gain a bit of wisdom the second that first tax,...err penalty err whatever they are gonna call the bill, gets to him.

You guys should have the system we have in New Zealand. ACC = Accident Compensation Corporation. EVERYONE pays a few cents per $100 they earn and get healthcare BUT you don't get to sue anyone. We have a NO FAULT system. This also frees up the courts from "payment for injury cases" (or whatever you call them) because you already have your healthcare paid for. We have waiting lists but they are getting shorter as efficiencies are gained. We have Americans coming to New Zealand for knee replacement surgeries (with computer orientation tech so they get your leg back on pointed in the right direction) because we can do it at one third the price, and that includes the airfare plus they get a little NZ holiday!. We must be doing something right. If you are rich and want "instant" surgeries etc. then you can get private health insurance, but you still pay your relatively small ACC levy.

ACC Homepage - www.acc.co.nz...
ACC FAQ - www.acc.co.nz...

reply to post by RKWWWW


Shucks,
I was hoping it'd go something like this;

you; What were all you hoodlums yelling about at the Mayor's Office last night?

him; We're pissed dude. I spent 4 years in college and there's not a job left in the city...

I dont really understand the American health system... can someone please let me know the following -

- What is/was the old system? did you pay for health insurance to cover any hospital bills?
- What is this new system proposing?
- How much did it cost you guys a year if you have to pay for insurance? (approx)
- What will it cost under the new system? (approx)

Obviously don't give any personal details, just a rough guide would be good to help me understand what this is all about... thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Lucas73
You guys should have the system we have in New Zealand. ACC = Accident Compensation Corporation. EVERYONE pays a few cents per $100 they earn and get healthcare BUT you don't get to sue anyone. We have a NO FAULT system. This also frees up the courts from "payment for injury cases" (or whatever you call them) because you already have your healthcare paid for. We have waiting lists but they are getting shorter as efficiencies are gained. We have Americans coming to New Zealand for knee replacement surgeries (with computer orientation tech so they get your leg back on pointed in the right direction) because we can do it at one third the price, and that includes the airfare plus they get a little NZ holiday!. We must be doing something right. If you are rich and want "instant" surgeries etc. then you can get private health insurance, but you still pay your relatively small ACC levy.

ACC Homepage - www.acc.co.nz...
ACC FAQ - www.acc.co.nz...

Your country's health care system has undergone significant changes throughout the past several decades. Our politicians demand that we make all the mistakes possible before we do it right.

What is/was the old system? did you pay for health insurance to cover any hospital bills? - What is this new system proposing? - How much did it cost you guys a year if you have to pay for insurance? (approx)

The current system is corrupt and massively overpriced. 5 days in the hospital cost my dad $25,000. He had to take out some of his retirement fund to help pay for it.

Insurance ranges from fairly expensive to massively expensive, depending on how healthy you are, and the insurance companies are always finding criminal ways to get out of paying benefits they contractually owe, bankrupting many people.

Originally posted by II HAL II
I dont really understand the American health system... can someone please let me know the following -

- What is/was the old system? did you pay for health insurance to cover any hospital bills?
- What is this new system proposing?
- How much did it cost you guys a year if you have to pay for insurance? (approx)
- What will it cost under the new system? (approx)

Obviously don't give any personal details, just a rough guide would be good to help me understand what this is all about... thanks in advance.

1. Many people (but not all) have health insurance that pays for part or all of MD visits, medical tests, prescriptions, and hospital care. It could pay 100%, 80%, or some other percentage depending on the policy and deductible (that is, how much the insured pays out of pocket before the percentages kick in). Each plan is a different variation on this. This insurance can be paid for by the insured individual, or by the employer, or both. It is a private contract between them

2. The new system is requiring everyone (with some exceptions) to purchase insurance coverage as mandated by the federal government, or else pay a penalty to the government. If your employer doesn't provide it, the employer pays a penalty and you still have to go out yourself and get the coverage. The coverage is no longer by contract, but is going to be set by the government, and the coverage (what ills or injuries it pays for) is set by the government.

3. I pay about $190 / month for insurance for myself, with a $3000 deductible (my costs before the insurer has payment obligations) but others, families, older people etc. can pay more or less.

4. Nobody knows. But it doesn't' matter, we have to buy it no matter the cost, or pay the penalty.

5. I should note, it's #2 that's causing all the commotion: if a person *doesn't* buy insurance, they are being taxed on *not* buying the insurance - it's a tax on doing nothing. This is unheard of in the US system. This is where the flames on this thread will begin ...

Hope this helps. Obviously, this is the simplified version of a 2500 page statute.

Mike

Thanks guys, I understand a lot more now.

I can see why so many people are upset by this. Are people protesting or is there an upside to this new system?

What happens if you don't have a job or have a low income, do you still have to take out the insurance?

Originally posted by II HAL II
Thanks guys, I understand a lot more now.

I can see why so many people are upset by this. Are people protesting or is there an upside to this new system?

What happens if you don't have a job or have a low income, do you still have to take out the insurance?

There are and will be protests, plus this will have a major effect on elections at Federal, state and local levels, probably for years to come.

Some of the exceptions are income based (low income) - there will be state provided "insurance" (not really insurance technically but I digress) for the poor or uninsurable.

There are many blogs on either side of the debate than can fill in greater details and the pro/con of each

Where are you from, and how is health care paid for?

Mike

Originally posted by II HAL II
I dont really understand the American health system... can someone please let me know the following -

- What is/was the old system? did you pay for health insurance to cover any hospital bills?
- What is this new system proposing?
- How much did it cost you guys a year if you have to pay for insurance? (approx)
- What will it cost under the new system? (approx)

Obviously don't give any personal details, just a rough guide would be good to help me understand what this is all about... thanks in advance.

During the 50's and 60's free-market concessions were made to accommodate the Medicad and Medicare bills. As a result, the fundamental relationships between insurance companies and it's customers were changed. Incrementally it became worse and worse. What we have now bestows neither the benefits of the competition of the free market, NOR the benefits of a non-profit system. Conservatives want to return to some version of the pre-concession days. The Liberals want to scrap it all and move towards a single payer system.

In a nut-shell, we are victims of poorly crafted legislation.

Originally posted by LanceCorvette

Where are you from, and how is health care paid for?

Mike

I'm from England and health care is free (National Health Service)... well I say free, it's paid from our taxes. I don't think our taxes are that much higher than other countries though. I would say it's one of the few good things our government has done for it's people.

It also results in everyone getting the same care no matter who you are or how poor you are, you just turn up to a hospital and thats it, no paperwork or insurance or payments etc. You do have the option of going to a private hospital which does require an annual fee but I don't think the care you get is much different.

From what I understand, the Olympic opening ceremony is going to feature something about the NHS as they see it as something to celebrate/boast about.

Of course some people complain about the NHS but I think it's good.

reply to post by RKWWWW


Keep preaching! I don't know what i like more, what you said or this post.

This is only going to drive health care up! And increase the amount of people on Medicare.

It's a con game, kinda like college books

Originally posted by II HAL II

Originally posted by LanceCorvette

Where are you from, and how is health care paid for?

Mike

I'm from England and health care is free (National Health Service)... well I say free, it's paid from our taxes. I don't think our taxes are that much higher than other countries though. I would say it's one of the few good things our government has done for it's people.

It also results in everyone getting the same care no matter who you are or how poor you are, you just turn up to a hospital and thats it, no paperwork or insurance or payments etc. You do have the option of going to a private hospital which does require an annual fee but I don't think the care you get is much different.

From what I understand, the Olympic opening ceremony is going to feature something about the NHS as they see it as something to celebrate/boast about.

Of course some people complain about the NHS but I think it's good.

I keep up on these things. Now, I generally don't get involved with the politics on ATS (more of a conspiracy/UFO guy myself) but I would recommend that perhaps you pay closer attention over there in Britain. I've read many disturbing things about your system.

Keep cool, man.

Mike

Originally posted by RKWWWW

It sounds like a real issue you have on your hands.

The thing that would get to me is if I paid all this insurance but hardly ever used the medical services. Mind you that's the same with any type of insurance I guess.

CB328 - I'm shocked that a 5 day stay in hospital would cost $25k.... that's crazy talk... and typical of insurance companies to try and get out of paying.

Originally posted by II HAL II
Originally posted by RKWWWW

The thing that would get to me is if I paid all this insurance but hardly ever used the medical services. Mind you that's the same with any type of insurance I guess.

Man, you're from England - you should understand insurance because it mostly started there! It started with the shipping companies figuring out a way to recover something when ships are lost at sea. Lloyds of London?

In it's purest form, it's risk allocation - who is going to pay for a known, potential loss - me? or the insurer. If the ship returns, the insurer keeps the premium and makes a tidy profit. If the ship is lost, the insurer pays for the cost of the ship and cargo, and loses money. But it's all a calculation of potential risk (e.g., 10% of ships to India were lost, so what is our potential loss and what should our premium be?)

Personally, If I never spend more than $3000 / year in medical expenses, then I lose for having paid all that money to the insurer in premiums because they've agreed to pay 80% of any medical expense I incur over $3,000.

But if I spend $25,000 in five days,(which would be catastrophic financially to me) the insurer loses that bet because I only paid $190 to them for them to assume that risk that month. I will pay the first $3,000, and they will pay 80% of $22,000.

Trust me, the insurance companies have hundreds of actuaries over hundreds of years doing these calculations - they know better than anyone (like bookies!)

Single payer (like you have in Britain) OTOH is not risk allocation, it's resource allocation. We have $10,000,00 (or Pounds) to spend every year on health care for everybody, now, how do we allocate it?

To me, that's a scarier proposition - having some bureaucrat determining what health care expenses will be paid for, and which won't.

Mike

Originally posted by LanceCorvette

I keep up on these things. Now, I generally don't get involved with the politics on ATS (more of a conspiracy/UFO guy myself) but I would recommend that perhaps you pay closer attention over there in Britain. I've read many disturbing things about your system.

Politics is never a good thing to discuss over a forum.

Although you may have read disturbing things, I've used the system first hand and I know many people that have too, I can assure you it works, although probably not as good as America's but then again I don't have to pay thousands for it.... and that's probably why you see disturbing stories about our system, to keep you paying that insurance.

The UK government know how much is required to spend on the service and you will find that health care is not rationed, after all, the UK has a higher average life expectancy than America.

I guess there will never be a perfect system.... hope you guys the best on this.

Well, from what I have read my wife's insurance should go way down because of the law. She currently pays over $1500 a year for health insurance for her alone. Apparently the new law will lower that $500 a year and that is with me on her insurance too. If that is the case, it may be a good law. My kids grew up without insurance because it would have cost me $485 a month for it. That is more than I have ever been able to afford. They did without and I never paid anything on the $5,000 bill for one of my kid's appendectomy. Nor did I pay the $1,000 for his cast when he broke his hand, or the $1,000 when he dislocated his thumb. My other son has NEVER BEEN TO A DOCTOR OR DENTIST because he never had an emergency and I could never afford to pay a doctor.

When my blood pressure went through the roof I found the cheapest doctor around and she charged me $100 per visit. I quit going because I could not afford to keep up appointments. Then I had a stroke and had to go back to her to get blood pressure pills again. This time the bill was $0. Since I am poor. I asked why and the very rude receptionist said it was Obamacare. I kinda like that idea.

But will I pay hundreds a month for insurance? If someone will give me a job that makes me able to afford it I would. Otherwise, no, no I won't.

That is what we have in the USA.

I have an idea. Since its so damned expensive for everyone to have a healthcare plan, and since FORCING a person to bankrupt themselves to do so is morally objectionable, why not have EVERYONE pay, as part of the taxation system, a very small amount per year, and have the STATE run the damned hospitals, and the doctors surgeries? Why not make medicine and access to it, a basic right of every citizen??

reply to post by TrueBrit


Because that would make too much sense. Can't have sensible things in government. That would kill them to do something that makes sense. It has to be too complicated and have loop holes so the rich won't have to pay. Otherwise the idiots in congress can't understand it.