Businesses: What layoffs do you plan due to Obamacare?

Now everyone has to pay up to cover those who can't afford healthcare.

Businesses have to pay a tax (fine) or pay for healthcare for everyone working for their business. Things are tight, and for most businesses not much cash is left over after expenses.

Government takes all the money they want from your business, ironically you as the owner can't take all you want, you get the leftover cash.

Businesses who have over 50 employees must provide healthcare coverage or pay a fee.

Questions:
How will Obamacare taxes affect your hiring plans?
Are you planning to layoff more people now due to fines or the resulting increased costs of Obamacare?

This doesn't sound good for the unemployment rate.

One more question:

Will it be cheaper now to hire people in overseas offices than in the US?

I'd imagine that people will work around it so small businesses employing around 90 people will split their business into 2 legal entities so each only has 45 employee's and stop paying insurance for staff

alot of small businesses cant be offshored as how to you offshore a grocery clerk etc as they're more direct service generally

once the accountants/lawyers etc have had a good read of it i'm sure there will be loop holes just waiting to be used

I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.

You want a real business model that promotes equality for all and turns out a great profit in the end because of HIGH QUALITY labor and HIGH QUALITY products?
Look at Porsche. www.ft.com...

Take care of your employees and understand that they are Americans and if you want America to succeed, you need to invest in AMERICANS.

Originally posted by Wooster
I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.

You want a real business model that promotes equality for all and turns out a great profit in the end because of HIGH QUALITY labor and HIGH QUALITY products?
Look at Porsche. www.ft.com...

Take care of your employees and understand that they are Americans and if you want America to succeed, you need to invest in AMERICANS.

Well said!

Originally posted by Wooster
I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.

You want a real business model that promotes equality for all and turns out a great profit in the end because of HIGH QUALITY labor and HIGH QUALITY products?
Look at Porsche. www.ft.com...

Take care of your employees and understand that they are Americans and if you want America to succeed, you need to invest in AMERICANS.

just how do you think businesses make money? Hard enough to compete with the corporate giants and now i don't pay my employees enough? People from the left are just crazy I'm not gonna work my tail off to pay for everyone that doesn't have drive to succeed in life. I started out sharing a 2 bedroom trailer with 4 siblings and my parents in the stupidest public schools in the union I worked for what i got and im not going to give it away. Everybody wants a frigging handout.

To the op I will not be firing anyone just giving them pay cuts and splitting the cost of a plan.

Originally posted by Shaiker

Originally posted by Wooster
I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.

You want a real business model that promotes equality for all and turns out a great profit in the end because of HIGH QUALITY labor and HIGH QUALITY products?
Look at Porsche. www.ft.com...

Take care of your employees and understand that they are Americans and if you want America to succeed, you need to invest in AMERICANS.

just how do you think businesses make money? Hard enough to compete with the corporate giants and now i don't pay my employees enough? People from the left are just crazy I'm not gonna work my tail off to pay for everyone that doesn't have drive to succeed in life. I started out sharing a 2 bedroom trailer with 4 siblings and my parents in the stupidest public schools in the union I worked for what i got and im not going to give it away. Everybody wants a frigging handout.

To the op I will not be firing anyone just giving them pay cuts and splitting the cost of a plan.

This is essentially saying that my employees are beneath me because I own the business. You are saying your employees aren't worth a damn and that somehow you worked harder than them to get where you are.
Show respect for your employees. You have the right to hire the best employees you can get, people whom you respect and people who have skills and talents. By all means, hire them. And respect their talents and pay them enough to get by and take care of their families.

This means taking some profits out of your pocket to help the good of your business. Not to mention employees who are taken care of produce more and produce higher quality goods and services, therefore you are investing in your business. Why do you think that the American car companies failed? They chose cheap labor and cheap materials to build cheap cars that no one wanted because the owners of the company were looking for the cheapest possible bottom line. Now they're out of business. You'd think we would have learned the lessons that these companies have made.

I am not "left". I'm not anything. I'm an independent. I vote for a candidate not based upon their party but based upon their policy.

reply to post by Dbriefed


I think you're just blowing this whole thing out of the water like everyone else opposed to this plan/

I'd suggest reading up on the facts but most people here will take what they read in the media as gospel instead of doing their own research.

reply to post by Dbriefed

Questions:
How will Obamacare taxes affect your hiring plans?
Are you planning to layoff more people now due to fines or the resulting increased costs of Obamacare?

This doesn't sound good for the unemployment rate.

One more question:

Will it be cheaper now to hire people in overseas offices than in the US?

The employer isn't going to have to PAY for this themselves, they are going to have the employees pay by taking the premiums out of their paycheck.

So, back to the same threat we have had to deal with for the past 3 years? "Do what we say or we lay off more people."

Conservative business owners in this country have artificially slowed the recovery because of petty party politics. They don't like Obama, so for the past 3 years they have done everything they can to bully this government into doing everything they want with the looming and ever present threat of more layoffs over our heads.

And we all know this one is a lie, because most of us with employer insurance plans know that the employer doesn't pay for it, we do. The money comes out of OUR paychecks to pay for it, not the employers pockets.

This Atlas Shrugged business model in this country has to stop. This is hurting our economy, our recovery, and it's taking away the American dream from millions of hard working Americans.

You think it's the government that is causing layoffs? It's not the government that's the problem, its petty party politics that's the problem, it's conservative business owners that are the problem.

What kind of business with over 50 employees doesn't provide insurance. Do they pay enough for the employees to buy their own insurance.

The reason employers pay insurance was because in the 30 or 40s there were wage freezes and insurance was the incentive to get someone to work for you, it stuck. That is how employers got in to the healthcare business in the first place -- that is what the right wants to keep. Now you are saying that there are business that are relatively large that are not paying health care and are not paying their people enough to buy insurance --- screw em.

Conversely -- how many people will START businesses now that they can get insurance with out having to work for someone else. I know that that has stopped a lot of my acquaintances even thought they had pretty good business plans. If you get laid off from a company because of the health care reform -- the company was pretty much screwing you anyway.

My mother works for a small insurance company that is locally owned. They provide auto, home, life and health. She said they are VERY worried because it is a big chunk of their business that is going to be gone. These are real people that are going to be hurt by this bill. Not large corporations as a lot of people would like us to believe. This trickles down to the average person in average towns.

reply to post by Dbriefed


You think these businesses want to pay unemployment insurance and get nothing out of workers happy to collect for as long as it is being handed out. They don't care that it isn't full pay. It's free. It's for nothing and they'll get a part time job doing something they prefer to do anyway just to supplement the unemployment checks. I wonder how it is ever NOT in an employers best interest to keep his staff healthy and fit?

Originally posted by Wooster

Originally posted by Shaiker

Originally posted by Wooster
I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.

You want a real business model that promotes equality for all and turns out a great profit in the end because of HIGH QUALITY labor and HIGH QUALITY products?
Look at Porsche. www.ft.com...

Take care of your employees and understand that they are Americans and if you want America to succeed, you need to invest in AMERICANS.

just how do you think businesses make money? Hard enough to compete with the corporate giants and now i don't pay my employees enough? People from the left are just crazy I'm not gonna work my tail off to pay for everyone that doesn't have drive to succeed in life. I started out sharing a 2 bedroom trailer with 4 siblings and my parents in the stupidest public schools in the union I worked for what i got and im not going to give it away. Everybody wants a frigging handout.

To the op I will not be firing anyone just giving them pay cuts and splitting the cost of a plan.

This is essentially saying that my employees are beneath me because I own the business. You are saying your employees aren't worth a damn and that somehow you worked harder than them to get where you are.
Show respect for your employees. You have the right to hire the best employees you can get, people whom you respect and people who have skills and talents. By all means, hire them. And respect their talents and pay them enough to get by and take care of their families.

This means taking some profits out of your pocket to help the good of your business. Not to mention employees who are taken care of produce more and produce higher quality goods and services, therefore you are investing in your business. Why do you think that the American car companies failed? They chose cheap labor and cheap materials to build cheap cars that no one wanted because the owners of the company were looking for the cheapest possible bottom line. Now they're out of business. You'd think we would have learned the lessons that these companies have made.

I am not "left". I'm not anything. I'm an independent. I vote for a candidate not based upon their party but based upon their policy.

edit on 29-6-2012 by Wooster because: (no reason given)

[/quote







I understand about businesses under 50 not providing health insurance for their employees and for people being mad about it, but I worked for a large corporation with health benefits and also for a small company without them and let me tell you I enjoyed working for the small business so much more than the Corp! I can't say for all small businesses but I was treated very well and the owners were very thankful for our help. We also got personal support, they listened to our ideas, praise was plentiful and there wasn't as much stress. I did not dread getting up in the morning. But then the business went bankrupt, forced out by a much bigger retailer. We were a family. Corporations, in my opinion, are only out for profit and don't care squat about its people. In the retail industry most people make barely above the minimum wage.

Originally posted by Wooster
I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.

You want a real business model that promotes equality for all and turns out a great profit in the end because of HIGH QUALITY labor and HIGH QUALITY products?
Look at Porsche. www.ft.com...

Take care of your employees and understand that they are Americans and if you want America to succeed, you need to invest in AMERICANS.

This is an awesome post.

reply to post by newcovenant


Agreed! Now OP has been shown the error of it's ways. But, that is why it posted this thread because, it could feel the hollowness of itself and was aching to see the Light-as it shall be...

Originally posted by TheTardis
My mother works for a small insurance company that is locally owned. They provide auto, home, life and health. She said they are VERY worried because it is a big chunk of their business that is going to be gone. These are real people that are going to be hurt by this bill. Not large corporations as a lot of people would like us to believe. This trickles down to the average person in average towns.

It is not a problem for you with off shoring labor, or manufacturing, or software programing. Things change, things evolve - this was a 100 years in the making. The healthcare bill does not cut out insurance companies-not certain how it will affect the brokerages. The very act of setting up insurance exchanges in the states, will create new jobs in the insurance industry.

I got my start in computers with LEON's Typewriter repair in Rochester New York. I wonder how the Typewriter repair business is in Rochester. On the other hand I went from Typewriters to Senior Network Engineer. Like I said things do change.

Originally posted by spyder550

Originally posted by TheTardis
My mother works for a small insurance company that is locally owned. They provide auto, home, life and health. She said they are VERY worried because it is a big chunk of their business that is going to be gone. These are real people that are going to be hurt by this bill. Not large corporations as a lot of people would like us to believe. This trickles down to the average person in average towns.

It is not a problem for you with off shoring labor, or manufacturing, or software programing. Things change, things evolve - this was a 100 years in the making. The healthcare bill does not cut out insurance companies-not certain how it will affect the brokerages. The very act of setting up insurance exchanges in the states, will create new jobs in the insurance industry.

I got my start in computers with LEON's Typewriter repair in Rochester New York. I wonder how the Typewriter repair business is in Rochester. On the other hand I went from Typewriters to Senior Network Engineer. Like I said things do change.

edit on 29-6-2012 by spyder550 because: (no reason given)

Ahh... But that is where you are wrong. I am in the same industry and use to work with a tech that started on Typewriters and moved up. That is "Evolving" not "Change". Obama is trying to "Change" the industry which will hurt a lot of people. If it were allowed to "Evolve" the people and businesses could "Evolve" with it just as you were allowed to do. We needed some reform. Not a complete Change.

Originally posted by Shaiker

just how do you think businesses make money? Hard enough to compete with the corporate giants and now i don't pay my employees enough? People from the left are just crazy I'm not gonna work my tail off to pay for everyone that doesn't have drive to succeed in life. I started out sharing a 2 bedroom trailer with 4 siblings and my parents in the stupidest public schools in the union I worked for what i got and im not going to give it away. Everybody wants a frigging handout.

To the op I will not be firing anyone just giving them pay cuts and splitting the cost of a plan.

So how many people are you employing??? It is a fair question.

Originally posted by TheTardis

Originally posted by spyder550

Originally posted by TheTardis
My mother works for a small insurance company that is locally owned. They provide auto, home, life and health. She said they are VERY worried because it is a big chunk of their business that is going to be gone. These are real people that are going to be hurt by this bill. Not large corporations as a lot of people would like us to believe. This trickles down to the average person in average towns.

It is not a problem for you with off shoring labor, or manufacturing, or software programing. Things change, things evolve - this was a 100 years in the making. The healthcare bill does not cut out insurance companies-not certain how it will affect the brokerages. The very act of setting up insurance exchanges in the states, will create new jobs in the insurance industry.

I got my start in computers with LEON's Typewriter repair in Rochester New York. I wonder how the Typewriter repair business is in Rochester. On the other hand I went from Typewriters to Senior Network Engineer. Like I said things do change.

edit on 29-6-2012 by spyder550 because: (no reason given)

Ahh... But that is where you are wrong. I am in the same industry and use to work with a tech that started on Typewriters and moved up. That is "Evolving" not "Change". Obama is trying to "Change" the industry which will hurt a lot of people. If it were allowed to "Evolve" the people and businesses could "Evolve" with it just as you were allowed to do. We needed some reform. Not a complete Change.

So what is the agent of evolution? Right now the whole medical industry / insurance complex is eating us alive. All the while providing us with more cost and decreasing care.

We now have a program that does cater to the private interests in this industry. Modeled much like many of the Scandinavian countries. I think the insurance companies should be taken out of the loop completely -- they are expensive overhead, and have no incentive whatsoever in controlling costs.

Doing nothing would be very costly to the nation as a whole -- that is an argument that anyone who understands the problem will not contest. To do nothing and just pretend the system that we created will fix itself - is truly idiotic.

Most bankruptcy in the US are caused by medical debt. What about those families, how long do they have to wait for evolution. What is the travesty in telling kids who has had asthma all through childhood that they can actually get insurance now even though they have a controlled pre-existing condition. How is it bad to tax freeloaders who would not bother with insurance because they know that they won't be turned down at the hospital.

I was shocked at the cost of a stay in the hospital I had a couple of weeks ago. 4 days in ICU for pain control 3 days in hospital for observation. I had a ladder fail and broke 5 ribs. I did not plan for that to happen it was a 100% accident. The cost 33,000.00 I'm lucky I have and employer who provides insurance. There is no treatment or surgery or therapy for broken ribs so the 33,000.00 was probably on the low side of a visit to the hospital for an accident.

I am sorry for people who are affected businesswise - but everyone has a story and everyone has legitimate needs.

This change is how things evolve, and it is long overdue.

Originally posted by Wooster
I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.

You want a real business model that promotes equality for all and turns out a great profit in the end because of HIGH QUALITY labor and HIGH QUALITY products?
Look at Porsche. www.ft.com...

Take care of your employees and understand that they are Americans and if you want America to succeed, you need to invest in AMERICANS.

People don't start their own businesses and hire other people to enrich the lives of their employees.

People take the gigantic risk of going into business for themselves for one simple reason: to make a PROFIT.

I own 2 businesses, and employ a total of 8 people. I have 3 full time employees and the other 5 are part time, once in a while I will utilize them as I would a full time employee.

6 years ago, when I put up THOUSANDS of dollars of my own money to get started, I didn't do so with the mindset of "hey now I can hire other people and make their lives better too", I did it because I was tired of working for other people, and made the determination that working for myself was necessary in order for me to be happier in life. It was the best decision I have ever made.

That being said, my employees, while I value them and consider them friends, are not irreplaceable. If any one of them is unhappy, they are free to leave and seek employment elsewhere. I pay them what I think they are worth, and if they do a good job, I throw bonuses, either in the form of cash or material goods at them as a thank you.

As a business owner, I have no obligation to pay them an amount other people would deem a "good wage", nor do I have an obligation to provide insurance for them. By federal law, I would be required to pay them minimum wage, but I do pay much more than that, because they are worth it. My family and I live a very nice life, with some of that being because of my employees. I reward them for their hard work, and I must not suck too bad as an employer because all of my employees have been with me since the beginning.

Business owners are the favorite punching bag of just about everyone, from employees to the schizophrenics known as politicians. That needs to end.

You people that are FOR this plan and think it is a good thing, I want you to print out your posts and put them up on your wall. We will see if you still feel the same way about it in a few years.


"Be careful for what you wish for as you may just get it"