The human animal and diet

A while back I was watching a documentary about crocodiles in Australia which were drowning found floating upside-down in a river. At first is was suspected that pollutants were responsible but when they tested the water they could not find any. Then they suspected a virus, bacteria or fungus but it all came back negative.
After some time they found the answer. A new species of fish had been introduced into the area and the crocodiles had changed what they were eating. These new fish had less Thiamine in them and the result was a thiamine deficiency which lead to brain dysfunction and eventual drowning.

This got me thinking about how all animals on this planet have a natural diet and how illness resulted when they deviate from this. I started to think about humans and what our natural diet might be.

After some thought I concluded that based on the teeth of a human(absence of large canines),low jaw pressure, lack of camouflage and lack of weapons i.e. claws, humans could not have been designed to catch and eat other animals.

What I’m saying is that in my opinion humans cannot be compared to any carnivore on this planet. It is very clear nature never designed us as meat eaters.

Next I thought about how we use weapons to hunt animals and fire to cook meat but there must have been a time when humans had neither learned to make weapons or fire.
The question then is could a human bring down a wild animal with his bare hands? Is he fast enough or physically strong enough? Even if a human could do this which in my opinion is very doubtful could he eat, rip with his bare hands and teeth raw hide and meat. I think that a human could not eat this as it would be too tough and chewie. Would the taste of raw meat be pleasing to most humans? I think the answer would be no.

Finally I concluded that based on my understanding humans did not eat meat until they discovered fire by which time most of their physical evolution had taken place i.e. humans never evolved as meat eaters and it was an unnatural development.

Analysis of human saliva has also confirmed that its enzyme makeup is that of a vegetable eating animal and not similar to the enzyme profile found in carnivores.

I also concluded that when humans started eating meat the resulting drastic change in diet caused damage to the digestive system of humans. The appendix atrophied and shrunk and humans were left in a position which we are still left in today.

The damage to our digestive system means we cannot extract protein efficiently from raw vegetable matter and cannot breakdown the fibers in plant matter efficiently anymore.

The damage was done and it cannot be reverted. A human is left in a condition whereby they cannot be a 100% vegetarian and be physically strong ie build muscle easily as in the past.

Lets think of a gorilla for example. People say that 100% vegetarians cant build muscle or are not strong. Would you be willing to go into a cage with a gorilla to test that theory…probably not!

But I guess its true when it comes to humans because we have damaged our digestive system and whilst a gorilla can be muscular just from eating veg there is no way we can under normal circumstances anymore.

The result of this I think is that humans now need to eat a quantity of meat for optimal strength and performance. I would say however that our natural diet is largely vegetable based with a small amount of meat.

The atkins diet (an all meat diet)would be completely against your nature and result in multiple health problems long term.

Essentially then humans are natural vegetarians and to go against your natural diet WILL cause illness , loss of health and shortening of life expectancy. Just because you are a human and have free will dose not mean you can go against the natural order of things without consequences to your health.

Let me put it another way if an alien came down and took a human off for biological analysis they would conclude that based on the physical structure of a human, the analysis of the digestive system and chemical analysis of saliva that this animal eats a diet of vegetable matter.

Basically all those things you eat that are unnatural your body recognises as toxins and a build-up of these toxins causes intolerance, inflammatory diseases etc. Humans never drank cows milk until they started to farm this is why some people are lactose intolerant ie your body knows it is unnatural. Same goes for wheat flour and many things in our diet. Eating these things results in inflammatory diseases over time because the body knows this stuff is not part of your natural diet.

reply to post by LUXUS
I'm not sure about you, but perhaps someone should invent the 'mana' of the bible. I hate cooking.

Humans are a nature of their own. Our intelligence allows us to hunt and consume animals. As far as evolution is concerned, we probably shouldn't be here as we are. Something happened to cause the human brain to become what it is, but the rest of the body didn't catch up. Perhaps.

But even a gorilla will eat meat if no other food is available. That's probably what happened to humans (think ice age), we just got used to it. I guess it's time we evolved.

First of all, people are lactose intolerant due to pasteurization. Most people with lactose intolerance can drink raw milk with out any problems.

You say we damaged ourselves but I would say we adapted if that was the case. However people didn't need to develop claws or faster running speed because we could use our brains to come up with other methods of obtaining meat.

Gorillas are omnivores just like we are.

reply to post by AdamsMurmur

I think you are missing the point. You are not capable of physically bringing down a wild animal with your bare hands. Your not fast enough or strong enough. Unlike all carnivores you lack any weapon ie venom, claws, sharp teeth. Basically you cant take down an animal without a weapon and there was a time when humans had not yet learned to use weapons. Naturally you have to ask yourself what did you eat before we discovered weapons and fire…the only answer could be vegetable matter, its obvious.

There is something seriously wrong with humans when you think about it. How many other animals do you know that are naked? Its as though nature never physically designed us for life on this planet…maybe that’s the answer

If we were supposed to eat only bunny food how do you explain our need for vitamin B12 (sourced from meat)
VITAMIN B-12 or the existence of our K-9 teeth designed to rip meat?
brice

reply to post by LUXUS


Why are you not capable of getting an animal with your bare hands? I am. There are a whole host of insects which provide "meat" as well. Your theory is not well thought out.

reply to post by brice

Insects! Well for those who evolved in less hot climates insects are only present half the year round. As for catching a wild animal with your bare hands! Can you catch a fish with your bare hands? Can you rundown a wild buffalo grab it and take it to the ground with your bare hands? Even small rodents pose a huge problem to catch with bare hands due to their speed and sensitivity. Our canines are pathetic, they are not even comparable to those of animals. Our teeth are not cemented to the jaw as strongly as in carnivores and we lack the jaw pressure to cut and uncooked raw hide with our teeth. Humans often will loose a tooth biting into a toffee apple ! As for vit B12 I think you will find that the cow you got it from did not eat meat in order to obtain it! It is obtained from bacteria which cling to root vegetables (unwashed).

Speaking as someone with difficult to control epilepsy...if I attempted a vegetarian diet, I would quickly be dead. I myself have to stick to the ketogenic diet...which is even more extreme than the atkin's.

In fact my body gets at least 85% of it's energy from meat, and animal fat. Your body is entirely capable of fueling itself in this way. That, in fact, is the primary function of your liver. One caveat though, is that producing energy from ketones is harder on my liver than other diets. As a result I am encouraged to avoid alchohol consumtion.

Originally posted by Shark_Feeder
Speaking as someone with difficult to control epilepsy...if I attempted a vegetarian diet, I would quickly be dead. I myself have to stick to the ketogenic diet...which is even more extreme than the atkin's.

In fact my body gets at least 85% of it's energy from meat, and animal fat. Your body is entirely capable of fueling itself in this way. That, in fact, is the primary function of your liver. One caveat though, is that producing energy from ketones is harder on my liver than other diets. As a result I am encouraged to avoid alchohol consumtion.

It is also fact that excess meat eating increases your chances of cancer. In the end you can eat what you like but that don’t mean its actually good for you. The only proper diet for a human is the one that it evolved on. Just for the record I do eat meat but my diet is mostly vegetable/fruit and as much as possible uncooked raw vegetables. Its not a question of what you like eating, its more about what you are supposed to eat.

Studies show that people who eat too much meat are 20 percent more likely to develop cancer, especially if they eat a lot of red meat. Pancreatic cancer, in particular, has been linked to heavy meat consumption. Meat also contains lots of saturated fat and cholesterol, which can lead to heart disease. Processed meats, such as hot dogs, often contain nitrate, a preservative that may become carcinogenic when heated to high temperatures during the cooking process. All meats may form carcinogenic heterocylic amines, or HCAs, during high-temperature cooking. Marinading meat in vinegar, or microwaving it before cooking, can help reduce the number of carcinogenic HCAs in meat. However, meat may also contain high levels of hormones, which can trigger reproductive problems and early-onset puberty in children. Your kidneys work to remove excess protein from your body, so eating too much protein can stress them out, leading to kidney damage and even contributing to renal failure in some cases. High dietary protein levels cause your body to excrete more calcium, which can contribute to osteoporosis.

www.fitday.com...

reply to post by LUXUS


If I changed my diet I would likely be dead in less than five years...so maybe I have simply evolved differently than most.

Please no one take my diet as a general example though, I have special medical needs. I have to worry about my nervous system's functioning. I am definately a little different than most folks.

I guess my point is: I believe the human digestive system is adapted with numerous tools, and organs to make something useful out of nearly anything natural. We are tough creatures.

I would honestly eat a well rounded diet, but I hate seizing in a hospital bed for a week; then having to ask when it became 2012...because you swear to God it's actually 2010. Not to mention, when did I get divorced?

Hi OP.....many years ago I read something (sorry I really don't remember what it was) that stated the same thing.....that we are not meant to be meat eaters. (talked about the enzymes missing in humans that break down the meat in our system). The writer also said that if humans were meant to eat meat, we would crave raw meat as animals do.
I have often thought that humans have no natural habitat on earth......and tend to wonder if we really are FROM earth, lol.
I tried telling friends what I had read (and also concluded on my own), and no one was really interested. From that experience I don't expect you will get much support for this theory, but I am definitely interested in hearing from anyone else who may agree.
jacygirl

In response to your question if raw meat would be pleasing? Yes,it is. I love to eat raw meat, especially beef. Raw fish is not too bad either. Many meats when salted and dried are very tasty. Our bodies are designed to be omnivorous. We do have canines to tear flesh, as well as teeth designed for cutting of fless, while relatively few molars for crushing and grinding plant material. I think it has even been said that it is because we developed the skills and tools to increase our consumption of meat that we evolved higher brain function, giving us the ability to think at a higer level than just survival such as the gorilla. With that trian of thought, spirituality would not exist if we did not take up the spear and hunt. To use spirituality to condemn such a practice now seems a bit hypocritical, in my opinion.

Here is one problem people have in coming to this conclusion and I would say it mostly applies to men. Men think there is something masculine about hunting, cooking and eating meat....this is very well known and every woman knows this. At the same time there is something less masculine about being a vegetarian in the mind of a man…it’s a totally retarded way of thinking but this IS how men think on average.

The average man likes to picture himself as a hunter rather then the truth which should be plain to see with your eyes. You are not a predator whether you like it or not, you simply are not. There is nothing about your physical makeup which would bring someone to the conclusion that you were designed to stalk and kill animals. Your sense of smell is pathetic as is your hearing, you have no camouflage, you are slow in comparison to every other animal, you lack the strength and speed, you even lack the enzyme makeup of a carnivore.

If you were truly a predator you would have evolved like every other animal on this planet with these things.

Another thing if humans were designed to hunt they would have forward facing ears like all other predators. Predators can rotate their ears to focus on their prey. All herbivores on the other hand have sideways facing ears to listen out for approaching predators…see you even have the sideways facing ears of a herbivore!

This is an absolutely wonderful post. I have tried stressing this to friends and family multiple times but they simply label me as unhealthy and crazy, despite my clean diet. Even if you wan to support this with religion, Adam and Eve were in a garden, not hunting. My two cents, great post.

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by AdamsMurmur

 

I think you are missing the point. You are not capable of physically bringing down a wild animal with your bare hands. Your not fast enough or strong enough. Unlike all carnivores you lack any weapon ie venom, claws, sharp teeth. Basically you cant take down an animal without a weapon and there was a time when humans had not yet learned to use weapons. Naturally you have to ask yourself what did you eat before we discovered weapons and fire…the only answer could be vegetable matter, its obvious.

You're right. Technological evolution took the place of biological evolution. You can't really deny that.

Oh...and we may be physically incapable to take down an animal with out bare hands, but we're also physically incapable of digesting the most abundant plant food on the planet. Unlike most of our closest herbivorous neighbors, we lack the digestive system to harness energy from abundant plant sources.

I mean, if you want to talk about wild/evolutionarily speaking, there's no way a group of hunter/gatherers evolving can thrive on a plant-based diet. There's just not enough calories to go around.

Originally posted by LUXUS

It is also fact that excess meat eating increases your chances of cancer.

Absolutely incredible. The research abound is littered ambiguity and horrible science. Almost EVERY study that even suggests meat as a killer is observational in nature, meaning there is no arrow of causation. And understand that there are plenty of large studies that refute the idea that meat consumption is bad for one's health.

In fact, the same ketogenic diet that the poster referring to is a very successful treatment for cancer:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.coloradocyberknife.com...
www.cancercenter.com...:Google:Google%20-%20Western%20Content:L ung+Brain+Tumors:lung+brain+tumor:Broad&OVMTC=content&site=www.livestrong.com&creative=7612362561&OVKEY=lung%20brain%20tumor&url_id=129231421&adpos=no ne&gclid=CIehz8qs77ACFalgTAodIgPqxQ

Originally posted by LUXUS
Here is one problem people have in coming to this conclusion and I would say it mostly applies to men. Men think there is something masculine about hunting, cooking and eating meat....this is very well known and every woman knows this. At the same time there is something less masculine about being a vegetarian in the mind of a man…it’s a totally retarded way of thinking but this IS how men think on average.

Interesting theory you have posted. I do agree that meat eating is something thought of as a masculine trait. My boyfriend being a prime example. He loves eating meat. He loves his steak and if it were up to him, he would have one with every meal. He's the type of macho guy that wouldnt be caught eating a sandwich and he hates vegetables and fruits. However, he has to take all these vitamins to replace what he is missing out on and he takes about 20 at night. Ill never understand his behavior but I have a feeling he's going to be encountering some major health problems down the road. He's already suffered two heart attacks at a young age but he continues eating this "Atkins" diet thing. I really wish I could help him but I cant. Ive tried to the point that he got mad at me for even trying to get him to change.

I do think that consuming meat should be at a minimum and definitely not in excess.

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd

You're right. Technological evolution took the place of biological evolution. You can't really deny that.

Oh...and we may be physically incapable to take down an animal with out bare hands, but we're also physically incapable of digesting the most abundant plant food on the planet. Unlike most of our closest herbivorous neighbors, we lack the digestive system to harness energy from abundant plant sources.

I mean, if you want to talk about wild/evolutionarily speaking, there's no way a group of hunter/gatherers evolving can thrive on a plant-based diet. There's just not enough calories to go around.

Ok here is the problem I have with what you just wrote, you agree that humans are incapable of taking down a wild animal without using a weapon of some kind. You also understand that the biological evolution of man took place before the technological evolution. So from this one would conclude that humans existed before they started making weapons and since you agree that a human cant hunt a wild animal without a weapon then logically they could not have been eating meat prior to this technological evolution.

Instead of coming to that conclusion however you make a u-turn and finish by saying humans could not have lived on a vegetarian diet...that statement completely contradicts your other two observations which btw were correct!

You see there is a physiological block that comes down, humans just cant accept that they have evolved from a pure vegetarian to omnivorous creature.

Originally posted by LUXUS
Instead of coming to that conclusion however you make a u-turn and finish by saying humans could not have lived on a vegetarian diet...that statement completely contradicts your other two observations which btw were correct!

Oh jeez. So... EVOLUTION is change over time. In the early stages of human evolution, it's likely we were indeed mostly herbivorous. However, at some point, we began eating meat (paleoanthropological evidence is pretty clear on this) and so the evolution began. We're talking about thousands of generations.

Nowhere did I say we were incapable, rather that we are.

You see there is a physiological block that comes down, humans just cant accept that they have evolved from a pure vegetarian to omnivorous creature.

You got it! Well, sort of got it. Because we don't really know if the ape like creature from which we evolved was pure vegetarian or not. But, regardless, it's an irrelevant point. It'd be like saying we should be scavengers because bacteria eat nutrients from dead things.

What matters is what we've eaten in our relatively recent evolutionary past. Say, for instance, over the past couple hundred-thousand years.